Speculation: Matt Duchene Thread Part... Just get a trade done already

Status
Not open for further replies.

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,791
3,994
Colorado
Well Galchenyuk + 1st + good prospect is not really insane depending on the prospect...

I wouldn't trade him to MTL for anything less either...

Galchenyuk really does not fit what the Avs want and the MTL media is already out for blood.
There is no way in hell the Avs do it straight up..

And what else aside from a 1st or/and prospects could MB offer to sweeten the deal and make Sakic settle for something he really does not want?


@IWSAMG:

That stupid narrative has to die.

No Duchenes value won't go up because he can sign an extension...
Not gonna happen.

Yeah Carolina might be very interested if he will agree to an extension as part of the deal.
But the Avs can't allow them to discuss it beforehand and there is no chance the Canes will give up Hanifin unless Duchene is signed to a sweet heart contract longterm as part of the deal...
Which really has 0 chance of happening.
Especially because again. The Avs can't allow them to even discuss it or it would kill all their leverage if the trade falls apart..

They will offer more or less the same package of futures they are probably offering now if they think there is a high chance that he will extend.

If they don't believe that he is a good bet to extend, the offers will get way worse....

Duchene has to be traded in the next few months.
Everything else would be just another pathetic chapter in the life of our godawful GM that needs to be sacked asap...

What narrative? It's something that could plausibly happen, even if it's unlikely. Maybe it's not Hanifin, maybe it's Fleury. Maybe it's another young LHD who makes strides this season. Maybe a team misses the playoffs and is willing to give up their low percentage lottery pick before the 2018 draft. Maybe the Avs win the lottery, get Dahlin, and don't need to focus on LHD so much. There's a hundred different unlikely outcomes that could still happen at some point before next off season.

Also, if the offers are going to be the same, more or less, what's the rush? To avoid all risks, no matter how probable they actually are? That's the kind of thinking that results in mediocrity. I'd rather have a GM that aims for the stars and misses than one who aims much lower and hits.
 

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
13,671
4,116
That stupid narrative has to die

Well. They really can't allow them to discuss a contract.

Can you look the other way if Brisson has some contact with someone associated with the Canes?
Yeah.. Maybe...

Can you afford to let them officially talk contract and have Duchene agree to a deal with them?
Hell no. Way too risky...

What narrative? It's something that could plausibly happen, even if it's unlikely. Maybe it's not Hanifin, maybe it's Fleury. Maybe it's another young LHD who makes strides this season. Maybe a team misses the playoffs and is willing to give up their low percentage lottery pick before the 2018 draft. Maybe the Avs win the lottery, get Dahlin, and don't need to focus on LHD so much. There's a hundred different unlikely outcomes that could still happen at some point before next off season.

Also, if the offers are going to be the same, more or less, what's the rush? To avoid all risks, no matter how probable they actually are? That's the kind of thinking that results in mediocrity. I'd rather have a GM that aims for the stars and misses than one who aims much lower and hits.

Basically the best case scenario is that you get the same offer you are getting right now but only if Duchene plays ball and has a reasonable ask and is willing to sign with them...

Yeah...

Sure sounds like a good gamble where nothing can go wrong and where there is a lot of upside to waiting...

Duchene has to be traded before the deadline. Anything else would just be reckless and beyond stupid.
Especially if he keeps playing and looking as good as he has over these first couple of games...


And yeah. I think it really is time to change your username if you want to be taken seriously.
Because honestly. No serious Avs fan can want that right now...
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,791
3,994
Colorado
After this extended adventure there is not a chance in hell Matt Duchene signs an extension from Sakic without a NTC.

Bryan Little just signed an extension with the Jets and got a NMC for the first 2 years, and a 14 team no-trade list NTC for the last 4 years. Seems like a pretty standard request for UFAs in their late 20s, regardless of whatever extended adventures the player has had.
 

Finlandia WOAT

js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
May 23, 2010
24,192
23,870
??? So if we agree he's going to get at least some form of a NTC in an extension from Sakic, then waiting until he signs that extension isn't going to raise his value. Duchene can pick where Sakic sends him a la Rick Nash, or unilaterally block a trade if he gets that kind of control.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Breakdowns

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
60,403
19,241
w/ Renly's Peach
??? So if we agree he's going to get at least some form of a NTC in an extension from Sakic, then waiting until he signs that extension isn't going to raise his value. Duchene can pick were Sakic sends him a la Rick Nash, or unilaterally block a trade if he gets that kind of control.

He could, but he could also be happy enough with the Canes that he'll accept that kind of contract extension from them to get out of Colorado a year sooner.

Not knowing him personally and never having been to the Carolinas myself I can't say, but it seems like he'd like the area based off of all of my friends' experiences down there and the impression I've gotten of Duchene following his NHL career so closely. And with the roster / prospect pool, I think they should be very appealing to Dutchy as well, especially if Necas is as good as I think he will be so that team has the top end firepower...between Dutchy, Aho, Skinner & Necas...to be a major cup contender.
 

Finlandia WOAT

js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
May 23, 2010
24,192
23,870
As a Hurricanes fan, if Duchene agreed to an extension before he was traded I would consider Hanifin for Duchene. But I am one man.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Breakdowns

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
60,403
19,241
w/ Renly's Peach
As a Hurricanes fan, if Duchene agreed to an extension before he was traded I would consider Hanifin for Duchene. But I am one man.

Yeah that to me has always seemed like the only chance Sakic has to come out of this with the defensive piece he could've gotten from Ottawa last summer, but I'm so doubtful all of those stars align properly over the next 9 months. And with the strength of next year's draft I just want all of the picks, so I'd rather not hold me breath on that...
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,791
3,994
Colorado
Basically the best case scenario is that you get the same offer you are getting right now but only if Duchene plays ball and has a reasonable ask and is willing to sign with them...

Yeah...

Sure sounds like a good gamble where nothing can go wrong and where there is a lot of upside to waiting...

Duchene has to be traded before the deadline. Anything else would just be reckless and beyond stupid.
Especially if he keeps playing and looking as good as he has over these first couple of games...


And yeah. I think it really is time to change your username if you want to be taken seriously.
Because honestly. No serious Avs fan can want that right now...

I would say that best case scenario is that the Avs get what they want, a young LHD with upside, which is still plausible. Just because you, and most other Avs fans around here, are pessimistic and seem to want to panic because short term results haven't lined up with where we hoped to be by now, does not mean that Sakic's long term plan is flawed.

As I've said before, the Avs did not have a realistic path to success when Sakic took over the team. They had a handful of good players, a whole bunch of mediocre vets, and essentially nothing in the prospect pool. In this era, when good young players are rarely available in trades or as UFAs, the only reasonable way to expect to get them is through the draft. So, Sakic made some changes to the scouting department, and the last 3 years have resulted in some very interesting young players. Unfortunately, because he was rebuilding the prospect pool essentially from scratch, he still had to go the UFA route to fill out the roster until the youngsters were ready. The last 3 years show how well the UFA/waiver route works, further cementing the importance of drafting well.

We're just now starting to see the results of what Sakic has been doing. The last 3 years were a means to get us to this point, where we seem to have a pretty consistent supply of young, talented players to add to the roster. Even with all the prospects that joined the team this year, there's still 3 or 4 guys with real potential behind them. Looking forward, there's a real chance for the Avs to be competitive in the near future, and if they can continue to draft well, they could remain competitive for decades. In my view, long term success should be the primary goal of a GM, and Sakic seems to have us on a path that's heading in that direction.

So, if you want to complain about the methods he used to get to this point, and nitpick about every mistake he's made, that's fine. But, don't expect me to join in the pity party. I still see plenty of reasons for long term optimism, and don't want to give up my opportunity to say "I told you so" quite yet. And, I appreciate the concern for my reputation, but I think you care more about it than I do at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vaslof

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
20,337
13,042
Toronto, Ontario
Is that really what you got from the post you quoted?

The Canes fans around here, and Ron Francis, have said that the risk of acquiring Duchene with 2 years left is too great, and they'd be a lot more willing to pay for him if they could immediately extend him. Do I need to spell out the rest of the logic behind waiting until he can be extended, or can you figure out the rest on your own?

Um, the "risk" in acquiring him with two years left is that he can walk away as a free agent. Getting him one year closer to being able to walk away as a free agent doesn't make him more enticing as an asset, it makes him less enticing.

It's hilarious that you manage to be condescending and insulting while simultaneously not having a clue what you're talking about.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,791
3,994
Colorado
Um, the "risk" in acquiring him with two years left is that he can walk away as a free agent. Getting him one year closer to being able to walk away as a free agent doesn't make him more enticing as an asset, it makes him less enticing.

It's hilarious that you manage to be condescending and insulting while simultaneously not having a clue what you're talking about.

Getting him one year closer also means that the team that acquires him is able to immediately start negotiating an extension, something they can't do until he's in his final contract year. For a team that doesn't want to risk paying a big trade price for him, and then wait 9 months to extend him (which has its own set of risks) it is possible that him being 1 year from UFA and being able to immediate sign an extension could be more enticing than acquiring him right now.

I also apologize for assuming you'd come to this conclusion on your own, I didn't mean to be condescending. I won't assume you can follow basic logic in the future.
 

Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
28,711
10,570
Getting him one year closer also means that the team that acquires him is able to immediately start negotiating an extension, something they can't do until he's in his final contract year. For a team that doesn't want to risk paying a big trade price for him, and then wait 9 months to extend him (which has its own set of risks) it is possible that him being 1 year from UFA and being able to immediate sign an extension could be more enticing than acquiring him right now.

I also apologize for assuming you'd come to this conclusion on your own, I didn't mean to be condescending. I won't assume you can follow basic logic in the future.

Logic also says that a guy who has been treated in a way that he considers unfair, won't be in any rush to just lock himself up for mutli years, giving up his 1 chance at true free agency, before ever playing a game for a franchise, it's coach and in that city. But of course in your logical world, Duchene is not going to act in his own self-interest, he's going to act in a way that maximizes the return for the Avs in orer ot make IWantSakicAsMyGM happy.

Logic goes on to say, that if the return is dependent on him signing, that Duchene can then hold the cards by saying he will or won't sign with certain teams, meaning there will only be 1 realistic buyer, meaning the buying price goes down and a team won't have to give up the young LD with top potential that you've managed to convince yourselv will be the return.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StayAtHomeAv
Nov 13, 2006
11,527
1,404
Ohio
Logic also says that a guy who has been treated in a way that he considers unfair, won't be in any rush to just lock himself up for mutli years, giving up his 1 chance at true free agency, before ever playing a game for a franchise, it's coach and in that city. But of course in your logical world, Duchene is not going to act in his own self-interest, he's going to act in a way that maximizes the return for the Avs in orer ot make IWantSakicAsMyGM happy.

Logic goes on to say, that if the return is dependent on him signing, that Duchene can then hold the cards by saying he will or won't sign with certain teams, meaning there will only be 1 realistic buyer, meaning the buying price goes down and a team won't have to give up the young LD with top potential that you've managed to convince yourselv will be the return.

To carry it a step further, if Duchene is traded, acting in self-interest wouldn't he want his new team to pay the Avs as little as possible to make his new team a stronger contender?
 

WesMcCauley

Registered User
Apr 24, 2015
8,616
2,600
Do the Rangers have a solid, young defenseman with upside to center a package around?
We have Brady Skjei but he made the all-rookie team last season over a guy like Provorov for example so no way he is beeing traded for Duchene.
We also have DeAngelo, Sean Day, Neal Pionk, Bereglazov etc.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
60,403
19,241
w/ Renly's Peach
CBJ brass would be all over this trade if it was that easy in terms of extension... but it's not.

How do you figure? I like Ryan Murray a lot and get that Carlsson has the skating & size some teams still love, but neither matches a Hanifin offer from Carolina.
 
  • Like
Reactions: S E P H

Papa Francouz

Registered User
Nov 25, 2013
5,453
5,071
Denver, CO
We have Brady Skjei but he made the all-rookie team last season over a guy like Provorov for example so no way he is beeing traded for Duchene.
We also have DeAngelo, Sean Day, Neal Pionk, Bereglazov etc.
Yeah, I was under the impression Rangers fans didn't want to trade Skjei. As for the other names you threw out, I really don't think any would be of interest as a centerpiece in a Duchene deal. Just not high quality enough, or in DeAngelo's case, more of what we already have.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,791
3,994
Colorado
Logic also says that a guy who has been treated in a way that he considers unfair, won't be in any rush to just lock himself up for mutli years, giving up his 1 chance at true free agency, before ever playing a game for a franchise, it's coach and in that city. But of course in your logical world, Duchene is not going to act in his own self-interest, he's going to act in a way that maximizes the return for the Avs in orer ot make IWantSakicAsMyGM happy.

Logic goes on to say, that if the return is dependent on him signing, that Duchene can then hold the cards by saying he will or won't sign with certain teams, meaning there will only be 1 realistic buyer, meaning the buying price goes down and a team won't have to give up the young LD with top potential that you've managed to convince yourselv will be the return.

That's still assuming that he truly feels that the Avs have treated him unfairly. And, no, the circumstantial evidence that sort of might indicate something if you look at it a certain way doesn't convince me. I can just as easily believe that there are explanations for his comments and actions that don't require him to hate the team.

I have also never gotten the sense that Duchene was just after the money. He happily signed a bridge deal, and then happily signed a long term extension at market value. I don't know what his long term plans are, or if he's got a specific place he wants to play, but I do have a pretty good idea that he wants to win. So, if a team can offer him winning, and pay him fairly, I think it's got a chance to work out well for both parties. You know, like how ROR immediately signed an extension in Buffalo, despite everyone's claims that he was definitely going to go UFA and therefore should never be able to return a LHD prospect as good as Zadorov, let alone Zadorov++.


To carry it a step further, if Duchene is traded, acting in self-interest wouldn't he want his new team to pay the Avs as little as possible to make his new team a stronger contender?

I'd suggest that it is in Duchene's best interest to play as well as he can this year, regardless of whether he wants to stay in Colorado or not. Last year can't be called an anomaly if he doesn't rebound, and two bad years in a row would significantly impact the value of his next contract. But, sure, I guess we could assume that he's going to tank his own trade value, and probably lose a few million per year on his next deal. Seems like a bad idea to me, but it's your theory.
 

PAZ

.
Jul 14, 2011
17,418
9,798
BC
Honestly, with the way Duchene is playing and the chemistry he has with Yakupov and Kerfoot, i'm pretty happy he hasn't been traded yet. Mind you it's luck on Sakic's part, but his chemistry with Yakupov is huge in helping him get Nail confidence back. If losing out on a B prospect means Yakupov bouncing back and becoming a 50-60 point, 20-30 goal scorer it's more than worth whatever small asset we lose by waiting until this years deadline.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
If Sakic wasn't asking for something ridiculous, the trade would be done.

I think most know already that it is ridiculous with multiple teams saying as much in regards to the Duchene front.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad