Marner and Nylander vs Horvat and Boeser

[Sergei Shirokov]

What gift was this? I sure hope your not implying his success was fully do to Auston Matthews....Nylander had 13 points in 22 games on a Leaf team before Matthews or Marner that was much worse than Canucks team Horvat was on. No one is saying he's an old man, I'm simply making a point that his production is increasing but it wasn't very good to start.

Horvat was a 4th line player in his rookie year. He played just over 12 mins per game with no PP time. Nylander had much better opportunity as opposed to Horvat who had to earn everything he got. He had 13 goals & 25 points in 68 games. I don't think that's too bad for a 4th line player.

Its an odd comparison between the two when your just bringing up points. Different players that have always had different roles.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

much worse is a stretch. Last and third last respectively, 75pts 69pts.

toronto actually scored more goals that year

Take a look at the respective rosters during that season....

 

[Hugh Mungus]

What gift was this? I sure hope your not implying his success was fully do to Auston Matthews....Nylander had 13 points in 22 games on a Leaf team before Matthews or Marner that was much worse than Canucks team Horvat was on. No one is saying he's an old man, I'm simply making a point that his production is increasing but it wasn't very good to start.

ok... his offensive production was low early in his career partly due to a terrible coach and the fact that he's not an offensive game breaker. Ever since then, horvat has proved doubters wrong time and time again, who thought he was gonna cap as a bottom 6 C and then was labelled as a low end 2C, now he's on his way to being an elite 2C at the age of 22 and imo has leaped ahead of nylander with only 9 less points last year while being solid defensively, and was outproducing both nylander and marner prior to injury while being heavily relied on for matchups and defense.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

ok... his offensive production was low early in his career partly due to a terrible coach and the fact that he's not an offensive game breaker. Ever since then, horvat has proved doubters wrong time and time again, who thought he was gonna cap as a bottom 6 C and then was labelled as a low end 2C, now he's on his way to being an elite 2C at the age of 22 and imo has leaped ahead of nylander with only 9 less points last year while being solid defensively, and was outproducing both nylander and marner prior to injury while being heavily relied on for matchups and defense.

Sure because the Leafs duo is done developing lol, you afford Horvat the benefit of the doubt after 4 seasons but chop liver for the Leafs duo.

 

[farshi]

Take a look at the respective rosters during that season....

That's pretty irrelevant look at their line mates both are shit.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

Sure because the Leafs duo is done developing lol, you afford Horvat the benefit of the doubt after 4 seasons but chop liver for the Leafs duo.

? You're gonna have to quote me where I said they were done developing, I said horvat has jumped ahead at this point that's it

 

[Ainec]

The List of Jericho had a page long argument that Nylander is on the same tier as Pastrnak based off the last 2 seasons (??)

He also compared Pastrnak's 18 and 19 year old seasons to Nylander's 20 and 21

I see he's moved onto Horvat but with a different set of requirements

 

[The List Of Jericho]

The List of Jericho had a page long argument that Nylander is on the same tier as Pastrnak based off the last 2 seasons (??)

He also compared Pastrnak's 18 and 19 year old seasons to Nylander's 20 and 21

I see he's moved onto Horvat but with a different set of requirements

Funny thing is that based off your requirements in that thread it's Nylander> Horvat quite easily

 

[The List Of Jericho]

? You're gonna have to quote me where I said they were done developing, I said horvat has jumped ahead at this point that's it

Jumped ahead based off a 30 game stretch....that's cherry picking at it's best.

 

[Ainec]

Funny thing is that based off your requirements in that thread it's Nylander> Horvat quite easily

Which requirements are those?

Pastrnak >> Nylander =/= Nylander > Horvat

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Which requirements are those?

Pastrnak >> Nylander =/= Nylander > Horvat

The production requirements, at least we can agree that Nylander is better than Horvat

 

[Ainec]

The production requirements, at least we can agree that Nylander is better than Horvat

Nylander 4 more games, 1 more point 5 less goals

also, not a center

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Nylander 4 more games, 1 more point 5 less goals

also, not a center

In a bad year for Nylander, you know players do have them. Brayden Schenn has more points than Crosby this year is he now better than Crosby based on 30 games?

 

[Hugh Mungus]

Jumped ahead based off a 30 game stretch....that's cherry picking at it's best.

thats more than a third of the season.. sucks that horvat is injured, otherwise you'd make the argument that 40 games is not a good enough sample size then eventually the whole season wouldnt be good enough

only time will tell but i have a good feeling that this one will also be put to rest in a years time just like
horvat vs domi/lazar/bennett/reinhart/nichushkin/E.lindholm

 

[lawrence]

Message when Horvat has a better season than Marner or Nylander rookie years, he's in year 4 and still hasn't.

like me saying Henrik is a better player then Austin Matthews and challenging you to come back when Matthews hit a 111 point season.

gtfo. I'm tempted to do a Horvat vs Nylander poll but then members of your fanbase will accuse me of revenge poll.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

thats more than a third of the season.. sucks that horvat is injured, otherwise you'd make the argument that 40 games is not a good enough sample size then eventually the whole season wouldnt be good enough

only time will tell but i have a good feeling that this one will also be put to rest in a years time just like
horvat vs domi/lazar/bennett/reinhart/nichushkin/E.lindholm

You do realize the Leaf duo are having comparable seasons to Horvat even though most say they've been struggling this year right?

 

[The List Of Jericho]

like me saying Henrik is a better player then Austin Matthews and challenging you to come back when Matthews hit a 111 point season.

gtfo. I'm tempted to do a Horvat vs Nylander poll but then members of your fanbase will accuse me of revenge poll.

Go do it, doubt Horvat wins by much or at all. You talk as if Horvat is killing them in PPG or something, he's barely ahead and both Leafs players are struggling mightily, what does that tell if if Horvat is having his best year?

Go to the Sundin vs Henrik thread and see all of your Canuck buddies talking about points count differently in different era's just to try to inhibit Mats Sundin's numbers lol

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Go do it, doubt Horvat wins by much or at all. You talk as if Horvat is killing them in PPG or something, he's barely ahead and both Leafs players are struggling mightily, what does that tell if if Horvat is having his best year?

Go to the Sundin vs Henrik thread and see all of your Canuck buddies talking about points count differently in different era's just to try to inhibit Mats Sundin's numbers lol

Oh man the salt is real

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Oh man the salt is real

No salt just facts, Horvat's SP is at 15 percent this year while the Leafs duo is at 3 percent and 6 percent respectively, yet he barely leads them in points. Let that sink in for a minute.

 

[Diamonddog01]

No salt just facts, Horvat's SP is at 15 percent this year while the Leafs duo is at 3 percent and 6 percent respectively, yet he barely leads them in points. Let that sink in for a minute.

Have you done the math on how many goals them shooting at their normal shooting percentage would add?

Nylander's career sh% is 10.2 and current is more like 7% than 6% (6.8), so that would be an extra 1.5 goals...Marner career sh% is 8.9 and current is 3.4%, so that would be about 3 extra goals. So basically they'd have about 4 - 5 extra points combined.

Pretty negligible.

 

[nickdawg95]

hovart a big body centre man big body Tallahassee, boeser is the goat two way winger sniper mane, i go with the nuck boys

 

[vancityluongo]

The hockey players that I would take tomorrow to play a single game for my team, in order, are as follows:

Nylander
Horvat
Marner
Boeser

Marner is overvalued around here, but his season last year can't be written off that easily. Nylander has always struck me as having the right balance of skills and smarts to be a consistent 70+ point player. Not going to change that view just because they're being compared to Canucks.

Horvat is being overrated defensively and underrated offensively. He's hands down a better overall hockey player than Brock right now; people are confusing that with the fact that he likely has the lowest ceiling of the bunch. Boeser has the lethal shot, but it's been apparent with Bo out that he doesn't drive play in nearly the same manner. However, let's give Boeser a full season. Based on his start, he has the highest ceiling of the four. Wouldn't be surprised in one year to see the consensus view as:

Boeser
Nylander
Marner
Horvat

 

[Hugh Mungus]

You do realize the Leaf duo are having comparable seasons to Horvat even though most say they've been struggling this year right?

hockeydb would suggest so but any logical person who actually watches the games would know horvat has been a superior player in every aspect this year.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

No salt just facts, Horvat's SP is at 15 percent this year while the Leafs duo is at 3 percent and 6 percent respectively, yet he barely leads them in points. Let that sink in for a minute.

theres literally no excuse for someone as praised as nylander to be struggling while playing along side an elite talent in matthews, and as for horvats shooting percentage, he shot at 12.7% last year so 15% isnt an unsustainable jump for him.

keep trying tho

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Have you done the math on how many goals them shooting at their normal shooting percentage would add?

Nylander's career sh% is 10.2 and current is more like 7% than 6% (6.8), so that would be an extra 1.5 goals...Marner career sh% is 8.9 and current is 3.4%, so that would be about 3 extra goals. So basically they'd have about 4 - 5 extra points combined.

Pretty negligible.

Which would put them ahead of Horvat in points who's at double the shooting percentage....

theres literally no excuse for someone as praised as nylander to be struggling while playing along side an elite talent in matthews, and as for horvats shooting percentage, he shot at 12.7% last year so 15% isnt an unsustainable jump for him.

keep trying tho

Sure and when Horvat struggles and comes back down to earth you'll go back to the whole it's because he's not getting the opportunities right lol