Larry Brooks: Marc Staal wants to stay in New York

[Zil]

First off you forgot McDonagh...

McDonagh's not on another team so why would I list him as someone who would keep Staal from being the top guy on a different team?

Second, If we're going go in that direction, then lets look a the facts of those players and their respective teams.

a) Is Doughty "elite" defensively? Is PK Subban a world-breaker in his own zone? No, Doughty is a well rounded, all-around defenseman, but his specialty is OFFENSE... Do you not remember everyone here saying McD was better defensively while Doughty was better Offensively during the playoffs?

I don't think Staal's better in his own end than Doughty.

b) Not all of those guys play the left side, which still makes him a #1 Pairing Defenseman on LA (Doughty), Ottawa (Karlsson), St. Louis (Pietrangelo), Montreal (Subban), Nashville (Weber)...

Then you should've said first pairing, not #1 defenseman. And Bouwmeester plays the left side for St. Louis and is better than Staal too at this point.

c) all of those guys are on massive contracts due to the OFFENSE created from the blueline... however the mistake here is focusing on the offensive side of a defenseman, which is naturally (by way of it's name) a DEFENSE-FIRST position. I'm not saying that Staal shouldn't be putting up points, but to say he's "better" than these other players is not quite accurate because only a handful of those players you listed are primarily shut-down defenseman... (which I'll address in e)

They post offense, but most of them are pretty great defenders in their own right.

d) What about age? Staal is only 27, and now entering his prime. Not exactly Dan Boyle part II, right?

He's 27 with a long concussion history and a permanently dilated eye. His play is already super inconsistent.

e) to answer your question directly:
i. in terms of offensive production, he only realistically beats Chara (at 5v5), mostly because he does not play power play time.
ii. In terms of defensive play, I'd say the only guys ahead of him on that list are Weber, Suter, Chara, Vlasic, McDonagh, and Keith (in no particular order). The list of who he is better than is VERY long...

I think you're watching Staal with Rangers-colored glasses if you rank him that highly in his own zone.

f) in regards to the salary cap, Staal's cap hit is currently 4.875M... is commiting an extra $2M for depth of the LD position really that impeding to the team?

It is a problem when you take it in conjunction with needing to give raises to Stepan, Hagelin, Zuccarello, and possibly St. Louis while the cap isn't going to go up that much. Our defensive pipeline is also heavily left-handed. Putting aside the right handed McIlrath, our best defensive prospects are Skjei, Graves, Allen, Bodie, and Noreau. All of them are lefties. In contrast, the next best right handed guy is probably Zamorsky (who might be very good, but is definitely a long shot). If there's one spot we can fill from within and thus open up cap room, it's left defense.

 

[True Blue]

If there's one spot we can fill from within and thus open up cap room, it's left defense.

By whom? Skjei, Graves, Allen, Bodie, and Noreau? None of these can play Staal's minutes and most have never played a second of a regular season. You are not filling the #6 defense slot, you are filing Staal's slot.

 

[Zil]

By whom? Skjei, Graves, Allen, Bodie, and Noreau? None of these can play Staal's minutes and most have never played a second of a regular season. You are not filling the #6 defense slot, you are filing Staal's slot.

Skjei will likely be able to fill the second pairing slot in 15-16. We've had rookies play on our second pairing and do quite well before (McDonagh, Sauer). This is Brady's third year of college. His game is mature and we don't have to worry about his physical tools given his size and skating ability. And it's not the end of the world if Skjei needs a season in Hartford and we need a one-year stopgap.

On the other hand, flushing a massive chunk of our cap space into a deteriorating Staal for the next six+ years when we also need to pay Stepan, Zuccarello, Hagelin, and St. Louis is not feasible. We cannot afford to give big, long contracts to everyone and Staal is not a good bet to be worth that deal given his inconsistencies and injury history.

 

[EEL]

On the other hand, flushing a massive chunk of our cap space into a deteriorating Staal for the next six+ years when we also need to pay Stepan, Zuccarello, Hagelin, and St. Louis is not feasible. We cannot afford to give big, long contracts to everyone and Staal is not a good bet to be worth that deal given his inconsistencies and injury history.[/QUOTE]

 

[True Blue]

Skjei will likely be able to fill the second pairing slot in 15-16.

Based on what are you stating this? A kid who has not played a second of NHL time is suddenly going to make for a second pairing defenseman as a rookie? How many times have you seen that happen?

We've had rookies play on our second pairing and do quite well before (McDonagh, Sauer).

Much the exception and not the rule.

This is Brady's third year of college. His game is mature and we don't have to worry about his physical tools given his size and skating ability. And it's not the end of the world if Skjei needs a season in Hartford and we need a one-year stopgap.

Off course he probably needs at least a year in college. But none of this is an indicator that he can play Staal's minutes or as well as Staal in the 2015 season.

On the other hand, flushing a massive chunk of our cap space into a deteriorating Staal for the next six+ years when we also need to pay Stepan, Zuccarello, Hagelin, and St. Louis is not feasible.

That he is deteriorating is conjecture. And as there will be a budget crunch, there will need to be decisions that have to be made. And it might result in someone like Hagelin being moved and/or MSL not being resigned unless he performs well AND is willing to give a sweetheart deal. Staal need not be the one who is cut out of the picture.

We cannot afford to give big, long contracts to everyone and Staal is not a good bet to be worth that deal given his inconsistencies and injury history.

No, we cannot. But in prime top defensemen are much tougher to find than forwards.

 

[Zil]

Based on what are you stating this? A kid who has not played a second of NHL time is suddenly going to make for a second pairing defenseman as a rookie? How many times have you seen that happen?
Much the exception and not the rule.

Off course he probably needs at least a year in college. But none of this is an indicator that he can play Staal's minutes or as well as Staal in the 2015 season.

The fact that they wanted to sign Skjei shows he's at least Hartford ready right now. He's about to add another year of development on top of that. It's no stretch to think he could be ready to contribute in 15-16. He's a top defensive prospect who will have had three years of growth at that point.

That he is deteriorating is conjecture. And as there will be a budget crunch, there will need to be decisions that have to be made. And it might result in someone like Hagelin being moved and/or MSL not being resigned unless he performs well AND is willing to give a sweetheart deal. Staal need not be the one who is cut out of the picture.

It's not conjecture. I could go the advanced stat route and point out how much he was leaning on Stralman last year, but you probably don't care about that. Instead I'll point out that he's not consistent at all at this point. If you think otherwise you're not watching him. He struggled like crazy in the last two playoff rounds. Speed and aggressive forechecks give him fits. He cannot handle the puck with precision anymore, which leaves him vulnerable to turnovers.

No, we cannot. But in prime top defensemen are much tougher to find than forwards.

That's a brilliant way to turn a short-term problem into a long-term one. We can dig up a second pairing guy if we really need to. If the last few years have shown anything it's that we're an attractive organization for quality veterans.

 

[zuckera1]

Skjei will likely be able to fill the second pairing slot in 15-16. We've had rookies play on our second pairing and do quite well before (McDonagh, Sauer). This is Brady's third year of college. His game is mature and we don't have to worry about his physical tools given his size and skating ability. And it's not the end of the world if Skjei needs a season in Hartford and we need a one-year stopgap.

On the other hand, flushing a massive chunk of our cap space into a deteriorating Staal for the next six+ years when we also need to pay Stepan, Zuccarello, Hagelin, and St. Louis is not feasible. We cannot afford to give big, long contracts to everyone and Staal is not a good bet to be worth that deal given his inconsistencies and injury history.

Right on the money Zil, as usual.

 

[satrabyk]

Im not sure if some of you actually watch the games, but staal is as good as it gets as a D man, pay him whatever, we need him to stay.

 

[Raspewtin]

I'm totally split on keeping Staal at this point, I just hope the FO makes the right decision, and doesn't make this a long term issue.

 

[satrabyk]

And please are we really worried about leaving cap space for an old guy like MSL. He will be getting 2-3 million after this year. Anything more would be a mistake. Yes Zucc can maybe earn 4 million with his play but still would sign Staal over worrying about these forwards. Staal is a rock and come playoffs he is very tough to play against. Our 2 best D are him and Mcd. Mcd has been the best recently but don't think Staal cant be our number 1 on other occasions. We get rid of him, and say Mcd gets hurt what than? For our team we need to try and keep those two D man until they are 35. I love how because hes been on the second pair posters are labelling him a second pair D man. Hes a first pair D man in every way. No he is not replaceable In anyway from any player I have seen in our organization or any veteran. Teams would die to get there hands on Staal. The only issue if any is the head problems. He deserves a contract 100%. 5.5-6ish is fine. Its amazing how Sather and other posters are unsure about signing a rock solid D man that is still in his prime, but than we go and sign 35 olds to 7-8 million dollar contracts. Its honestly laughable how crazy some of you sound on here and most of all once again the GM. Maybe will sign Ozolinsh to a 3 year 15 million dollar contract, or even the signing of Boyle, ya I don't mind it, but staal is leap and bounds a better Defensive player than Boyle at this point.

 

[zuckera1]

Im not sure if some of you actually watch the games, but staal is as good as it gets as a D man, pay him whatever, we need him to stay.

I'm not sure if you watch the games, or have been to the NYR page on CapGeek.

 

[Fugazy]

Im not sure if some of you actually watch the games, but staal is as good as it gets as a D man, pay him whatever, we need him to stay.

They really just can't pay him "whatever." They have a few important players they also need to re-sign in the next few years.

 

[New York RKY]

Apparently Staal is the new whipping boy around here. Or at the very least will be the new whipping boy if he gets resigned.

 

[Raspewtin]

Apparently Staal is the new whipping boy around here. Or at the very least will be the new whipping boy if he gets resigned.

How did you draw that conclusion?

 

[New York RKY]

How did you draw that conclusion?

Just reading through the thread and seeing everyone ripping his game apart and how average he's been lately.

 

[Raspewtin]

Just reading through the thread and seeing everyone ripping his game apart and how average he's been lately.

Well he really hasn't played like himself since the Pittsburgh series, plenty of the criticism is warranted. It's fair to be concerned about his next contract, and just how well he'll perform with more responsibility.

 

[Zil]

Apparently Staal is the new whipping boy around here. Or at the very least will be the new whipping boy if he gets resigned.

Realizing his limitations does not make him the whipping boy. He's not the same player we saw in 10-11.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Sadly it's quite obvious that he's no longer the player he was - and that the injuries have truly taken their toll. It's unfortunate, but it does happen to some players. Yankees fans will recall Mattingly - he was on a path to be one of the all time greats... and then he suffered a back injury just as he was hitting his prime. Thereafter he was still a good player, but he never again was able to play at the same level. Same thing happened to Tino pre- and post-Benitez HBP.

 

[zuckera1]

If resigned, Staal will eventually be the new whipping boy.

For this season? I believe the whipping boy will be our $5 million dollar man himself, Derrick Brassard.

He's a good player, however I don't believe he's worth 5 mil over 5 years for middling 2C production, with much of it on the PP, especially when Zucc carries that line at even strength. If he gets off to a slow start people will be calling for his head.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

If resigned, Staal will eventually be the new whipping boy.

For this season? I believe the whipping boy will be our $5 million dollar man himself, Derrick Brassard.

He's a good player, however I don't believe he's worth 5 mil over 5 years for middling 2C production, with much of it on the PP, especially when Zucc carries that line at even strength. If he gets off to a slow start people will be calling for his head.

So you'd prefer a much more cost effective whipping boy?

 

[cd211]

Missing staal is going to be rough for a bit, but i rather sell high in hope of landing a nice picks and high end prospects, along with Skjei not to far away, much rather trade him.

ANA
VAN
SJ
AZ
Stars

and many others out west could use him

 

[Zil]

If they were going to deal Staal, then they would've done it prior to free agency when they could've made moves to replace him. It's too late to trade him now. We need him for this season.

 

[NYGBleedBlueNYR]

I don't know if it's the contract or the multiple injuries but Staal just isn't the same player anymore.

He's too terrible with the puck in any zone to sign to a substantial contract.

Add in the injury history & he's a clear stay away IMO.

 

[zuckera1]

So you'd prefer a much more cost effective whipping boy?

The player's cap hit relative to his play affects how he's viewed around here.

See: Rick Nash, Brad Richards (2013, 2014) etc.

 

[Mikos87]

The player's cap hit relative to his play affects how he's viewed around here.

See: Rick Nash, Brad Richards (2013, 2014) etc.

Yeah and Brassard is lined up to be the next one.

Those 8 game scoreless streaks to go with PPG for 7 games is only going to extend the debate on here.