Marc Bergevin to meet with media before Vancouver game - 5:15pm EST

[angry pirate]

How can someone argue with me that the plan was to build through the Center position with Galchenyuk, after seeing how he was used, deployed, other Centers on the roster, lack of trades... it’s nonsense.

I think the plan was originally to use Galchenyuk as a center but a number of circumstances changed that for the worse.

1) - The lockout: If half the NHL season doesn't get locked out than I have my doubts that Galchenyuk would have made the team. He'd have another full season developing at center with Sarnia. Hindsight probably tells us that would have been a better path to a full time center position.

2) - Winning the division in 2012-13: It created expectations. We all of a sudden went from a team that was rebuilding to a team that was on the brink of success. We were Canada's next cup. We have a Norris winner in Subban. We had an elite scorer in Pacioretty. We had top 6 centers in Plekanec and Desharnais.

3) - Conferance Finals in 2013-14: Coming into the season we were favorites. But we had holes on the wing. Desharnais wasn't suited for the wing and we weren't moving Pleks. In Desharnais' defence, he had a good year. So we kept Galchenyuk on the wing for another year. Short term we were probably best suited for him to be on the wing. Our success' and the expectations that they created became our worst enemy. We have a bad regular season, hope that maybe there will be some change... and Boom, we get hot in the playoffs. Conferance Final run. And the vicious cycle continues.

4) - Another Division Title 2014-15 (le sigh) : Again we are Canada's hope. Experts are predicting we are going to have a legit shot. And we actually look like it. Pretty convincing season. We need Galchenyuk's offence, but our best top 6 has him on the wing still. Desharnais is productive. Plekanec is productive. Again, his conversion to center gets delayed. Again in the short term it probably is for the best. Again it doesn't get us anywhere.

So here we are today. Hindsight wishes we just put Galchenyuk to center. Circumstances kept him on the wing. I 100% believe that had we missed the playoffs again post lockout, had Galchenyuk played a full season in Sarnia, had we gone into that 2013-14 season still "rebuilding" that Galchenyuk would have come into the league and played center right away. Unfortunately the pressure of the teams success and expectations got the better of the team. We entered a win now mode and we are feeling it now.

So do I think that the team drafted him to be a Center? Absolutely. But I think with all the successes the team was having, they just got too comfortable with him on the wing. Took their minds off the long term for a minute and now we are feeling it.

 

[BLONG7]

This is an old debate that will go nowhere in the end. If you think Byron is the only positive, you are mistaken. If you think I think Bergevin is a genius GM, you are also mistaken

Thanks..........thought so...

 

[Censored Toad]

2013: 1st in Northeast, 1st Round exit
2014: 3rd in Atlantic, 3rd Round exit
2015: 1st in Atlantic, 2nd Round exit
2016: 6th in Atlantic, no playoffs
2017: 1st in Atlantic, 1st Round exit
2018: Currently 6th in Atlantic, no playoffs likely

How does anyone look at this and say he's done a good job? Is anyone just banking on the pattern and hoping 2018-2019 will be 1st in the division because 2017, 2015, and 2013 were?

but but but DIVISION TITLES MATTER!!!!! DA RECORD!!!!!

sorry I couldn't resist

 

[Habs Halifax]

Thanks..........thought so...

Only a little over 1 hour left till 5pm on the east coast . No way I am getting into that debate and been there, done that. I will agree that Bergevin is on a very thin thread. That's where it will lead in the end. Lets save each other time

 

[junyab]

That is BS and hindsight evaluation. It's way to easy to say what you are saying today. Come on man.... Galchenyuk was drafted to be our potential #1C.

This isn't hindsight. Fans and the media have improperly labelled Galch a center ever since the pre-hype draft started. Did he have some center experience? Yes. Did he have the potential to be an NHL #1C? Yes. But the Habs didn't draft him with that specific agenda or plan. They drafted him because he was the best available and they would try to develop him into a center.

Fans have never let this drop. He had a "C" attached to his scouting report and that was it. He has been a mislabeled a natural lifelong center ever since. Could he still develop into one if given the chance? A real good chance? Sure. But he was drafted a forward, because that is what he was. If Bergevin thought he was drafting their #1C than he should've been fired on draft day because he clearly didn't read past Galchyuk's intro info of: name, birthdate, position and junior team.

 

[Tighthead]

A plan is typically any diagram or list of steps with timing and resources, used to achieve an objective to do something.

A narrative or story is a report of connected events, real or imaginary, presented in a sequence of written or spoken words

Imaginary...yup, I’ll call it a narrative

It’s a critical path.

 

[Bryson]

The best quote and I didn't see anyone mention it is when Bergevin said that trades are hard because of the salary cap! Hello Marc you have 16 million in free capspace. How much more do you need? Marc!? Marc!? WAKE UP MARC!

 

[isthatso]

The best quote and I didn't see anyone mention it is when Bergevin said that trades are hard because of the salary cap! Hello Marc you have 16 million in free capspace. How much more do you need? Marc!? Marc!? WAKE UP MARC!

I am hoping that what he truly meant was that it's hard since other potential trade partners do not have such a luxury...

 

[gunnerdom]

I care. I care about our team and I will not stand for negative propaganda because people are frustrated and want our GM fired. I get the frustration but it is ok to talk about some of the positives. These are Habs boards and our GM has made some good moves. The past off season was terrible and our GM deserves criticism for it but I'm not the type to turn everything into a negative because I am upset as a fan.

I'm really curious as to what you think Bergevin's good moves are. Please share because apart from Byron, I can't think of any off the top of my head. Just name like 5 or so.

 

[Censored Toad]

The best quote and I didn't see anyone mention it is when Bergevin said that trades are hard because of the salary cap! Hello Marc you have 16 million in free capspace. How much more do you need? Marc!? Marc!? WAKE UP MARC!

that didn't happen did it?

 

[NORiculous]

The best quote and I didn't see anyone mention it is when Bergevin said that trades are hard because of the salary cap! Hello Marc you have 16 million in free capspace. How much more do you need? Marc!? Marc!? WAKE UP MARC!

He was talking in general. He knows that he has cap space, he previously said it (cap space) was an asset. And he gave a few examples like to pickup salary dumps. That was the previous presser, I think.

 

[Bryson]

I am hoping that what he truly meant was that it's hard since other potential trade partners do not have such a luxury...

Still doesn't make any sense. The habs have the cap to retain salary on any of their players. It only costs a team 1.5M to take on Plekanec's 6M dollar salary, only 750K if the habs retain 50%. The salary cap is not an issue whatsoever.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's not one bad season.
It's two terrible seasons in last 3 years, and the other one he had to fire his coach to prevent yet another collapse.

So as I said, either you haven't paid attention, or you are clueless. You pick.

Actually, it's several terrible seasons that were covered up by our goalie. Without Price doing headstands we could easily be looking at missing the playoffs in five of the last six years.

Our leading scorer is pacing for 44 points, our blueline is worse than our center position is now. Why the hell would we want to stick with this guy?

 

[isthatso]

Still doesn't make any sense. The habs have the cap to retain salary on any of their players. It only costs a team 1.5M to take on Plekanec's 6M dollar salary, only 750K if the habs retain 50%. The salary cap is not an issue whatsoever.

I know. I am just trying to make any sense of anything he says right now. Although, maybe he was referring to trading Price's contract. That will prove to be a bit more complicated than trading Plek as a pending UFA.

Being that unqualified for a job while not loosing it is nothing short of amazing...

 

[Habs Halifax]

This isn't hindsight. Fans and the media have improperly labelled Galch a center ever since the pre-hype draft started. Did he have some center experience? Yes. Did he have the potential to be an NHL #1C? Yes. But the Habs didn't draft him with that specific agenda or plan. They drafted him because he was the best available and they would try to develop him into a center.

Fans have never let this drop. He had a "C" attached to his scouting report and that was it. He has been a mislabeled a natural lifelong center ever since. Could he still develop into one if given the chance? A real good chance? Sure. But he was drafted a forward, because that is what he was. If Bergevin thought he was drafting their #1C than he should've been fired on draft day because he clearly didn't read past Galchyuk's intro info of: name, birthdate, position and junior team.

Galchenyuk was drafted as our potential #1C. That's what prospects are until you realize what their true potential is after they are drafted. It was not a bad plan back in 2012. We drafted the best potential to be our #1C.

Here is a snap shot at Sportsnet top prospects heading into the draft.... It not foolish to think that Galchenyuk was a potential center. He was listed as one

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Galchenyuk was drafted as our potential #1C. That's what prospects are until you realize what their true potential is after they are drafted. It was not a bad plan back in 2012. We drafted the best potential to be our #1C.

Here is a snap shot at Sportsnet top prospects heading into the draft.... It not foolish to think that Galchenyuk was a potential center. He was listed as one

We drafted the right guy. We just decided to use him on the wing. Didn't make sense then or now but...

 

[Ozmodiar]

The best quote and I didn't see anyone mention it is when Bergevin said that trades are hard because of the salary cap! Hello Marc you have 16 million in free capspace. How much more do you need? Marc!? Marc!? WAKE UP MARC!

I liked when he mentioned the Lightning didn't do much in the offseason (besides being gifted a young defensemen who has more points than Habs' leading scorer).

Also liked when he called Mete 'close to NHL-ready' and that he could help the team. (not quite NHL-ready d-man helping defense corps that is better than last season's??)

 

[isthatso]

Galchenyuk was drafted as our potential #1C. That's what prospects are until you realize what their true potential is after they are drafted. It was not a bad plan back in 2012. We drafted the best potential to be our #1C.

Here is a snap shot at Sportsnet top prospects heading into the draft.... It not foolish to think that Galchenyuk was a potential center. He was listed as one

Nobody is arguing that. Like at all. Everybody knows he was a center. Most people agree that he was mishandled. That one move alone does not qualifies as building from the C out, though.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We drafted the right guy. We just decided to use him on the wing. Didn't make sense then or now but...

Correct. We agree. Some people think we drafted Galchenyuk and he was not a potential center back in 2012. Clearly they are using hindsight evaluation. I do agree that we mismanaged Galchenyuk. We drafted him as our potential #1C but he has not played a full season as a #1C after 6 seasons. It's ridiculous.

 

[pepperMonkey]

All this arguing back and forth...yet only one thing stands out. MB has been failing, and is about to fail again this year to make our team stronger than when he inherited this team.

(Yet he's still here...)

 

[Habs Halifax]

That’s absolutely incorrect, and please stop telling me what I realized.

I don’t believe Bergevins plan was to build through the Center position. I have 6 years of evidence to back me up.

We don’t agree.

Your argument is, Bergevin drafted Galchenyuk. See, that’s a great plan to build through the Center position.

My argument, is that there are far more steps in a plan. And Bergevin has done them.

So there’s a Grand Canyon-like difference in our opinions of how Bergevin is “building through the Center ice position”

Your argument is against yourself. I simply made a comment from the get go that we drafted Galchenyuk to be our #1C back in 2012. Now you are talking about plan vs narrative after you started with talking about the mismanagement/development.

 

[HockeyFan87]

What I got from Bergevin's PC are 2 things that I suspected for a while:

1. No matter what happens from here 'till the end of the season, If I look at his demeanor and the way he talked, he doesn't look like someone that is on the hot-seat and fears for his job, at all. Thus, I firmly believe that Playoffs or not this year, this guy will still be the GM starting the 2018-2019 season. He still has some life left as a GM here sadly.

2. The important changes at the culture and management level that NEEDS TO HAPPEN will happen only when Molson sees an important decrease in his finances compared to what it was in '14-'15, the last great regular season of the team. And it will happen when a bigger chunk will leave the Bell Centre and stop buying products-related from the team (tickets-season holders especially) when the team will be in ruins quality-wise, which is where Bergevin is leading this franchise with his lack of long-term vison and plan! And I'm really not convinced THOSE CHANGES will happen as long as Molson is the owner of this team.

The problem is when Bergevin will get fired, which will probably happen within the next 2 years IMO, is that the team will be stuck with the ridiculous Price's contract 'till the end and also others, which will lead the way to a very slow rebuild. This is why the ideal would be to trade Price before his new contract kicks-in next year. BUT that would have to be made in a rebuild process by a new GM. And that's not going to happen.

I'm sorry to bring this to my fellow habs fans here but I feel that's what going to happen sadly.

 

[isthatso]

So you agree we drafted Galchenyuk as a center but you don't agree that Bergevin did not truly try to build from the center out? Interesting... I guess you are talking about the management/development with Galchenyuk as a center. A lot of that has to do with MT and CJ but also with Bergevin and Galchenyuk. Time does change things but I never will understand that we did not play Galchenyuk in a full season and it's 6 years now. That is very bizarre

It is really not a ''controversial'' or ''out-of-the-box'' stance. Building through C means trying to draft, trade for, or by any other means acquire potential top 6 centers. As many as you can. Putting all your eggs in one basket is setting yourself up for failure and certainly does not strike me as a high priority.

If one potential top 6 C is your answer to what would be your plan (building from the C out), well, good luck with that. Especially when it is at the very least debatable if the team actually needs two top 6 centers. Wouldn't you say so?

Add to that, as you said, management setting Chucky himself for failure through poor development.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Your argument is against yourself. I simply made a comment from the get go that we drafted Galchenyuk to be our #1C back in 2012. Now you are talking about plan vs narrative after you started with talking about the mismanagement/development.

Actually no.

I initially made a comment that Bergevin has neglected to build from the Center position.

You then responded to me, arguing that bergevin’s drafting of Galchenyuk was proof of him building through the Center ice position.

What I’ve responded to you for several posts is that, drafting a player, is not evidence of building through Center. Multiple moves, and decisions are required to build through the Center ice.

Seems like, “he drafted Galchenyuk 3rd overall” his essentially all the proof you need. Despite all the evidence that follows, all the moves that follow, all the decisions on the Centers that followed, that’s your leg to stand on.

There’s nothing there.

Bergevin has refused to properly address the Center ice position in 6 offseasons.

This has been my stance from the beginning. And you’re trying to argue that by telling me who he drafted 6 years ago, and then refused to play him at Center for three seasons. This is how he plans for the Center ice position?

This is your rebuttal to my original statement.

You contested my argument. Not the other way around.
Bergevin has tried bandaids and stop gaps for his Centers. I’m talking about making it a strength of the organization.

If a GM prioritized the Center ice position, then they continuously try to address it TIL a solution is obtained.

You don’t just draft a guy, not play him at Center.

And then I have to actually go through the motion of arguing this? To point this out? It isn’t obvious that he’s neglected the position since he got here.

“I’m building through my Centers”
“I just drafted a Center 3rd overall”
“I’m not playing him at Center for the 3 seasons”

This is a summary of bergevins actions in regards to Galchenyuk playing Center for the Habs, and his “building” of it.

Building through your Centers, means addressing 1C through 4C. Making those 4 players the backbone of your core. Making them comparatively better than the average in the NHL.

Not drafting one guy, not playing him at Center, then slapping your hands together while saying to yourself “job well done Bergie”

 

[Harry22]

Sorry, Does this mean he sucks at everything? Does this mean that nobody can talk about anything positive (the very few we have) until Bergevin is fired?

He sucks at most things. He's great at calling press conferences and making big June trades.