Marc Bergevin -'The answer is in that room'- Edition

[DAChampion]

The Subban book has competition ...

Bergevin could actually blame Putin lol.

 

[Rapala]

For me the most frustrating part is Molson talking as if the only reason fans are frustrated is because of the 1-7 start. I don't know if he really believes that, but I'd rather him not say anything than coming out and confirming once again that he (owner and president) is out of touch with the fan base.

That start was predicted by some and thought very highly likely by others.
The frustration stems more from the actual knowing this lineup sucks to the verification this line up sucks to the denial and spin we've been witnessing ever since on many fronts. But once again we are only delusional fans unable to connect the dots and paint by numbers.

 

[Lshap]

Issues that likely started when the GM hired a coach who had been publicly critical of him as a media pundit, then proceeded to publicly state that he needed to teach him Character...

issues exacerbated when that same GM played a bs "bridge" contract hardball game for no apparent reason that completely ignored the dedication and performance said player had provided the organization from day one of getting drafted.

spin it how you'd like, we of course don't have a smoking gun of MT or MB feeding their friends in the media bs about PK. All we have is an overwhelming amount of evidence that suggests neither coach nor GM wanted the player, despite performance and community involvment that every other team in the league would die for...
we have media rumours of bad behaviour that is completely inconsistent with all other public and private commentary from anyone who has ever dealt with PK the hockey player or person.
we have countless ex teammates who have publicly commented on his dedication, work ethic, and team focused attitude.

It's pretty silly the extent to which what is known continuously gets ignored or downplayed in favor of conjecture and "no smoking gun" deflections against what is otherwise pretty obvious.

If you're citing public quotes from players, then there are public quotes from Bergevin praising Subban. You can choose to believe the players at face value and think Bergevin is lying, but that's purely your own spin. Bottom line here is that there is zero evidence -- as in absolutely nothing -- that our GM did anything different than every other GM in history when trading a star player. Was it a good trade? Now that's a totally different debate. Was it poisoned by an insidious plot undermining the player's reputation? No. Sorry, I know some people are tied to this idea, but management doesn't work overtime colluding with media to create a web of lies about a frikkin hockey player. It makes no sense. It hasn't happened with any other star. It willfully ignores the more credible and plausible scenario that there was acrimony between player, teammates and staff.

I get the unhappiness that we lost a great player and person, but the quest for scapegoats has gotten totally out of hand.

 

[Masao]

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Just post a gif of his ridiculous SCF worthy victory dance.
That is when and where everything started shaking loose.
I was one of the few wondering at the over reaction that ended up spilling out on the streets. Round 2 victories are worth more than I imagined. I'm not saying he incited anything but it didn't help and we looked completely foolish as a City.

That's actually like that in most Canadian cities now. One playoff game win & fans are honking horns & celebrating like that means something. Definitely not just Montreal. I find it weird too.

MB seems like a passionate guy, so not really surprised by his dance. If I'm sure of one thing, he's probably dying inside with this team right now.

 

[PaulD]

If you're citing public quotes from players, then there are public quotes from Bergevin praising Subban. You can choose to believe the players at face value and think Bergevin is lying, but that's purely your own spin. Bottom line here is that there is zero evidence -- as in absolutely nothing -- that our GM did anything different than every other GM in history when trading a star player. Was it a good trade? Now that's a totally different debate. Was it poisoned by an insidious plot undermining the player's reputation? No. Sorry, I know some people are tied to this idea, but management doesn't work overtime colluding with media to create a web of lies about a frikkin hockey player. It makes no sense. It hasn't happened with any other star. It willfully ignores the more credible and plausible scenario that there was acrimony between player, teammates and staff.

I get the unhappiness that we lost a great player and person, but the quest for scapegoats has gotten totally out of hand.

Great post.

A must read for every disgruntled Subban fan club member.

 

[CauZuki]

Lmao.

''What had happened was...''

"...I happened." -Marc Bergevin.

 

[BLONG7]

We should be expecting another extension through 2030 for our GM, anyday, maybe for Christmas?

 

[Puck Luck Run Amok]

Management never accused Subban of anything you mention. You've made that up, or you've confused your info. You've even exaggerated what the media reported, which they got from their own sources, none of which were Bergevin.

So then, the question: Did the media willfully lie, or did they just report? Did journalists fabricate stories, risking their careers to get back at a player? Why would they do this? What motive would they, or anyone, have? And it still doesn't address the nagging question: Why didn't the same rumours surface when other stars were traded, including Shea Weber? Where's their tarnish?

Once again, I'll be clear about this: I love Subban and wish we'd had better people in charge to smooth over the internal issues in the locker room, but I have no doubt there were internal issues.

One, how can you be so sure all the rumours posted about Subban weren't coming from some people in management/the organization who wanted to justify trading the most popular player since Patrick Roy/Saku?

It's perfectly rational to believe at least some of what we heard came from the management level and to answer your questions, journalists report what they hear, journalists also don't have to be propagandists for a egomaniac GM and Coach. Why didn't other rumours surface? Well here's a fact that no one mentions; Shea Weber handcuffed his team by signing an insane contract from the Flyers. Why doesn't Nashville have the same drama? Because they're a classy organization that doesn't run guys out of town and especially won't go after one of their best players in franchise history. Montreal is a media hotbed filled with malicious actors.

Also, I tend to agree that not all of this had to do with management and there were internal issues specifically with the Captain and his entourage. Pacioretty hated PK, for what actual reason I'm not sure but I can tell you that without a doubt. Therrien also hated PK and hated him prior to being coach of the Habs, which was well documented on AC.

 

[PaulD]

Molson saying the fans are only frustrated with the 1-7 start. Can picture MB in his office feeding Molson that line of garbage....and Molson smiling and nodding like a puppy wagging his tale about to be taken for a walk.

 

[David Suzuki]

We should be expecting another extension through 2030 for our GM, anyday, maybe for Christmas?

he's as good as gone mate

if an owner says he has full confidence in a coach or gm it means they're done

 

[justafan22]

He's signed through 2022!

 

[Miller Time]

If you're citing public quotes from players, then there are public quotes from Bergevin praising Subban. You can choose to believe the players at face value and think Bergevin is lying, but that's purely your own spin. Bottom line here is that there is zero evidence -- as in absolutely nothing -- that our GM did anything different than every other GM in history when trading a star player. Was it a good trade? Now that's a totally different debate. Was it poisoned by an insidious plot undermining the player's reputation? No. Sorry, I know some people are tied to this idea, but management doesn't work overtime colluding with media to create a web of lies about a frikkin hockey player. It makes no sense. It hasn't happened with any other star. It willfully ignores the more credible and plausible scenario that there was acrimony between player, teammates and staff.

I get the unhappiness that we lost a great player and person, but the quest for scapegoats has gotten totally out of hand.

It would be crazy to suggest that every GM behaves exactly the same way.

It would also be pretty odd to put more value on a GM's PR comments than on his actions.

Same for players... And what we saw in the actions of players with PK quite consistently is that their on ice performance improved next to him & most engaged positively with his emotional leadership.
A few, notably pacioretty, did not. Again here, pacioretty never publicly disparaged him, yet his actions & physical responses spoke volumes.

So, yes, I do think MB's actions and behaviours clearly demonstrated he at best did not value the player. And yes, I think it is very reasonable with the evidence in front of us to suggest there was a strong likelyhood that he had a hand in spreading the odd rumors that emmerged.

 

[JLP]

...Was it poisoned by an insidious plot undermining the player's reputation? No. Sorry, I know some people are tied to this idea, but management doesn't work overtime colluding with media to create a web of lies about a frikkin hockey player. It makes no sense..

Straw man. Bergy traded Subban because Therrien and the provincial media did not like Subban. There is plenty of evidence for that. Media backed up Therrien and Bergevin because that's what they do, there is plenty of evidence for that as well. No one had to work overtime, plot or collude it just was a natural result given the existing conditions.

 

[Rapala]

If you're citing public quotes from players, then there are public quotes from Bergevin praising Subban. You can choose to believe the players at face value and think Bergevin is lying, but that's purely your own spin. Bottom line here is that there is zero evidence -- as in absolutely nothing -- that our GM did anything different than every other GM in history when trading a star player. Was it a good trade? Now that's a totally different debate. Was it poisoned by an insidious plot undermining the player's reputation? No. Sorry, I know some people are tied to this idea, but management doesn't work overtime colluding with media to create a web of lies about a frikkin hockey player. It makes no sense. It hasn't happened with any other star. It willfully ignores the more credible and plausible scenario that there was acrimony between player, teammates and staff.

I get the unhappiness that we lost a great player and person, but the quest for scapegoats has gotten totally out of hand.

Sorry I disagree.
We came out of the ECF understanding a number of things about this team.
1) This was Subban's team and both he and Eller were undisputably core players more so than either Max or Davey.
2) Our shutdown center struggled to a -7 once all was said and done which was totally unacceptable on a contender.
3) Teams would and could run Carey Price with impunity as we had no real dissuader Prust was cooked by then.
4) The addition of Thomas Vanek altered the make-up of our lines to the point we had more of our depth players in their proper chairs.
5) Our D was still missing a critical component as Emelin was obviously an overpaid third pairing guy.

So how was this addressed by our mighty management...

PK was muzzled and although Eller was given a new contract he was not given the second center ice time he deserved and was successful with in the post season. He was also targeted by the french media straight out of the gate as if the previous post season did not happen. You had to read protectionism into it there was no other possible reasoning.

Galchenyuk was still tied to the wing.
We didn't address the need for a Vanek type upgrade.
We didn't find a replacement for Prust.
Our tandem of Plek DD were kept in place as stakeholders.
We continued to believe we couldn't do without Max despite his lack of presence in the meaningful games and yes it was pointed out at the time. This team could, would, and should have been much better with proper trades using assets that still retained some value.

Emelin kept in the top 4 and put back on his strong side which didn't help much.

Queue the transition year pre-curser to the fox hole year.
Not one of these moves were made. I can only surmise the answers would have been very unpopular to some and were disregarded out of hand. But let's be honest here management were not allowing for point number one to happen. This was never going to be PK's team his crew were slowly moved out. It was going to be MB's team organized by yes men with no show of emotion or celebration or fun. Just what MB referred to as Character.

The tarnishing and what I called a trial balloon you claim never happened was clearly remarked on once the media outlets started ragging on PK despite the fact that he and Eller were doing all and the only heavy lifting during the worst stretch of hockey in Habs history. There was the presser where PK had to eat and was blamed for Max's blunder around the same time he threw the words "I'm not paid to score goals" back in everyone's face something that was drilled into his head by the management and no doubt. Fans were crying out for MT's dismissal long before the trade deadline and any possible major moves. The climax to the whole scene was the eventual Eller, Weise, and PK trades. This eventually led to Carey Price stating unequivocally "We'd lost lost our Identity"
What we have today is the end result of backing the wrong horses.
This was called out real time and although some of it is conjecture I'd like someone/anyone to provide another scenario that comes even remotely close to fitting the facts.

 

[theghost1]

Gretzky,Lemieux,Lafleur any great offensive player you can name did not develop by being held back by a defensive coach....you need to let players like Drouin,Galchenyuk be creative play on instinct,need to let Mete pinch and push the play....time to fire Bergevin and Julien and start the rebuild some now the rest in the off season.

 

[Masao]

be creative play on instinct

In Montreal? Lol.

 

[MaxDummy]

you need to let players like Drouin,Galchenyuk be creative play on instinct,

Galchenyuk has no instinct left in his game. He thinks 20 times before doing anything. Wasnt like that when he was a rookie. The same is starting to happen with Drouin.

 

[Rapala]

Galchenyuk has no instinct left in his game. He thinks 20 times before doing anything. Wasnt like that when he was a rookie. The same is starting to happen with Drouin.

That is why you try to draft guys who posses some of the unteachable stuff.
But for some reason we try to stuff them in an outdated and obviously small minded box.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Great post.

A must read for every disgruntled Subban fan club member.

You wouldn't believe the membership dues, and for what? A crappy newsletter!

 

[Rapala]

That's actually like that in most Canadian cities now. One playoff game win & fans are honking horns & celebrating like that means something. Definitely not just Montreal. I find it weird too.

MB seems like a passionate guy, so not really surprised by his dance. If I'm sure of one thing, he's probably dying inside with this team right now.

The only reason I bring it up is I was upset at the reaction at the time prior to the Rags series and actually posted as much. I actually ran down the Rags roster and used every tool in my vocabulary to try and instill some hate prior to the ECF but man were people ever riding that cloud.

As I posted in this thread my biggest disappointment remains to be how little we actually learned from that ECF.

I still remember the optimism and participation on these boards the following pre season.
Pages and Pages of speculation on all the good things that were going to happen. The something Big in the Air thread. How many people were logged into the preseason scrums on RDS it was exhilarating. We all felt MB knew and was going to address the issues. Then later that year Bergevin's transition stance left me aghast.

 

[groovejuice]

Molson saying the fans are only frustrated with the 1-7 start. Can picture MB in his office feeding Molson that line of garbage....and Molson smiling and nodding like a puppy wagging his tale about to be taken for a walk.

I don't know about a walk, but undoubtedly Bergevin has taken Molson for a ride.

 

[DAChampion]

The Habs have developed one great offensive player in the 21st century:

PK Subban.

 

[Goldenhands]

1 g 1 a last night for Sergachev at the highest in the race for the Calder!! Go Bergevin Go!!

 

[Rapala]

The Habs have developed one great offensive player in the 21st century:

PK Subban.

LOL unfortunately our Management is operating in a different century.