Prospect Info: Magic Marner returns to London.

[Woll Smoth]

I think he's talking about how there was an idea by fans (and management if I'm remembering correctly) to try Kessel at center since he had played center in College and for USNTDP.

Similar to how the expectation this year for Marner in London is for him to be a center (sort of like how Drouin went from being a wing to a center in the Q in his post drat year), and the hope would be that he transitions to center at the NHL level.

Not that I agree with the idea, since Kessel played three seasons at RW in the NHL, making the comparison a little rough.

Marner was a natural C up until his first year playing Jr. I could see him following a similar path as Kadri did, playing wing until he was used to playing in the league he was in and transitioning to C.

 

[theIceWookie]

This is big year for Marner.

After struggling at his first camp despite putting up junior OHL numbers that rival some of the NHLs elite (Stamkos, Kane, McDavid, Hall, Tavares, Seguin etc) and top picks he was returned to junior while most of the other elite players in their draft years began their NHL careers.

Due to Marner's small size he was the exception to the rule of being NHL ready at 18 so more seasoning and growing is required which is understandable.

However after this current junior year he is about to try his luck again next Leafs camp and if he isn't big enough nor strong enough nor mentally ready now at 19 he faces the possibility of being returned to London for a 2nd time post draft year.

I would imagine this will be a strong motivator for Mitch to work hard on and off the ice making that decision real tough next year for the Leafs management to demote him. So competing for a OHL scoring title, trying to lead his team to the Memorial Cup, helping Canada to WJC gold all this year's agenda as well as nutrition, diet and strength gain.

Give me a break Mess.

Marner is hardly the first top 5 pick to be sent back because he was physically immatutre. He's not even the first to be sent down for any reason. Let's not try too hard to make this an issue worth worrying about. Because it's not at all.

Since 2010 Huberdeau, Drouin, Johansen, Ryan Strome, Sam Reinhart, Leon Draisaitl (eventually), Michael Dal Colle, Nino Nieds and Sam Bennett were all sent back to Junior in their first post draft seasons. That's exactly half of the 18 forwards taken in the top 5 since the 2010 draft. And you could very easily make the argument that some of the nine who didn't get sent down should have been sent down (RNH for example) and that Yakupov and Galchenyuk shouldn't even be including in the discussion since they had the luxury of spending half the season in other leagues beside the NHL because of the lockout (Yakupov in the K, and Gally in the O), which brings the number to 9 out of 16.

So frankly it's not only a stretch to say MOST of the elite players in their draft years begin their NHL careers, it's flat out wrong. I wouldn't even worry all that much if he was returned next year to London. It wouldn't be the first time a top 5 pick has been sent down twice. Florida did it with Huberdeau and it seemed to work out fine. For very similar reasons Marner was sent down this year.

And finally, it astounds me that this needs to be said AGAIN, but there is no rule in development. Not a single damn one. Development is not a one size fits all program that just happens. It's different for every player that goes through it. Stop trying to make it something that's a linear equation for every single player ever.

 

[Durrr]

Oh my this is some fun narrative setting bs.

Marner is hardly the first top 5 pick to be sent back because he was physically immatutre. Let's not try too hard to make this an issue worth worrying about. Because it's not at all.

Since 2010 Huberdeau, Drouin, Johansen, Ryan Strome, Sam Reinhart, Leon Draisaitl (eventually), Michael Dal Colle, Nino Nieds and Sam Bennett were all sent back to Junior in their first post draft seasons. That's exactly half of the 18 forwards taken in the top 5 since the 2010 draft. And you could very easily make the argument that some of the nine who didn't get sent down should have been sent down (RNH for example) and that Yakupov and Galchenyuk shouldn't even be including in the discussion since they had the luxury of spending half the season in other leagues beside the NHL because of the lockout (Yakupov in the K, and Gally in the O), which brings the number to 9 out of 16.

So frankly it's not only a stretch to say MOST of the elite players in their draft years begin their NHL careers, it's flat out wrong. I wouldn't even worry all that much if he was returned next year to London. It wouldn't be the first time a top 5 pick has been sent down twice. Florida did it with Huberdeau and it seemed to work out fine. For very similar reasons Marner was sent down this year.

And finally, it astounds me that this needs to be said AGAIN, but there is no rule in development. Not a single damn one. Development is not a one size fits all program that just happens. It's different for every player that goes through it. Stop trying to make it something that's a linear equation for every single player ever.

This post is like a breath of fresh air lol, you're completely right about the narrative in this place, its complete BS. Honestly I would even remove 1st round picks from those numbers because there seems to be an unwritten rule that recent 1st overall picks get a pass into the NHL, regardless of their development. RNH and Yakupov are huge examples.

 

[theIceWookie]

This post is like a breath of fresh air lol, you're completely right about the narrative in this place, its complete BS. Honestly I would even remove 1st round picks from those numbers because there seems to be an unwritten rule that recent 1st overall picks get a pass into the NHL, regardless of their development. RNH and Yakupov are huge examples.

Yeah you're probably right. If you do that, it makes the numbers more stark.

Removing first overall picks (I can't remember the last time a first overall didn't play right away), 9 out of 13 top five picks were returned for at least one post draft year.

Which makes it an overwhelming majority of elite players in the top 5 being sent back for a year.

This is a total non-issue.

 

[Durrr]

Yeah you're probably right. If you do that, it makes the numbers more stark.

Removing first overall picks (I can't remember the last time a first overall didn't play right away), 9 out of 13 top five picks were returned for at least one post draft year.

Which makes it an overwhelming majority of elite players in the top 5 being sent back for a year.

This is a total non-issue.

It's funny because I'm pretty sure most people assumed he was going back, but because he didn't pot a flashy goal or two he's apperently 3 years from being NHL ready.

 

[KGL]

I still think he's ready next year. All he needs is some extra size.

 

[King85Kong]

I like this move. Marner appeared to not be ready for the NHL and will be able to work further on improving his game in London. Hopefully he has a great year and will be ready to go for the Leafs next season. Plus when he is done the OHL season he can join the Marlies for their Playoff run. Good luck to Marner

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah you're probably right. If you do that, it makes the numbers more stark.

Removing first overall picks (I can't remember the last time a first overall didn't play right away), 9 out of 13 top five picks were returned for at least one post draft year.

Which makes it an overwhelming majority of elite players in the top 5 being sent back for a year.

This is a total non-issue.

In a recent poll 80% thought Marner would have been 1st. or 2nd. overall, 36% thought he would be 1st. overall if not for franchise players Eichel and McDavid.

Only 19% thought he'd be 3rd. or later.

How many 1st. overalls are sent back?
How many 2nd. overalls are sent back?

I know people get excited and overhype a hometown pick, and disparage an opponent pick.

 

[Daisy Jane]

It's funny because I'm pretty sure most people assumed he was going back, but because he didn't pot a flashy goal or two he's apperently 3 years from being NHL ready.

and completely the wrong choice, bleh blah bleh.

my main concern would be if he doesn't look like he belongs - period. we haven't really gotten that yet at all, and I don't know or understand how people can leap to this conclusion after 4 "pro" games (2 rookie camp and 2 pre-season games).

 

[Durrr]

In a recent poll 80% thought Marner would have been 1st. or 2nd. overall, 36% thought he would be 1st. overall if not for franchise players Eichel and McDavid.

Only 19% thought he'd be 3rd. or later.

How many 1st. overalls are sent back?
How many 2nd. overalls are sent back?

I know people get excited and overhype a hometown pick, and disparage an opponent pick.

We just finished discussing how most 1st overalls make the jump based on being 1st overalls alone. Anyways, you don't need a poll to tell you where he's ranked among recent top draft picks, just look at his offensive output.

Much like Nugent-Hopkins, Marner could have made the jump this year but it would more then likley have been the wrong choice.

 

[Woll Smoth]

In a recent poll 80% thought Marner would have been 1st. or 2nd. overall, 36% thought he would be 1st. overall if not for franchise players Eichel and McDavid.

Only 19% thought he'd be 3rd. or later.

How many 1st. overalls are sent back?
How many 2nd. overalls are sent back?

I know people get excited and overhype a hometown pick, and disparage an opponent pick.

What does it matter what people thought? He was 4th overall in the 2015 draft. He wasn't a hypothetical 1st/2nd/3rd overall in some other year because it makes people feel even better about the pick.

It's honestly a joke.

How many 3rd - 6th overall picks are sent back? I could see the Leafs picking Marner 3rd if they were given the chance, and the furthest I could see Marner dropping was 6th in the draft. He was taken 4th. Look no futher than Drouin (who I thought was drafted 4th). Even Dal Colle just got sent down.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is big year for Marner.

After struggling at his first camp despite putting up junior OHL numbers that rival some of the NHLs elite (Stamkos, Kane, McDavid, Hall, Tavares, Seguin etc) and top picks he was returned to junior while most of the other elite players in their draft years began their NHL careers.

Due to Marner's small size he was the exception to the rule of being NHL ready at 18 so more seasoning and growing is required which is understandable.

However after this current junior year he is about to try his luck again next Leafs camp and if he isn't big enough nor strong enough nor mentally ready now at 19 he faces the possibility of being returned to London for a 2nd time post draft year.

I would imagine this will be a strong motivator for Mitch to work hard on and off the ice making that decision real tough next year for the Leafs management to demote him. So competing for a OHL scoring title, trying to lead his team to the Memorial Cup, helping Canada to WJC gold all this year's agenda as well as nutrition, diet and strength gain.

Hahaa. I'm starting to see a pattern in your Marner posts lol. He was never given a chance to even have a second thought other than going back to London. If Babcock had put him on a line with Brown and Nylander or Kadri mixed in to the mix of them four forming a line then you think the leafs are having a sincere look.

That didn't happen. They were sending him back all the time, everyday. I really don't think he has to do any better than the phenomenal season he had last year in london. I am glad he only has to win a Memorial cup and wjhc gold medal for you. You really need to raise your expectations of him ha.

Boy if he declines below 2 points a game we are in trouble eh! The only think he needs to work on is strength and quickness. I'm not heaping any expectations on him personally.

 

[Dragao6]

There are two things everyone Needs to remember.
1. There is Noone on this leafs roster that marner or nylander will learn from cause out roster is aweful, Noone to protect these young kids from nhl goons.
2. They will be both sent down because I know these two guys will be good nhlr's but what I want is for these 2 to be top line stars so yeah send them down to keep developing skill and physically, keep their confidence super high because that's what elite players need...Confidence in that they are better yhen everyone else.
I expect nylander to play some games this year but he will be in top 6 forwards next year along with brown and slowly others trickle is and we trade away deadweight on this roster Burke and Nonis left us.

 

[Dragao6]

Hahaa. I'm starting to see a pattern in your Marner posts lol. He was never given a chance to even have a second thought other than going back to London. If Babcock had put him on a line with Brown and Nylander or Kadri mixed in to the mix of them four forming a line then you think the leafs are having a sincere look.

That didn't happen. They were sending him back all the time, everyday. I really don't think he has to do any better than the phenomenal season he had last year in london. I am glad he only has to win a Memorial cup and wjhc gold medal for you. You really need to raise your expectations of him ha.

Boy if he declines below 2 points a game we are in trouble eh! The only think he needs to work on is strength and quickness. I'm not heaping any expectations on him personally.

Quickness?? Really u obviously don't know this kid. Marner took off 2 or 3 times only in preseason and u could tell howuch faster he was to others, his skating is the one thing I'm not concerned about. When marner gets alittle stronger and gets comfortable of nhl players hitting him u will see him take off. Not too worried with thus pick. Another ohl scoring leader and world juniors is the best thing this kid can do this year.

 

[Woll Smoth]

Quickness?? Really u obviously don't know this kid. Marner took off 2 or 3 times only in preseason and u could tell howuch faster he was to others, his skating is the one thing I'm not concerned about. When marner gets alittle stronger and gets comfortable of nhl players hitting him u will see him take off. Not too worried with thus pick. Another ohl scoring leader and world juniors is the best thing this kid can do this year.

Might mean his explosiveness. He needs to get stronger to become explosive with his first couple of strides. Could make a big difference.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Might mean his explosiveness. He needs to get stronger to become explosive with his first couple of strides. Could make a big difference.

Yep exactly what i meant. He moves well enough. Strength in them chicken legs will help.

 

[ULF_55]

Quickness?? Really u obviously don't know this kid. Marner took off 2 or 3 times only in preseason and u could tell howuch faster he was to others, his skating is the one thing I'm not concerned about. When marner gets alittle stronger and gets comfortable of nhl players hitting him u will see him take off. Not too worried with thus pick. Another ohl scoring leader and world juniors is the best thing this kid can do this year.

Might mean his explosiveness. He needs to get stronger to become explosive with his first couple of strides. Could make a big difference.

I was expecting much better skating.

I suppose the difference was seeing how he looked playing against boys, and at Leafs camp he was playing against older players and pros.

I got seduced by those who talked him up way too high.

 

[Woll Smoth]

I was expecting much better skating.

I suppose the difference was seeing how he looked playing against boys, and at Leafs camp he was playing against older players and pros.

I got seduced by those who talked him up way too high.

I didn't catch any pre season games other than a few minutes here so I can't comment on how he played against the pros. But a lot of us have been hoping he can improve his first few steps since before the draft, which should come with improved strength. I wouldn't be worried about his skating tbh.

As for the last part of your post, there are way too many posters that need to temper their expectations in all matters regarding the Leafs. It's actually really worse than before.

 

[Menzinger]

What does it matter what people thought? He was 4th overall in the 2015 draft. He wasn't a hypothetical 1st/2nd/3rd overall in some other year because it makes people feel even better about the pick.

It's honestly a joke.

How many 3rd - 6th overall picks are sent back? I could see the Leafs picking Marner 3rd if they were given the chance, and the furthest I could see Marner dropping was 6th in the draft. He was taken 4th. Look no futher than Drouin (who I thought was drafted 4th). Even Dal Colle just got sent down.

Yep.

This whole discussion is silly. Lots of high end prospects get sent back down.

And others probably should have to round out heir game more (ie Seguin).

 

[TimeZone]

I was expecting much better skating.

I suppose the difference was seeing how he looked playing against boys, and at Leafs camp he was playing against older players and pros.

I got seduced by those who talked him up way too high.

He's not an elite skater but he has a very good top gear. His acceleration needs work though. That'll come with added strength.

 

[613Leafer]

Marner needs to add muscle and hasnt played centre in three years. If we want him to be a C at the NHL level, going back to London was pretty necessary IMO.

Get a full year playing C again, avoid the dumpster fire that could very well be the Leafs this season, add ~10-15lbs of muscle, play at the WJCs as hopefully a contender for tournament MVP, and come in ready to go next September.

I dont get what some people are freaking out about. This was a 4th OA pick, these typically dont step right into the NHL, especially if theyre undersized and play C.

 

[crump]

Anybody who watched him at the World Juniors camp and exhibition games this summer will have seen him against his peers and will have seen how dominant he can be. Another year to fill out and he will look closer to that player. We didn't see anything close to what he is capable of in this preseason. The NHL team is pretty much an expansion level team in terms of talent. Don't want him in that environment at all.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Marner needs to add muscle and hasnt played centre in three years. If we want him to be a C at the NHL level, going back to London was pretty necessary IMO.

Get a full year playing C again, avoid the dumpster fire that could very well be the Leafs this season, add ~10-15lbs of muscle, play at the WJCs as hopefully a contender for tournament MVP, and come in ready to go next September.

I dont get what some people are freaking out about. This was a 4th OA pick, these typically dont step right into the NHL, especially if theyre undersized and play C.

Yup.

 

[jjjshab]

Marner needs to add muscle and hasnt played centre in three years. If we want him to be a C at the NHL level, going back to London was pretty necessary IMO.

Get a full year playing C again, avoid the dumpster fire that could very well be the Leafs this season, add ~10-15lbs of muscle, play at the WJCs as hopefully a contender for tournament MVP, and come in ready to go next September.

I dont get what some people are freaking out about. This was a 4th OA pick, these typically dont step right into the NHL, especially if theyre undersized and play C.

He played centre last year in the playoffs where he went ham.

Just read the HF article that came out yesterday on the Leafs prospects. Anyone else notice that they changed Marner's rating? Used to be 8.5 D and everyone freaked out, now 8.5 C.

Thought it was interesting

 

[Mess]

Anybody who watched him at the World Juniors camp and exhibition games this summer will have seen him against his peers and will have seen how dominant he can be. Another year to fill out and he will look closer to that player. We didn't see anything close to what he is capable of in this preseason. The NHL team is pretty much an expansion level team in terms of talent. Don't want him in that environment at all.

Agreed, he wasn't ready mentally nor physically to play in the NHL this year and his camp demonstrated that quite clearly despite his 2.0 PPG and top 5 pick status.

Most kids get cut their 1st NHL camp and sent back down, and only the exceptional ones make it right after being drafted to begin their NHL careers immediately when teams deem them ready &/or too good for junior and in the right mindset to turn pro at 18.

Marner still has a lot to learn and work on, but he gained a lot of experience however now on what its going to take to play pro hockey in the NHL, and hopefully he applies himself on and off the ice to come back next year and make it tougher for management to cut him again, when he is bigger/stronger and more confident.

Absolutely no reason for concern this year, however if we're having this same conversation over a similar demotion result next year, then some doubt will begin to creep in and rightfully so if he still needs 2+ years of junior development and struggling to make the NHL.

Its going to be exciting to follow him this year to see how he progresses and he matures and what highlights this season will bring.