Prospect Info: Magic Marner returns to London.

[jjjshab]

What is Marner upside? Dougie of 92-93 or Giroux as 1C or is he Patrick Kane or St. Louis or Johnny Hockey as a scoring winger?
As a Leafs fan, ofcourse I want Marner to become as good as one of those five and Hanifin is Luke Schenn and Aki Berg 2.0.
Reality is I think both will be great players and since the Leafs already have Morgan and Jake(someone who could be top pairing), and pretty much no top end forwards beside Nylander, it was the right move to pick Marner.

I've never agreed with the comparisons to Kane. Aside from the occasional flash and similar statures, they are nothing alike. I'm a big fan of Kane (recent drama notwithstanding), but Marner is a different kind of beast.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That being said. Given Marners size and probability to be a right winger. Arent we kinda doing the same thing we did years back getting Kessel?

What happened to the people with 2 months to go till the draft thinking wed be lucky to be in a position to draft Hanafin id say 60% of posters. Not because I hate on Marner im just more interested in building a steady team and a guaranteed large top 4 D man fits that bill. I mean if Marner was 6 ft 180 and was assured top 2 centreman I might understand, but hes a bit of a project, shiny toy, type player. I also had my reservations about Strome because of his lack of mobility. Im just not going to say Shany Dubas, Hunter get a pass on decisions because Nonis destroyed our team once again. Im looking for sensible moves getting value for value and I havent seen anything theyve done moving along those lines. I would have preffered Lou making the decisions regarding Kessel and who we drafted this year.

Did we trade our future for Marner? What are you even talking about?

 

[Atomos2]

I am honestly expecting Marner to put up the best OHL season in history. There is basically no precedent for that high a scorer in his draft year coming back to the league. If he can do a top-10 all-time OHL season in his draft year, he should be shooting for the best OHL season by any player. If not.... he's not as good as we think. But I think he is.

Then you'll be disappointed.

 

[Brock Radunske]

I am honestly expecting Marner to put up the best OHL season in history. There is basically no precedent for that high a scorer in his draft year coming back to the league. If he can do a top-10 all-time OHL season in his draft year, he should be shooting for the best OHL season by any player. If not.... he's not as good as we think. But I think he is.

Maybe but if he doesn't start playing with his head up, he'll be eating through a straw...

 

[WTFMAN99]

LOL that is because noticing that kind of stuff is a little weird and has no bearing on on-ice performance. Anybody is really reaching for excuses for the kid if they're blaming a new brand of gloves or sticks on his average performance.

I'm not a high end player so I can't speak for guys like Marner and such, but I imagine if you use a new stick with a new flex/whip, or curve etc then you're used to it would take a while to get used to...or you may be flat out uncomfortable with the stick. That being said apparently he'd been using the stick for a while but he switched gloves but I can't imagine that those would make any real significant difference.

 

[ULF_55]

The comparisons will always be there: 1) Because we're Leafs fans and we can't help ourselves, and 2) Because this is potentially a franchise-altering pick. Obviously, at this point in both their careers, it's a bit premature to compare them with any gauge on their future success (or lack thereof).

Out of curiosity, if both Marner and Hanifin hit their ceiling, how would your opinion shift?

I've watched Noah a bit through the last season (WJC, couple BC games) and came away generally unimpressed - at least in comparison to the hype he'd been getting all year long.

I suppose that makes sense, since he was probably always the youngest player on the ice. Playing NCAA at 17. Still has room to grow physically and strength wise. Played 25 minutes last night against Washington.

Look at Marner this preseason, probably the most immature player on the ice and he didn't look good.

 

[ULF_55]

Why, what's happening the next few years that hasn't already happened the previous 10?

Marner's a work in progress and you can evaluate him at any point on what his snapshot is. I like the direction we went in when we picked him and I like his upside, but that doesn't mean you have to like everything you see all the time or have to defend him constantly.

That's true, and regardless of what he does in junior, it is what he does in the NHL that Leafs' fans are interested in.

Knights fans and CHL fans are irrelevant to the Leafs. Marner could win 2 Memorial Cups, and I could give two hoots about it.

I expected more from Marner, but then again I expected more from the team. Other than a little bit from Nylander and Brown, I wouldn't say anyone has really made you go wow!

Perhaps Marner was more a victim of poor team, and as the boy amongst men, we shouldn't have expected to be impressed. We ended up on the wrong side of the draft lottery to be impressed (Eichel/McDavid).

 

[Mess]

This is big year for Marner.

After struggling at his first camp despite putting up junior OHL numbers that rival some of the NHLs elite (Stamkos, Kane, McDavid, Hall, Tavares, Seguin etc) and top picks he was returned to junior while most of the other elite players in their draft years began their NHL careers.

Due to Marner's small size he was the exception to the rule of being NHL ready at 18 so more seasoning and growing is required which is understandable.

However after this current junior year he is about to try his luck again next Leafs camp and if he isn't big enough nor strong enough nor mentally ready now at 19 he faces the possibility of being returned to London for a 2nd time post draft year.

I would imagine this will be a strong motivator for Mitch to work hard on and off the ice making that decision real tough next year for the Leafs management to demote him. So competing for a OHL scoring title, trying to lead his team to the Memorial Cup, helping Canada to WJC gold all this year's agenda as well as nutrition, diet and strength gain.

 

[thewave]

This is big year for Marner.

After struggling at his first camp despite putting up junior OHL numbers that rival some of the NHLs elite (Stamkos, Kane, McDavid, Hall, Tavares, Seguin etc) and top picks he was returned to junior while most of the other elite players in their draft years began their NHL careers.

Due to Marner's small size he was the exception to the rule of being NHL ready at 18 so more seasoning and growing is required which is understandable.

However after this current junior year he is about to try his luck again next Leafs camp and if he isn't big enough nor strong enough nor mentally ready now at 19 he faces the possibility of being returned to London for a 2nd time post draft year.

I would imagine this will be a strong motivator for Mitch to work hard on and off the ice making that decision real tough next year for the Leafs management to demote him. So competing for a OHL scoring title, trying to lead his team to the Memorial Cup, helping Canada to WJC gold all this year's agenda as well as nutrition, diet and strength gain.

He was the huge gamble that we all hope pays off. I figure his odds are about 1st liner 25% 2nd 50% bust 25%

Really he is either top 6 or nothing.

 

[Durrr]

Did we trade our future for Marner? What are you even talking about?

He's trying to get a reaction by spouting nonsense.

 

[Durrr]

This is big year for Marner.

After struggling at his first camp despite putting up junior OHL numbers that rival some of the NHLs elite (Stamkos, Kane, McDavid, Hall, Tavares, Seguin etc) and top picks he was returned to junior while most of the other elite players in their draft years began their NHL careers.

Due to Marner's small size he was the exception to the rule of being NHL ready at 18 so more seasoning and growing is required which is understandable.

However after this current junior year he is about to try his luck again next Leafs camp and if he isn't big enough nor strong enough nor mentally ready now at 19 he faces the possibility of being returned to London for a 2nd time post draft year.

I would imagine this will be a strong motivator for Mitch to work hard on and off the ice making that decision real tough next year for the Leafs management to demote him. So competing for a OHL scoring title, trying to lead his team to the Memorial Cup, helping Canada to WJC gold all this year's agenda as well as nutrition, diet and strength gain.

Marner did not struggle at camp, he struggled in 1 game where he was put in a 3rd/4th line role. People know he's a top 6 or bust player, yet they expect him to excel at his first camp in a BOTTOM 6 role? Cmon.

Look at the other top draftees, they're all playing top 6 roles and looking fine, yet Marner was never given that opportunity for an extended period. I'm not sure if people were even watching his second game or just looking at the stat sheet, but Marner looked good despite not getting a point. I'm not saying that Marner is NHL ready or anything (he's not), but people are trashing this kid when they have no idea what they are talking about.

I can't believe this many people can't see what management did this camp with the young players. How is it that Nylander/Brown/Percy are still playing reduced minutes, and likley going back to the AHL, when they've stood out almost every night they've played?

 

[Mess]

Marner did not struggle at camp, he struggled in 1 game where he was put in a 3rd/4th line role. People know he's a top 6 or bust player, yet they expect him to excel at his first camp in a BOTTOM 6 role? Cmon.

Look at the other top draftees, they're all playing top 6 roles and looking fine, yet Marner was never given that opportunity for an extended period. I'm not sure if people were even watching his second game or just looking at the stat sheet, but Marner looked good despite not getting a point.

I can't believe this many people can't see what management did this camp with the young players.

This year is spilt milk and since he was cut getting only 2 games and sent to junior you/we can't change that now, regardless if you want to defend his performance or not. If he played better he would have gotten more opportunity to play more games. Babcock had seen enough to make sending him down an easy decision early in camp.

My post is really about this being a big year for Marner because he puts himself into a bad situation if he gets cut and sent back to London after next year's camp.

Marner put up 2.0 points/game in his draft year and I would imagine most believe he will again put up similar stats and compete for a OHL scoring championship. That will not ensure him a spot on the Leafs however, repeating last years stats as that is not the reason he was cut this year.

Marner has to make sure that this is the last year he gets sent back to junior, based on his on and off ice work and his performance next year in camp because he can't go to the AHL and so its NHL or OHL again. That 2nd post draft junior year will be a waste really as he would have nothing left to prove at that level.

 

[Menzinger]

This is why I like management's long term vision when it comes to prospect development. It seems as if they are putting very little emphasis on extremely small sample sizes (2 preseason games for example) when evaluating a player's progress. It's all about a at a sample size.

Big picture > short term

 

[pacman25]

The Knights named Marner a co-captain along with Dvorak

 

[LV*]

The Knights named Marner a co-captain along with Dvorak

nice.

 

[ACC1224]

This year is spilt milk and since he was cut getting only 2 games and sent to junior you/we can't change that now, regardless if you want to defend his performance or not. If he played better he would have gotten more opportunity to play more games. Babcock had seen enough to make sending him down an easy decision early in camp.

My post is really about this being a big year for Marner because he puts himself into a bad situation if he gets cut and sent back to London after next year's camp.

Marner put up 2.0 points/game in his draft year and I would imagine most believe he will again put up similar stats and compete for a OHL scoring championship. That will not ensure him a spot on the Leafs however, repeating last years stats as that is not the reason he was cut this year.

Marner has to make sure that this is the last year he gets sent back to junior, based on his on and off ice work and his performance next year in camp because he can't go to the AHL and so its NHL or OHL again. That 2nd post draft junior year will be a waste really as he would have nothing left to prove at that level.

The decision was made before Camp started, Marner knew this.

 

[Mess]

He was the huge gamble that we all hope pays off. I figure his odds are about 1st liner 25% 2nd 50% bust 25%

Really he is either top 6 or nothing.

I think management believes Marner being a 1st liner is still >> 85% at this point in time, as it should be.

He needs to get bigger, stronger and faster and mature as they're banking on his skill/talent level being transferable at the NHL level.

While I'm sure management/fans had hoped he would have had a bigger showing in making a 1st impression, while being a late cut after a strong camp, I think the plan was always 99% chance he was going to be sent back to the OHL from the very start even prior to the rookie tournament. His fate was predetermined at draft time.

No reason for concern or lowering expectations at this point. IMO

 

[Woll Smoth]

The Knights named Marner a co-captain along with Dvorak

Posted this in August in the closed Marner thread:

-Stay in Jr.
-Captain of his team
-Play the year as the #1 center
-Challenge for the OHL scoring title
-Have a strong WJC performance
-Lead his team on a deep memorial cup run


So far it's looking good, other than being cut from camp a bit earlier than I expected he's right on track.

I think comparing him to other first overall picks to see where he's at in his development sets Marner up for failure, and I know some people believe Marner could have been a 1st, 2nd, 3rd overall in other drafts, but the reality of it is he's the 4th overall pick in 2015. If you need to make comparisons, look at Tampa Bays 4th overall pick.

 

[Mess]

The Knights named Marner a co-captain along with Dvorak

London Knights ‏@GoLondonKnights

We are excited to announce that @Marner93 & @10_CD have been named Co-Captains for the 2015-16 season!(Photo LFP)

 

[Atomos2]

The Knights named Marner a co-captain along with Dvorak

So kinda like a Briére-Drury type thing?

 

[theIceWookie]

Did we trade our future for Marner? What are you even talking about?

I think he's talking about how there was an idea by fans (and management if I'm remembering correctly) to try Kessel at center since he had played center in College and for USNTDP.

Similar to how the expectation this year for Marner in London is for him to be a center (sort of like how Drouin went from being a wing to a center in the Q in his post drat year), and the hope would be that he transitions to center at the NHL level.

Not that I agree with the idea, since Kessel played three seasons at RW in the NHL, making the comparison a little rough.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think he's talking about how there was an idea by fans (and management if I'm remembering correctly) to try Kessel at center since he had played center in College and for USNTDP.

Similar to how the expectation this year for Marner in London is for him to be a center (sort of like how Drouin went from being a wing to a center in the Q in his post drat year), and the hope would be that he transitions to center at the NHL level.

Not that I agree with the idea, since Kessel played three seasons at RW in the NHL, making the comparison a little rough.

Giroux initially broke in on the wing before transitioning to centre.

 

[theIceWookie]

At some point, I don't care about his backstory. Yes he's small, yes he's 18, yes it's his first rodeo, yes it was only two games, yes I'm a fan, yes I believe in his long term upside. But it wasn't up to snuff and he has a long way to go.

Context be damned right? Loving that attitude lol

 

[theIceWookie]

Giroux initially broke in on the wing before transitioning to centre.

Yep, it's been done, Seguin too. I just think it needs to happen relatively fast after making the NHL. Not three seasons later like Kessel. A year at the wing, then a year making the transition, then full time in year three. That's my theory anyways.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yep, it's been done, Seguin too. I just think it needs to happen relatively fast after making the NHL. Not three seasons later like Kessel. A year at the wing, then a year making the transition, then full time in year three. That's my theory anyways.

Yeah for sure, I think they initially had him on 3rd line wing (they had a very deep forward group!) and then 2nd year I think they had him on 3rd line centre behind Carter and Richards (Briere moved to wing) - and then I *believe* that summer they moved Richards and Carter. Hard to remember all this.