LW Yevgeni Svechnikov (2015, 19th, DET)

[Atas2000]

Svechnikov played 3 KHL games. I'm sure there was a reasonable amount of sniffing going on.

Can't you just admit that I'm right before we start counting seconds of ice time?

 

[93LEAFS]

Its been sayed many times, Kucherov isnt NA product but MHL. I think you understand that 30 games is nothing in terms of development.

Apparently 1 minute of CHL coaching is enough to ruin some. But he's a MHL product, but coming to NA before establishing himself as a KHL player didn't ruin him like some claim on other prospects. Has the CHL ruined some Russian prospects, probably, but not to the extent claimed. For example the one of three Russian defenders getting over 20 minutes a game is Kulikov who was trained in the CHL (the others are Markov, and Emelin who has passed it on the back of heavy minutes this month). To put that in perspective there are more defenders drafted out of Minnesota high school hockey getting 20 minutes a game (McDonagh, Leddy and Gardiner) than Russian trained ones, so there stay over and develop theory is far from perfect.

 

[Atas2000]

Add centers to your list. Kuznetsov doesn't count as it took Trotz and the NHL to turn him into a center. For his final 2 years in Russia it looked as though he was going nowhere.

Brilliant NA apologetism. Yep, it was all Trotz, and it was going nowhere... Maybe you should check the facts before posting.

I'll give them Kucherov, Panarin, Kuznetsov and Tarasenko. That's 4 1st line players produced since the 04 Malkin Ovi draft. Hardly a development model on which to hang your hat. We'll see what Guzev and Zaitsev can do when/if they make the jump.

Uhhhm, who are the canadian superstars the CHL produced during that time span?

And I'm not even taling about the CHL being an establised system while the MHL/KHL system is 8 years old.

And don't you realize how the argument works? Those players (Chistov, Svitov, Zherdev) were never going to amount to anything anyway, regardless of where they played. And any player opting for the CHL is never going to fulfill his potential...and if one happens to hit his potential (Radulov) well, the argument goes, he would have hit his potential regardless of where he decided to play. That's how that nonsensical argument works. fun.

You know what's nonsensical? The strong NA belief only in NA a player can really develop properly. Oherwise why would the GM be so obsessed with bringing prospects over?

Chistov, Svitov, Zheredev... In NA there were plenty of similar players that failed. Again, top notch russian talent is produced and developed by the MHL/KHL. It's a stat by now.

 

[Atas2000]

Apparently 1 minute of CHL coaching is enough to ruin some. But he's a MHL product, but coming to NA before establishing himself as a KHL player didn't ruin him like some claim on other prospects. Has the CHL ruined some Russian prospects, probably, but not to the extent claimed. For example the one of three Russian defenders getting over 20 minutes a game is Kulikov who was trained in the CHL (the others are Markov, and Emelin who has passed it on the back of heavy minutes this month). To put that in perspective there are more defenders drafted out of Minnesota high school hockey getting 20 minutes a game (McDonagh, Leddy and Gardiner) than Russian trained ones, so there stay over and develop theory is far from perfect.

Why are you repatedlytrying to sabotage the discussion by turning to defencemen development? Yes, we know it. Rusia hasn't developed top notch defencemen recently? So what? Kulikov is a bum developed in the CHL.So what?

It's a Y.Svechnikov thread. Remember? Let's talk about right handed goalies born under a full moon development in Russia and maybe some high school develops more of them than Russia.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Brilliant NA apologetism. Yep, it was all Trotz, and it was going nowhere... Maybe you should check the facts before posting.



Uhhhm, who are the canadian superstars the CHL produced during that time span?

And I'm not even taling about the CHL being an establised system while the MHL/KHL system is 8 years old.



You know what's nonsensical? The strong NA belief only in NA a player can really develop properly. Oherwise why would the GM be so obsessed with bringing prospects over?

Chistov, Svitov, Zheredev... In NA there were plenty of similar players that failed. Again, top notch russian talent is produced and developed by the MHL/KHL. It's a stat by now.

Kane, Doughty, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, Seguin, Benn, Brodie, Rielly, Price, Crosby, Ryan, Monahan, Ekblad, Toews, etc.

It's no use in trying to argue that the CHL is a MUCH better league at producing top level talent than the KHL/MHL.

 

[93LEAFS]

Why are you repatedlytrying to sabotage the discussion by turning to defencemen development? Yes, we know it. Rusia hasn't developed top notch defencemen recently? So what? Kulikov is a bum developed in the CHL.So what?

It's a Y.Svechnikov thread. Remember? Let's talk about right handed goalies born under a full moon development in Russia and maybe some high school develops more of them than Russia.

Because its absurd to completely blame the CHL for guys failing. Svechnikov is still a quality prospect, who isn't ruined by adding grit to his game. Kucherov is fine, and Radulov is the best player in the KHL, both guys who played in the QMJHL at some point. Filatov, Chistov, and Zherdev, and your pointing to what 4 players in the last decade.

 

[93LEAFS]

Kane, Doughty, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, Seguin, Benn, Brodie, Rielly, Price, Crosby, Ryan, Monahan, Ekblad, Toews, etc.

It's no use in trying to argue that the CHL is a MUCH better league at producing top level talent than the KHL/MHL.

Not CHL.

 

[Atas2000]

Kane, Doughty, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, Seguin, Benn, Brodie, Rielly, Price, Crosby, Ryan, Monahan, Ekblad, Toews, etc.

It's no use in trying to argue that the CHL is a MUCH better league at producing top level talent than the KHL/MHL.

I hope you mean Patrick Kane But since when is he a CHL product?

Taylor Hall? Really? Because of that one 80pts season? It may be on the Oilers, but to me he is still a good 1st liner and not the overhyped superstar canadian fans picture him to be. He has to stay healthy and become consistent.

If you put Crosby on that list, then I put Malkin next to him on the russian list, so...

Mr.Intangibles Toews? This is not a leahrdrhrship contest.

Ryan, Monahan? Really? Like REALLY?

And again, we are in a Y.Svechnikov thread and talking about russian forward's development. Everybody knows russian defencemen development is crappy at the time, but I doubt it has anything to do with Svechnikov, right? If you's dread my posts, you'd see I'm talkig about forwards only. And if you bring up Price(who is again not the best goaltender out there if you drop the NA hype around him), russian goalie development is far superior to the canadian one recently. But again it has no bearing on Y.Svechnikov.

So basically Canada produced roughly the same amount of star forwards.

But that again does not negate the fact that russian top prospects forwards developed in the MHL/KHL are the ones who are also successful on NHL level, whilethe ones developed in the CHL ALL failed, including the 1st overall pick Yakupov.

The CHL might be good for Canadians. The fact remains that Russians evidently benefit from developing at home.

 

[93LEAFS]

I hope you mean Patrick Kane But since when is he a CHL product?

Taylor Hall? Really? Because of that one 80pts season? It may be on the Oilers, but to me he is still a good 1st liner and not the overhyped superstar canadian fans picture him to be. He has to stay healthy and become consistent.

If you put Crosby on that list, then I put Malkin next to him on the russian list, so...

Mr.Intangibles Toews? This is not a leahrdrhrship contest.

Ryan, Monahan? Really? Like REALLY?

And again, we are in a Y.Svechnikov thread and talking about russian forward's development. Everybody knows russian defencemen development is crappy at the time, but I doubt it has anything to do with Svechnikov, right? If you's dread my posts, you'd see I'm talkig about forwards only. And if you bring up Price(who is again not the best goaltender out there if you drop the NA hype around him), russian goalie development is far superior to the canadian one recently. But again it has no bearing on Y.Svechnikov.

So basically Canada produced roughly the same amount of star forwards.

But that again does not negate the fact that russian top prospects forwards developed in the MHL/KHL are the ones who are also successful on NHL level, whilethe ones developed in the CHL ALL failed, including the 1st overall pick Yakupov.

The CHL might be good for Canadians. The fact remains that Russians evidently benefit from developing at home.

Radulov, played two full years, best KHL player, glad to here he failed. Kucherov, pretty good player, same with Namestinkov. And Kane played in the CHL. Also, just because prior prospects have failed doesn't mean all crrent ones who do will fail, Coaches and Leagues learn how to adapt t help these kids adapt. Your really relying on two elite players in a 10 year span, its not like your development process has been great, and its way too early to write off any prospect that plays in a top Jr league.

Russian goalie development clearly isn't vastly superior, I'd take Price, Holtby, Mzarek, Crawford, Fleury John Gibson, Devan Dubnyk, etc over Bobrovsky, Varlamov, and Vasilvesky. Though the NCAA route is probably the best.

Again, Toews isn't a CHL product. He played for Schattuck St Mary's.

If your going to dismiss Hall's 2 point per game seasons, then you might as well dismiss Tarasenko and Kuznetsov.

Considering you don't realize Kane played in the CHL and that Toews didn't makes almost any of your analysis of the CHL moot. Since 2003 the CHL has produced Eric Staal, Getzlaf, Perry, Carter, M. Richards, Crosby, Giroux, Kane, Benn, Stamkos, Tavares, and Seguin. All those guys have at the very least hit the standards of Tarasenko and Kuznetsov, and guys like Johansen, Hall, McDavid, Mackinnon and Monahan are close or on the verge of doing it.

 

[Acallabeth]

Guryanov, a skill player drafted 7 picks higher than Svechnikov, has been getting yo-yo'd by the Lada Togliatti KHL team and its MHL affiliate, at times getting only 5 min. of ice time a game. Looks like playing in the Russian league is doing wonders for his development.

I just love posts like this from posters who have no idea about what's going on. In real world Guryanov played one MHL game in September, 2 during a KHL break for EHT and 4 after the KHL season ended. Yo-yo'd...

Thread to move most of the argument to: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2003705

All right, the numbers show that Svechnikov has made a lot of improvement in 2 QMJHL years!

14/15: 55 32+46=78, 70 PIM +19 | Playoffs 7 1+6=7 14 PIM -4
15/16: 50 32+47=79, 97 PIM +26 | Playoffs 4 1+5+6 2 PIM +4

At least we can be sure his offense didn't stagnate in the Q, but how are the important things? Does he backcheck better, dump the puck well, how good is he along the boards?

Russian goalie development clearly isn't vastly superior, I'd take Price, Holtby, Mzarek, Crawford, Fleury John Gibson, Devan Dubnyk, etc over Bobrovsky, Varlamov, and Vasilvesky. Though the NCAA route is probably the best.

Post the list of Russian CHL-developed goalies please.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I hope you mean Patrick Kane But since when is he a CHL product?

Taylor Hall? Really? Because of that one 80pts season? It may be on the Oilers, but to me he is still a good 1st liner and not the overhyped superstar canadian fans picture him to be. He has to stay healthy and become consistent.

If you put Crosby on that list, then I put Malkin next to him on the russian list, so...

Mr.Intangibles Toews? This is not a leahrdrhrship contest.

Ryan, Monahan? Really? Like REALLY?

And again, we are in a Y.Svechnikov thread and talking about russian forward's development. Everybody knows russian defencemen development is crappy at the time, but I doubt it has anything to do with Svechnikov, right? If you's dread my posts, you'd see I'm talkig about forwards only. And if you bring up Price(who is again not the best goaltender out there if you drop the NA hype around him), russian goalie development is far superior to the canadian one recently. But again it has no bearing on Y.Svechnikov.

So basically Canada produced roughly the same amount of star forwards.

But that again does not negate the fact that russian top prospects forwards developed in the MHL/KHL are the ones who are also successful on NHL level, whilethe ones developed in the CHL ALL failed, including the 1st overall pick Yakupov.

The CHL might be good for Canadians. The fact remains that Russians evidently benefit from developing at home.

Ok let's take a look at CHL trained first line forwards currently in the NHL then, all drafted after 2004:

Crosby- best in the world
Ryan- multiple 70+ pt seasons
Neal- 40G
Giroux- PPG
Kane- best player in the world this season
Voracheck- PPG
Couture- 60pt/30G
Stamkos- 60G
Tavares- PPG +
Duchene- 70+ pt
Hall- PPG
Seguin- PPG+
Johansen- 70+ pts
Stone - 60+ rookie season
RoR- 65+ pt two way beast
Benn- Art Ross winner
McDavid- future best in the world

HM/future Stars- RNH/Monahan/Huberdeau/MacKinnon, etc.

I'm sure I'm also forgetting some other players. Now please come up with a list that closely resembles the first line players that the KHL/MHL has produced since 2004. I'll wait.

 

[93LEAFS]

I just love posts like this from posters who have no idea about what's going on. In real world Guryanov played one MHL game in September, 2 during a KHL break for EHT and 4 after the KHL season ended. Yo-yo'd...

Thread to move most of the argument to: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2003705

All right, the numbers show that Svechnikov has made a lot of improvement in 2 QMJHL years!

14/15: 55 32+46=78, 70 PIM +19 | Playoffs 7 1+6=7 14 PIM -4
15/16: 50 32+47=79, 97 PIM +26 | Playoffs 4 1+5+6 2 PIM +4

At least we can be sure his offense didn't stagnate in the Q, but how are the important things? Does he backcheck better, dump the puck well, how good is he along the boards?


Post the list of Russian CHL-developed goalies please.

He said in general, I never implied its better for Russian goalies, and it doesn't matter anymore because they can't play in the CHL anymore.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Can a mod please do something here? This thread is trash, way to go guys.

 

[TNigs]

Can a mod please do something here? This thread is trash, way to go guys.

Let 'em go, this is good stuff if the mods move it I'll never find it again.

Offensive skill, instincts, drive/compete level, and hockey IQ are not taught in any league. Some players just see the game differently and can process what 9 other skaters are doing faster than other players.

Defensive positioning, back checking, and cycling/protecting the puck can be taught from midget and up.

I feel the KHL has adapted recently but a few years ago when they were paying everyone crazy amounts of money, every player that would come to NA would be lazy defensively and only try when their team was on offense.

 

[FissionFire]

I just love posts like this from posters who have no idea about what's going on. In real world Guryanov played one MHL game in September, 2 during a KHL break for EHT and 4 after the KHL season ended. Yo-yo'd...

Thread to move most of the argument to: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2003705

All right, the numbers show that Svechnikov has made a lot of improvement in 2 QMJHL years!

14/15: 55 32+46=78, 70 PIM +19 | Playoffs 7 1+6=7 14 PIM -4
15/16: 50 32+47=79, 97 PIM +26 | Playoffs 4 1+5+6 2 PIM +4

At least we can be sure his offense didn't stagnate in the Q, but how are the important things? Does he backcheck better, dump the puck well, how good is he along the boards.

Glad you asked. He's changed positions from wing to center and drives the offense more now. He also covers more ice defensively and has made huge strides in face offs and along the boards. He has become a better player without losing offense. I think Wings fans and management are very happy with his development so far.

 

[42]

When can we expect to see him in the NHL? The Wings have been patient in developing their youngsters but we say with Larkin that they won't shy away from promoting a player if he proves he belongs. AHL next year(is he eligible?) and then short stints in NHL in 2017/18?

 

[93LEAFS]

AHL to start next year see how he adapts, but probably little chance he sees more than 9 games unless he takes a big step forward because it saves an ELC year.

 

[wings5]

My worry with him is the apparent fading with stronger competition. He seems to light up weaker opponents but when the competition gets tough such as in the WJC he fades. He is with his club team now so getting good icetime and I've heard he hasn't been as noticeable against Saint Johns, hopefully he steps it up, because the AHL will be very difficult if he can't be a gamebreaker here.

 

[Emerz]

My worry with him is the apparent fading with stronger competition. He seems to light up weaker opponents but when the competition gets tough such as in the WJC he fades. He is with his club team now so getting good icetime and I've heard he hasn't been as noticeable against Saint Johns, hopefully he steps it up, because the AHL will be very difficult if he can't be a gamebreaker here.

It's hard to pinpoint what happens to Svech when playoff time comes around but his shooting % plummets from nearly 20% to around 5% despite still getting quality shots and scoring chances.

I mean he still has 13 points in 11 games so he is still being an impact player but you just know he is capable of more than what hes showing and should statistically have at least 2x more goals to show for it.

There's only been really one game specifically that I can recall (game 3) that he was being a liability on the ice and trying to do everything himself.

It's not even really the tight playoff checking because he is still clearly getting solid shots off and stuff, I'm fairly certain it's some kind of mental thing.

 

[wings5]

It's hard to pinpoint what happens to Svech when playoff time comes around but his shooting % plummets from nearly 20% to around 5% despite still getting quality shots and scoring chances.

I mean he still has 13 points in 11 games so he is still being an impact player but you just know he is capable of more than what hes showing and should statistically have at least 2x more goals to show for it.

There's only been really one game specifically that I can recall (game 3) that he was being a liability on the ice and trying to do everything himself.

It's not even really the tight playoff checking because he is still clearly getting solid shots off and stuff, I'm fairly certain it's some kind of mental thing.

He may have 13 pts, but when you're dishing to players like Lazarev/Dubois/Joly, its easy to put up points statistically, it's the play on the ice, watched a few feeds and he did not look like the impact player that he should be. Opposite to Barbashev in last years playoffs, who is having a tough 1st AHL season, despite his Q success.

 

[Emerz]

He may have 13 pts, but when you're dishing to players like Lazarev/Dubois/Joly, its easy to put up points statistically, it's the play on the ice, watched a few feeds and he did not look like the impact player that he should be. Opposite to Barbashev in last years playoffs, who is having a tough 1st AHL season, despite his Q success.

Oh yeah for sure I've definitely had a few posts about Svech on a different hockey site and his playoff being pretty disappointing. I'm just hoping he steps it up, cause if the Eagles get past St John than the level of competition jumps from a division winner to the potential best junior team in the CHL in Rouyn-Noranda.

 

[wings5]

1st star in tonight's game against the Leafs with 2 goals and was the best player on the ice. He looked to have gained a step and some quickness from last season and now he has more time to use his great hands. Hopefully he can have a strong season and can get some call ups.

 

[Claypool]

Highlights from preseason game against Toronto. He's #37.

 

[Flynn84]

To be honest I'm surprised, he's looking so good. Any chance he'll start the season in the NHL?
Who is higher on the depth chart now, Svech or Mantha?

 

[Claypool]

To be honest I'm surprised, he's looking so good. Any chance he'll start the season in the NHL?
Who is higher on the depth chart now, Svech or Mantha?

No chance he starts in the NHL.

Mantha is much higher on the depth chart, along with Bertuzzi and AA. Svech likely plays two seasons in Grand Rapids before pushing for a roster spot.