LW Arthur Kaliyev (2019, 33rd, LAK)

[kabidjan18]

People need to stop using the word "average" to mean "intuitively he looks somewhat competent," or "his motion is fluid enough." Hockey writers unfortunately do this too. Every player is an "above average skater", or a "good skater". You look on boards where people discuss the speed of their team, posters will say "these three skaters are below average, everyone else is average or better." That makes no sense. I get the sense that when people say someone is a "below-average" skater they're usually referring to the 15th-20th percentile, rather than the actual average.

Average means if you lined him up in a race with 50% of the league, he'd win. And if you lined him up with 50% of the league, he'd lose. 50% of the league is below-average in skating. 50% of the league is above average in skating. You hear ridiculous claims like "no top scorers in the NHL are below-average skaters." And then usually someone will say "but Mark Stone", or "but Jeff Carter", only players who have visibly choppy or notably slow footwork, missing the fact that quite a few top scorers in the NHL simply would not win in a footrace against half of all players in the NHL, which is the definition of below-average. You don't need to be above average to be competent. You don't need to be an above average skater in the NHL to be in the NHL because by definition, half of the NHL is below-average in the NHL.

So back to Strome. Who on Chicago is faster than him? I'm probably not the best person to judge, but from what I've seen certainly Kampf, Kane, Kahun, Debrincat, Toews, Saad. Probably also Fortin, Perlini, and Kruger. Let's give for the sake of argument that he's faster than Martinsen, Anisimov, Kunitz, and Hayden. So 9 forwards are faster than him, 4 are slower. Chicago is not an anomalously fast team. 10th out of 14 is below average. And I neither think Strome nor Kaliyev need to be above average skaters to be successful in the NHL, but average isn't a feeling or a constant, it's relative to other players in the league.

 

[Dominance]

I have not seen him with the hawks yet, but I have seen him this year. He still is far from an above average skater, especially for a top 6 forward.

I have, almost every game, and you are correct. Going to Chicago didn’t grant him new ability. He’s at the point where he can forecheck and backcheck acceptably and get to areas and loose pucks he should be getting to. His skating is no longer a weakness, per se, but it is by no means remotely above average at the NHL level.

 

[AmericanDream]

People need to stop using the word "average" to mean "intuitively he looks somewhat competent," or "his motion is fluid enough." Hockey writers unfortunately do this too. Every player is an "above average skater", or a "good skater". You look on boards where people discuss the speed of their team, posters will say "these three skaters are below average, everyone else is average or better." That makes no sense. I get the sense that when people say someone is a "below-average" skater they're usually referring to the 15th-20th percentile, rather than the actual average.

Average means if you lined him up in a race with 50% of the league, he'd win. And if you lined him up with 50% of the league, he'd lose. 50% of the league is below-average in skating. 50% of the league is above average in skating. You hear ridiculous claims like "no top scorers in the NHL are below-average skaters." And then usually someone will say "but Mark Stone", or "but Jeff Carter", only players who have visibly choppy or notably slow footwork, missing the fact that quite a few top scorers in the NHL simply would not win in a footrace against half of all players in the NHL, which is the definition of below-average. You don't need to be above average to be competent. You don't need to be an above average skater in the NHL to be in the NHL because by definition, half of the NHL is below-average in the NHL.

So back to Strome. Who on Chicago is faster than him? I'm probably not the best person to judge, but from what I've seen certainly Kampf, Kane, Kahun, Debrincat, Toews, Saad. Probably also Fortin, Perlini, and Kruger. Let's give for the sake of argument that he's faster than Martinsen, Anisimov, Kunitz, and Hayden. So 9 forwards are faster than him, 4 are slower. Chicago is not an anomalously fast team. 10th out of 14 is below average. And I neither think Strome nor Kaliyev need to be above average skaters to be successful in the NHL, but average isn't a feeling or a constant, it's relative to other players in the league.

Strome is a better skater than Kruger, just wanted to add that lol...

Strome doesn't have that burst out of the gate which makes him look slower, plus his stamina drains really quickly as the shift plays so his skating issues are burst and stamina...two things that can be worked on, but I agree with what you say. People just blanket statement too much on skating or shot strength, whatever...we heard all this gloom and doom about Strome's skating when we got him 2 weeks back from the Yotes..he looks ok to fine out there, he isn't going to be Saad on the ice, but he is better than Anisimov who is a 7 year NHL vet...

Kaliyev plays a different style of game, he doesn't need to rely on elite skating to make it. Most power forwards out there in the NHL have been in the same boat with him..yes, he needs to work on skating, most players do, but it will not hold him back at the NHL level.

 

[jfhabs]

How does he compare with Zadina?
I haven't seen much of him outside of highlights and stats. I must say I'm a bit puzzled he is sometimes ranked in the 15-25 range...

 

[S E P H]

Bad skater, extremely one dimensional.

I wouldn't say he is a terrible skater, I think he is smooth, but doesn't do anything particularly well in the skating category. He needs to perhaps lose some weight, increase his explosiveness, work on his edges, become more agile, and whatnot. Maybe needing to work on so much makes him a terrible skater, but it isn't like he's Draisaitl out there in his draft year. Skating is also very fixable, so he won't be dinged draft positions due to it. Being insanely one-dimensional though will and why I don't have him higher on my personal list.

Strome is a better skater than Kruger, just wanted to add that lol...

Strome doesn't have that burst out of the gate which makes him look slower, plus his stamina drains really quickly as the shift plays so his skating issues are burst and stamina...two things that can be worked on, but I agree with what you say. People just blanket statement too much on skating or shot strength, whatever...we heard all this gloom and doom about Strome's skating when we got him 2 weeks back from the Yotes..he looks ok to fine out there, he isn't going to be Saad on the ice, but he is better than Anisimov who is a 7 year NHL vet...

Kaliyev plays a different style of game, he doesn't need to rely on elite skating to make it. Most power forwards out there in the NHL have been in the same boat with him..yes, he needs to work on skating, most players do, but it will not hold him back at the NHL level.

Most powerforwards have more than six penalty minutes on the season. He isn't a powerforward, he is just a kid who has good size. FTR that doesn't mean he will bust, Mikko Rantanen isn't a guy I would describe as a powerforward either, but he has size and uses it well.

 

[AmericanDream]

I wouldn't say he is a terrible skater, I think he is smooth, but doesn't do anything particularly well in the skating category. He needs to perhaps lose some weight, increase his explosiveness, work on his edges, become more agile, and whatnot. Maybe needing to work on so much makes him a terrible skater, but it isn't like he's Draisaitl out there in his draft year. Skating is also very fixable, so he won't be dinged draft positions due to it. Being insanely one-dimensional though will and why I don't have him higher on my personal list.


Most powerforwards have more than six penalty minutes on the season. He isn't a powerforward, he is just a kid who has good size. FTR that doesn't mean he will bust, Mikko Rantanen isn't a guy I would describe as a powerforward either, but he has size and uses it well.

there are fewer and fewer true power forwards in today's game...call him what you like, but bigger sized player that goes to the net is my point...he drives to the net, he scores from around the net, his style is like a JVR who has been very successful despite not being physical and a great skater.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Feel like the Robertson comparisons are on point. Do you take him high and hope that he can work on this major weakness? Or do you let him slip and someone else takes the risk. You need skating to succeed in the NHL, but at the same time the potential pay off for the guy is huge if he can be NHL average.

 

[AmericanDream]

no US WJC camp invite unfortunately....but many of the CHL kids from the US did not get one as well...oh well, maybe we see him at the u-18 in the Spring when Hamilton is done...

 

[93LEAFS]

no US WJC camp invite unfortunately....but many of the CHL kids from the US did not get one as well...oh well, maybe we see him at the u-18 in the Spring when Hamilton is done...

Like Canada, USA doesn't bring 17-year-olds unless they are clearly elite talents outside of rare exceptions (generally guys like Zucker who provide a very specific and elite tool). Look at the list of the last 17 year olds to go for the USA in the past 10 years.

Chad Krys (Don't know how this happened, I do, but in retrospect it looks crazy)
Auston Matthews
Noah Hanifin
Zach Werenski
Jack Eichel
Jacob Trouba
Jason Zucker (good player in retrospect, but a bit out of place on this list)
Jack Campbell

It's also not just the list, but the guys left off in that time frame such as Seth Jones, Matthew Tkachuk, Clayton Keller, McAvoy, etc. If they both make it (which is likely) Jack Hughes and Knight fit in.

You see the same with Canada in that time frame.

 

[AmericanDream]

Like Canada, USA doesn't bring 17-year-olds unless they are clearly elite talents outside of rare exceptions (generally guys like Zucker who provide a very specific and elite tool). Look at the list of the last 17 year olds to go for the USA in the past 10 years.

Chad Krys (Don't know how this happened, I do, but in retrospect it looks crazy)
Auston Matthews
Noah Hanifin
Zach Werenski
Jack Eichel
Jacob Trouba
Jason Zucker (good player in retrospect, but a bit out of place on this list)
Jack Campbell

It's also not just the list, but the guys left off in that time frame such as Seth Jones, Matthew Tkachuk, Clayton Keller, McAvoy, etc. If they both make it (which is likely) Jack Hughes and Knight fit in.

You see the same with Canada in that time frame.

well aware of how US picks their squads, but this is a new management team.
USA Hockey seems to still be weird with 17 year olds which is why Zegras wasn't there either...but Kaliyev as a non USNDP had little chance..all the 17 year olds that have made it are from the USNDP..this is a reason why USA Hockey struggles some years, we make stupid roster choices based on age. All of the US Hockey fans are upset over Kaliyev not being there over any other player snubbed. VanBiesbrouk as a CHL guy, we had hope he would start changing that..oh well, team should do fine just wished the kid got a chance at camp same with Wilde.

 

[93LEAFS]

well aware of how US picks their squads, but this is a new management team.
USA Hockey seems to still be weird with 17 year olds which is why Zegras wasn't there either...but Kaliyev as a non USNDP had little chance..all the 17 year olds that have made it are from the USNDP..this is a reason why USA Hockey struggles some years, we make stupid roster choices based on age. All of the US Hockey fans are upset over Kaliyev not being there over any other player snubbed. VanBiesbrouk as a CHL guy, we had hope he would start changing that..oh well, team should do fine just wished the kid got a chance at camp same with Wilde.

I'd get it if it was a DeBrincat situation, but I don't think he's snubbed. Both Hockey Canada and USA Hockey are capable of making ridiculous decisions with no political motivation at all. I mean, just look at the Kyle Connor cut.

 

[William H Bonney]

no US WJC camp invite unfortunately....but many of the CHL kids from the US did not get one as well...oh well, maybe we see him at the u-18 in the Spring when Hamilton is done...

It will be interesting to see how USAH approaches the IIHF U18 tournament this year.

The NTDP U18 team is a perfect 18-0 in international games, which is pretty crazy but not surprising given the talent on the team. Do they mess with something that is working?

A lot of times you'll see a couple U17s get a promotion, but at this point none of the U17s are deserving of that opportunity.

While the NTDP U18 team ('01s) is loaded, there's also a ton of '01 talent outside the NTDP. If you were just putting together the most talented U18 team, guys like Bobby Brink, Arthur Kaliyev, and Dustin Wolf would all be locks. Players like John Farinacci, Robert Mastrosimone, Nick Robertson, Grant Silianoff, and Luke Toporowski would all be in strong contention as well.

Obviously if there are injured NTDP U18 players, they'll replace them and likely not with U17s, but will we see them demote players from an undefeated team to the U17s come tournament time? The bottom of the roster NTDP U18 players are fine players, which isn't always the case as some years the guys to demote are extremely obvious and not even good U17 players (i.e. DJ King). Would I prefer to have Brink, Kaliyev, and Wolf come tournament time (assuming they're eligible, as Brink and Wolf are on really good teams in their respective leagues) over Moynihan, Weight, and Rowe? Absolutely. But will USAH make that move?

 

[jls24]

Strome is a better skater than Kruger, just wanted to add that lol...

Strome doesn't have that burst out of the gate which makes him look slower, plus his stamina drains really quickly as the shift plays so his skating issues are burst and stamina...two things that can be worked on, but I agree with what you say. People just blanket statement too much on skating or shot strength, whatever...we heard all this gloom and doom about Strome's skating when we got him 2 weeks back from the Yotes..he looks ok to fine out there, he isn't going to be Saad on the ice, but he is better than Anisimov who is a 7 year NHL vet...

Kaliyev plays a different style of game, he doesn't need to rely on elite skating to make it. Most power forwards out there in the NHL have been in the same boat with him..yes, he needs to work on skating, most players do, but it will not hold him back at the NHL level.

I think what helps Strome a lot is his IQ. He's reading and processing plays faster than most and this more than makes up for the fact that he's not a burner.

 

[AmericanDream]

I'd get it if it was a DeBrincat situation, but I don't think he's snubbed. Both Hockey Canada and USA Hockey are capable of making ridiculous decisions with no political motivation at all. I mean, just look at the Kyle Connor cut.

I am not really saying he was snubbed, many are just disappointed to not see him at camp, kid is on pace for over 50 goals, we could really use a player producing right now on the wing...17 year olds have an uphill climb to get an invite, 17 year old non USNDP players near impossible it seems...

 

[UNITEDSTATESOFHOCKEY]

I am not really saying he was snubbed, many are just disappointed to not see him at camp, kid is on pace for over 50 goals, we could really use a player producing right now on the wing...17 year olds have an uphill climb to get an invite, 17 year old non USNDP players near impossible it seems...

If I had to put forth an argument as to why I wouldn't want multiple 17 year old's on the roster is if there are any key injuries your depth gets challenged very quickly and those 17 year old's possible get tossed into situations they might not be ready for and that can mean the end of your tournament rather quickly if that happens... You take some older more experienced, maybe more physically developed players and maybe you have more versatility in the lineup.... This is why I would tend to stay away from guys like boldy, Zegres, Kailiyev when there are, lack of a better term "safer" options available. The only player that didn't get an invite that I thought deserved one was Bode Wilde.... not sure about him being on the final roster but he earned the right to be in the discussion and go to the camp to try to change minds....

having said all that, I like this USA squad if they can stay healthy. I think they will have the better goaltending and defensive group in the tournament... Just a matter if they can get their Power Play popping, that's usually what wins and loses this tourney, which is why Wilde comes into play for me....

 

[AmericanDream]

just another ho-hum game for Arthur.

4 point night tonight - 1g 3a....45 points in 30 games for the 17 year old....he no good....

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

Some people in my Draft Rankings wondered why I have Kaliyev rated as my #3 rated prospect. So I feel that I should give a better explanation on why I feel so highly on Arthur Kaliyev who I believe is the one of the Top Prospects in this draft. Here's a good highlight package from the channel Hockey Prospects Center.

JUST A NOTE YES I HAVE SEEN HIM PLAY AND NOT JUST HIGHLIGHTS. THANKS



1. His shot

I do believe that he has the best shot in this draft, better than Kakko, better than Hughes, better than Cozens, etc. Anytime he takes a shot, I would be ready as a fan to jump out of my seat. I don’t know if I would say his shot is on Alexander Ovechkin, Patrik Laine, or Auston Matthews levels yet, but perhaps a Filip Forsberg, or a 2015 Max Pacioretty. So yeah, if it was draft night I would easily give his shot a 5/5.

2. His passing

Now I did just boast about his shot being A+ levels of good, but he has been improving his passing game so much this season. As a goaltender, I wouldn’t know what to do, “Is he gonna pass, is he gonna shoot? Oh look, the puck is in the net...” It’s just always fun to watch him coming down the zone, and think that he’s gonna rip one towards the goaltender, but shockingly he makes a very nice pass to one of his teammates for a great goal.

3. Physical presence

When I just looked at his stats back in his rookie season on good ole elite prospects, I just immediately assumed, he’s probably one of those undersized and under 170 pounds prospects. To my surprise he’s 6’2, 190 pounds, and brings a very solid physical part to his game as well. Just like Forsberg, and Pacioretty both are good sized and know how to throw a big hit, as well as scoring a big goal.

Those are my 3 big things I really love about his game. Now to address some of the issues that some people have about his game. His skating, and laziness. Now to me, skating is important, extremely important, that’s why Hughes and Kakko are ranked to go 1 and 2, because along with their talents with the puck on their stick, they are excellent skaters. Kaliyev I believe will improve on his skating, I am already seeing improvements during this season, and I’m sure he also knows that is the thing he’s gotta work on. Now, about the laziness, I mean some of the best snipers in the NHL are lazy on the defensive side of the game. I mean that’s why they play the wing, wingers are asked to do the least when defending in their own zone. I’m not saying it’s fine that he’s lazy, but I don’t think that should move him far down in the rankings, so I stand by putting him at #3 on my list.

To end this post I will say, I will stay true to my opinion, and I won’t change it unless Kaliyev all of a sudden doesn’t act like Kaliyev. He’s a Top Prospect, and even if when the draft comes, and if he ends up going lower, I still believe he’s going to be one of the best prospects coming out of this draft. Then again I've been wrong before, but I got a really good feeling about him. I hope this post gave ya a bit more insight on why I’m a big fan of Kaliyev.

 

[Dominance]

Honest question: have you actually seen him play, outside of highlight reels?

I am by no means an expert, nor do I claim to have seen an extensive amount of him in the OHL. But there are real red flags with this guy that other prospects don’t have. Why do you think literally (as far as I know) every actual scout rankings has him outside of the top-10 despite his outstanding production? He’s a poor skater who regularly makes plays that make you question his IQ, struggles with consistency, and is often a detriment to his team when he doesn’t have the puck. @93LEAFS has called him or quoted someone else as describing him as Owen Tippett with severely worse skating, I believe. If that’s accurate, Kaliyev is by no means a player a team picking in the top-5 should be looking at in a forward-heavy draft.

 

[izzy]

you basically just explained you havent watched him play other than his highlight packages

ok

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't think he's Tippett with worse skating. I think he's a better playmaker than Tippett, I think he has a better hockey IQ than Tippett and is a bigger all-around offensive threat than Tippett. They both have good shots and are big wingers, but I don't think they are all that similar.

There are things he needs to work on, but are these really such big things to work on that you ignore elite production and a pretty good skill-set? The skating isn't great, but its not awful. It's good enough for him to play in the NHL. He can improve his work-ethic, his compete level, his defense. That stuff isn't as hard to improve on as scoring goals or being able to provide assists.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

You've only watched him on highlight reels?

 

[Tryamkin]

I don’t mean to be that guy, but it’s almost impossible to scout off of highlight reels. You don’t see the player at their worst and making bad plays most of the time. One of the worst parts of his game is how he tends to disappear and make low IQ plays at times, which you frankly just aren’t going to see. He may not look like a bad skater in the CHL but throw him in the AHL right now and his production would fall off a cliff.

 

[rt]

I highly recommend going back and watching Andrei Kostitsyn’s NHL highlight reels. He looks like Alex Ovechkin. As an NHL player. AK47 really drives home how much the times between the highlights matter.

 

[Legend123]

I highly recommend going back and watching Andrei Kostitsyn’s NHL highlight reels. He looks like Alex Ovechkin. As an NHL player. AK47 really drives home how much the times between the highlights matter.

His nickname was AK46

 

[rt]

Typo. Thanks.