Line Predictions When Healthy

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

They had a 10 game stretch with 7 losses just prior to Chefs injury. Sure, they have won a lot over the season but there is no reason to think they couldn't have won even more with proper line usage and combinations.

They are winning now too without Chef. And that is because ELL was (forced to) changed. Little, Ehlers, Wheeler and Laine have all been better 5 on 5 than before the forced change.

It is exactly what some of us argued would happen if that stupid line was broken up. And it happened.

When we have the full lineup again, we should optimize the lineup for playoffs. Find out best working combinations that get the most out of the team. CSW and ELL are not the answer, we have to know that much by now. There is plenty of data to back it up.

When losing a player of Chef's calibre improves your lineup chemistry And production, because it forces the coach to make changes that were obvious even before, it doesn't really look good on the coach. Continuing on that idiotic path will look even worse. The major thing standing between the Jets and Stanley Cup finals is Maurices lack of abstract thought in coaching.

The Jets forwards lines post Scheif are playing as well as they are due to us having had the luxury of a top 6 player previously playing a bottom line role. Perreault is arguably-widely considered the teams best LW.

Perreault was bumped up from LW4 to LW2. Matthias was inserted into his place & Jets haven't missed a beat.

I allege your definition of "proper" line usage is your own definition.

PoMo certainly earned a reputation of questionable moves in past seasons but as I've stated in numerous posts on the subject, those moves were done for developmental purposes.

This season is different & I've agreed with nearly every move he's made.

 

[Psych0dad]

The Jets forwards lines post Scheif are playing as well as they are due to us having had the luxury of a top 6 player previously playing a bottom line role. Perreault is arguably-widely considered the teams best LW.

Perreault was bumped up from LW4 to LW2. Matthias was inserted into his place & Jets haven't missed a beat.

I allege your definition of "proper" line usage is your own definition.

PoMo certainly earned a reputation of questionable moves in past seasons but as I've stated in numerous posts on the subject, those moves were done for developmental purposes.

This season is different & I've agreed with nearly every move he's made.

I am one of those people who think Perreault is the best LW in the current situation.

But Perreault is not better than Chef. Yet the two lines now work better than they did with Chef in the lineup.

The change for better is not because Perreault > Scheifele. It's because the combinations got switched and we finally got rid of a combination (ELL) that never worked well but was forced on us for 40 games.

The change comes from releasing these players into situations they can help the team more. Little was never a bad 5 on 5 player, Laine and Ehlers aren't either, but together they sucked the life out of eachother like a bad marriage.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I am one of those people who think Perreault is the best LW in the current situation.

But Perreault is not better than Chef. Yet the two lines now work better than they did with Chef in the lineup.

The change for better is not because Perreault > Scheifele. It's because the combinations got switched and we finally got rid of a combination (ELL) that never worked well but was forced on us for 40 games.

The change comes from releasing these players into situations they can help the team more. Little was never a bad 5 on 5 player, Laine and Ehlers aren't either, but together they sucked the life out of eachother like a bad marriage.

I hate making the overused "strawman" statement...it's use is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

That said I never stated Perreualt>Scheifele. The point being made was Chef's loss hasn't hit the team hard as we had a top 3 forward playing in the bottom 3.

Scheifele's loss/Perreault promotion was likely only going to affect depth scoring. Even that didn't happen. Matthias & then Dano both scored on their first shifts in 20+ games.

 

[Jets 31]

I'm really liking the looks of Little , Ehlers and Frenchie as the 2nd line . So when Scheif is back you have Laine and Wheeler as the 1st with him . Lowry with Connor and Armia for the 3rd and Roslovic , Hendricks , Dano as the 4th .

 

[ps241]

Realistically we probably won’t be 100% healthy that often this season. By the time Scheif gets back someone else could be out.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I'm really liking the looks of Little , Ehlers and Frenchie as the 2nd line . So when Scheif is back you have Laine and Wheeler as the 1st with him . Lowry with Connor and Armia for the 3rd and Roslovic , Hendricks , Dano as the 4th .

Who are we trading under your scenario? Copp, Matthias or Tanev?

 

[Jets 31]

Who are we trading under your scenario? Copp, Matthias or Tanev?

Matthias , but like ps241 just said , by the time we are healthy someone else might be hurt .

 

[Kaako Kappo]

People really think that Laine will not play with Little once Scheif returns?

 

[kelsier]

I would love to see Scheifele, Wheelers and Little in the middle with the team running three scoring lines and Laine paired up with Scheifele again, but that's just wishful thinking. The team goes back to the good old CSW & ELL cause well, Maurice happens.

 

[PhilJets]

Connor Little Wheeler
Ehlers Schiefele Laine
Copp Lowry Tanev // Perrault Hendrick Armia

Morrissey Trouba
Enstrom Buff
Kulikov Myers

Hellybuyck
Mason

 

[grieves]

It would be crazy to go back to CSW and ELL. The team has never looked better than it is right now, and the record is 6-0-1 after the change.

We are ultrawinning at the moment.

 

[TannedBum]

Connor Little Wheeler
Ehlers Schiefele Laine
Copp Lowry Tanev // Perrault Hendrick Armia

Back to ~10min Perreault&Armia and ~15min Tanev ?

Sounds very Mo though.

 

[KingBogo]

After reading through the last few pages of this thread I'm convinced people pay no attention to who our competition is. We are 5-0-1 since Scheifele went down and the lines got juggled. 5 of the 6 teams were below the playoff line, 2 of the games were against the dumpster fire from Buffalo, 3 games were at home and every game we were well rested. I don't how people see this as equivalent as a a tough stretch with a B2B that includes teams like St. Louis, Nashville and Boston on the road. We have been winning, but for the most part I don't think we have played exceptionally well and for the most part have been sloppy defensively. Laine and Connor were even parked on the bench while we were trying to hold onto a game.

We were fortunate that Scheif got hurt before one of our easiest stretches but as the schedule turns against us things will get tougher and we won't be able to just out gun bottom feeders in 7-4 track meets that cover up our lapses defensively. If Laine comes off Little's line when everyone is healthy it will be when he shows more chops in his own zone. Any cup run goes through the likes of Nashville, St. Louis and the Kings in tough drawn out series not by feasting on the belly up Oilers and Sabres in track meets.

 

[Halberdier]

One thing we know for sure is that the CWL experiment will end as soon as possible. It does not seem like Maurice has any confidence whatsoever in those three; the matchups they are getting are ridiculously easy in relation to how talented they are, and they are still getting shredded out there in the defensive end. At home, Maurice is doing his best trying to shelter them (matchup charts behind the spoiler tag), which, in my opinion, has been one of the main reasons for Lowry's line logging massive minutes as of late; they can be trusted at both ends of the ice against tough opposition, whereas Wheeler's line has only had success in the offensive zone. That is not what you want from your so-called "top line".

Spoiler

As for how Maurice will fix this issue after Scheifele comes back, I don't know, and I don't really care either, as long as the points are flooding in. Lowry's line should be a lock to stay intact, though.

What I found funny was that your arguments and 2 out of your first 4 stat examples did contradict.f Ifou look at those 2 first _road_ games, the 1st line had been against other teams 1st line and also easily _won_ the Corsi battle. And as you know, raw Corsi is everything.

Your third example shows that for some reason Maurice played the 1st line against opponents 4th at home. So unlike the first two that were against your argument, that third one supported your argument.

I'd say that with that sample size you have to take into account that there are also bad games, and one of those latter games definitely was for CWL.

Way too early to tell. At least they have been offensively better than CSW was after their rather long and hot period.


Though I'm also sure Maurice will break CWL as soon as possible. I am afraid he goes back to CSW & ELL as soon as possible. After all he is Maurice and does coaching only if injuries force him to (Connor is a prime example of that).

 

[KingBogo]

Interesting how everyone portrays our won loss record pre and post Scheifele to fit their argument. Even discounting which games he played in and turning OTL's into full loses one way and keeping it as a OTL on the other side of the injury even in the same post. By league rules on official outcome of games and if a game counts as a game played by a player. Officially the 10 games prior to Scheifele's injury the Jets were 4-4-2 and the 6 games since Scheifele's injury the Jets are 5-0-1. Now we can all keep official score as annoying as it is.

 

[Halberdier]

Interesting how everyone portrays our won loss record pre and post Scheifele to fit their argument. Even discounting which games he played in and turning OTL's into full loses one way and keeping it as a OTL on the other side of the injury even in the same post. By league rules on official outcome of games and if a game counts as a game played by a player. Officially the 10 games prior to Scheifele's injury the Jets were 4-4-2 and the 6 games since Scheifele's injury the Jets are 5-0-1. Now we can all keep official score as annoying as it is.

Who is that everyone? Does he have a nick here?

Scheifele was on extended slump almost some 15 games before his injury. He was not bad, but he was not at his best consistently during that period. I think that is one reason why missing Scheifele did not hurt us as bad as it could have.

 

[ulf]

very impressed with Copp's play. I think he shows more Offence then Lowry and should be the Schiefele replacement once Lowry gets back.

Connor Copp Wheeler (more of a 200 ft game)
MP Little Ehlers (Smart and energetic)
Laine Lowry Armia (2 of our best Df's protecting Laine)
Mattias/Hendricks/Roslo/Tanev/Dafno. And Schiefele when!!

 

[PhilJets]

Back to ~10min Perreault&Armia and ~15min Tanev ?

Sounds very Mo though.

Im Mo

So what do you suggest?

 

[grieves]

After reading through the last few pages of this thread I'm convinced people pay no attention to who our competition is. We are 5-0-1 since Scheifele went down and the lines got juggled. 5 of the 6 teams were below the playoff line, 2 of the games were against the dumpster fire from Buffalo, 3 games were at home and every game we were well rested. I don't how people see this as equivalent as a a tough stretch with a B2B that includes teams like St. Louis, Nashville and Boston on the road. We have been winning, but for the most part I don't think we have played exceptionally well and for the most part have been sloppy defensively. Laine and Connor were even parked on the bench while we were trying to hold onto a game.

We were fortunate that Scheif got hurt before one of our easiest stretches but as the schedule turns against us things will get tougher and we won't be able to just out gun bottom feeders in 7-4 track meets that cover up our lapses defensively. If Laine comes off Little's line when everyone is healthy it will be when he shows more chops in his own zone. Any cup run goes through the likes of Nashville, St. Louis and the Kings in tough drawn out series not by feasting on the belly up Oilers and Sabres in track meets.

So the "we are winning" argument is really stupid and ridiculous in your opinion? I agree.

I don't agree that we haven't looked strong. There are games like the Sharks where the youngsters were being manhandled, but I thought Maurice did excellent coaching shortening the bench with those two while protecting the lead.

I would try to dispel the notion that we need to play some kind of pure defensive game. We just need our lines to outscore the opponent. Allow some, but just score more. That is the gist of the current first line because they are not defensive masterminds. CSW was able to score 4 goals in a month. CWL has outdone them already for sure in that regard. And let's not pretend CSW weren't hemmed in their own zone too.

I think this team is looking stronger than ever, but you are right that we need to see more with different kinds of opponents.

 

[Trilliann]

After reading through the last few pages of this thread I'm convinced people pay no attention to who our competition is. We are 5-0-1 since Scheifele went down and the lines got juggled. 5 of the 6 teams were below the playoff line, 2 of the games were against the dumpster fire from Buffalo, 3 games were at home and every game we were well rested. I don't how people see this as equivalent as a a tough stretch with a B2B that includes teams like St. Louis, Nashville and Boston on the road. We have been winning, but for the most part I don't think we have played exceptionally well and for the most part have been sloppy defensively. Laine and Connor were even parked on the bench while we were trying to hold onto a game.

We were fortunate that Scheif got hurt before one of our easiest stretches but as the schedule turns against us things will get tougher and we won't be able to just out gun bottom feeders in 7-4 track meets that cover up our lapses defensively. If Laine comes off Little's line when everyone is healthy it will be when he shows more chops in his own zone. Any cup run goes through the likes of Nashville, St. Louis and the Kings in tough drawn out series not by feasting on the belly up Oilers and Sabres in track meets.

And Detroit and Florida..

 

[Channelcat]

very impressed with Copp's play. I think he shows more Offence then Lowry and should be the Schiefele replacement once Lowry gets back.

Connor Copp Wheeler (more of a 200 ft game)
MP Little Ehlers (Smart and energetic)
Laine Lowry Armia (2 of our best Df's protecting Laine)
Mattias/Hendricks/Roslo/Tanev/Dafno. And Schiefele when!!

Copp might be the most underappreciated player on this team. I LOVE his game! Its a conservative game with a heavy defensive emphasis, but like you say he does have a good mind for the offense too. Just such a smart, disciplined and coachable guy who gets D zone starts and still puts up very good stats. Doesn't get the points, but he ensures that other guys do.

 

[TannedBum]

So what do you suggest?

Doesn't really matter, and like someone said earlier, it's very unlikely to have 100% healthy roster.

 

[CaptainChef]

I'm really liking the looks of Little , Ehlers and Frenchie as the 2nd line . So when Scheif is back you have Laine and Wheeler as the 1st with him . Lowry with Connor and Armia for the 3rd and Roslovic , Hendricks , Dano as the 4th .

Yep, I go for that as well, but Copp needs a spot in there so can't see Roslo staying up. Also not sure who deserves the demotion to the third line right now (Connor or Laine), but like someone said I think Connor is ready to go on a tear here second half so I'd leave him up there. I do agree with Psycho as well, that getting that second line changed/rolling was key to turning this around. Now that we've got those bodies in better spots, I wouldn't mess with that.

 

[grieves]

Yep, I go for that as well, but Copp needs a spot in there so can't see Roslo staying up. Also not sure who deserves the demotion to the third line right now (Connor or Laine), but like someone said I think Connor is ready to go on a tear here second half so I'd leave him up there. I do agree with Psycho as well, that getting that second line changed/rolling was key to turning this around. Now that we've got those bodies in better spots, I wouldn't mess with that.

Why do you think either one needs a demotion? I don't get it. They have exactly the same kind of defensive lapses depending on the matchup that the CSW line had, but in this case they are actually scoring in the other end as well.

Don't you at least want to see a bit more of that line?

 

[Weezeric]

Here's the pairs I want to see together and fit the other pieces around:

Connor-wheeler (wheeler at C or RW depending on the third)

Perreault-little

Scheifele-Laine