Confirmed with Link: Leddy + Witkowski for Sundqvist + Walman + 2nd 2023

[mk80]

Time to call up Witkowski so he can whoop on Deslauriers punk ass in game 3

Army meant for Witkowski to be the centerpiece of the trade anyway

 

[Majorityof1]

Even if you're not a fan of Leddy, there is no justification to say that Mikkola or Rosen are better options. Both of them were atrocious last night.

You clearly have not watched mikkola and rosen in these playoff games

Mikkola was fine, especially compared to everyone else. He has not on the ice for a goal against. His advanced stats are all near 50% for the series despite heavy defensive usage. Rosen wasn't good in game 2 and was out for 2 GA, but his underlying stats are better than Leddy's from game 1 (granted he was more sheltered). The difference being Husso came to play in game 1 and bailed people out. Not so much in game 2. Even if Leddy is better, Sunny is better than Torppchenko. We gave up multiple PK goals where our forwards were weak cleaning up the puck. Sunny probably would have fared better. I still take Sunny+Mikkola/Rosen over Leddy+Torpo/Brown.

Now with the injuries, if Leddy comes back and nobody else does, that changes the equation. I probably prefer Leddy over Santini. But if we stay at that point for too long, Leddy won't matter. I take the 2nd round pick because we aren't getting out of round 1 with our D core that diminished anyway.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Reading thread is like getting a telegram from an alternate reality. None of Santini, Mikkola or Rosen would be playing with a healthy roster, nor should they. Nine of them are as good as the injured players they are subbing on for. Watching the games, that is as plain as day.

 

[Blueston]

Mikkola was fine, especially compared to everyone else. He has not on the ice for a goal against. His advanced stats are all near 50% for the series despite heavy defensive usage. Rosen wasn't good in game 2 and was out for 2 GA, but his underlying stats are better than Leddy's from game 1 (granted he was more sheltered). The difference being Husso came to play in game 1 and bailed people out. Not so much in game 2. Even if Leddy is better, Sunny is better than Torppchenko. We gave up multiple PK goals where our forwards were weak cleaning up the puck. Sunny probably would have fared better. I still take Sunny+Mikkola/Rosen over Leddy+Torpo/Brown.

Now with the injuries, if Leddy comes back and nobody else does, that changes the equation. I probably prefer Leddy over Santini. But if we stay at that point for too long, Leddy won't matter. I take the 2nd round pick because we aren't getting out of round 1 with our D core that diminished anyway.

Did you watch the game? Miko was literally on the ice, face down by his own choice, when wild scored 2 on him goal.

 

[Oberyn]

Mikkola was fine, especially compared to everyone else. He has not on the ice for a goal against. His advanced stats are all near 50% for the series despite heavy defensive usage. Rosen wasn't good in game 2 and was out for 2 GA, but his underlying stats are better than Leddy's from game 1 (granted he was more sheltered). The difference being Husso came to play in game 1 and bailed people out. Not so much in game 2. Even if Leddy is better, Sunny is better than Torppchenko. We gave up multiple PK goals where our forwards were weak cleaning up the puck. Sunny probably would have fared better. I still take Sunny+Mikkola/Rosen over Leddy+Torpo/Brown.

Now with the injuries, if Leddy comes back and nobody else does, that changes the equation. I probably prefer Leddy over Santini. But if we stay at that point for too long, Leddy won't matter. I take the 2nd round pick because we aren't getting out of round 1 with our D core that diminished anyway.

Mikkola was most definitely on the ice when the Wild scored the 5th goal as I distinctly remember him being sprawled out on the ice as he tried to play the 2-on-1.

I'll confess I am not an advanced stats guru by any metric, but surely there is a point where you need to consider the eye test when it comes to judging players. Mikkola was not good in game 2. If the advanced stats say he had a good game, then hooray for him, but from my perspective watching the full game I thought he was probably the worst Blues defenseman that night.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Mikkola was most definitely on the ice when the Wild scored the 5th goal as I distinctly remember him being sprawled out on the ice as he tried to play the 2-on-1.

I'll confess I am not an advanced stats guru by any metric, but surely there is a point where you need to consider the eye test when it comes to judging players. Mikkola was not good in game 2. If the advanced stats say he had a good game, then hooray for him, but from my perspective watching the full game I thought he was probably the worst Blues defenseman that night.

Yeah, naturalhattrick.com had him on the ice for 0 goals against, but like you said he was on there for the 5th goal, and he played it horribly. He didn't take the pass or the shot away.

 

[Majorityof1]

Did you watch the game? Miko was literally on the ice, face down by his own choice, when wild scored 2 on him goal.

My bad. I did watch, but maybe wasn't watching as closely on that goal with how bad we were playing. I forgot that it was Mikkola on that play. I didn't think he was that bad and went to check the stats to confirm before posting. Natural stat trick had him with 0 GA (and still does), and I just accepted it. Weird. I use that site a lot for stats. I wonder how often it is wrong.

Anyway, he did misplay that and failed to stop the pass, his primary job in that situation. It was a 2-on-1 though. Going down is often the right move for a D, but you need to block the passing lane, which he didn't. Hardly completely his fault there though as the forwards, nor Parayko got back. Even given that mistake there, I still think he did a better job this playoffs than Leddy has. Husso bailed Leddy out of several plays in game 1.

 

[Majorityof1]

Mikkola was most definitely on the ice when the Wild scored the 5th goal as I distinctly remember him being sprawled out on the ice as he tried to play the 2-on-1.

I'll confess I am not an advanced stats guru by any metric, but surely there is a point where you need to consider the eye test when it comes to judging players. Mikkola was not good in game 2. If the advanced stats say he had a good game, then hooray for him, but from my perspective watching the full game I thought he was probably the worst Blues defenseman that night.

I use advanced stats in discussion because they take bias out of the equation. The eye-test is biased. If you think Mikkola is bad, you will remember his mistake as you all pointed out and forget all his good plays. If you like Leddy, you'll forget the bad plays where husso made a save, or forgive him by placing blame elsewhere. Stats aren't perfect but they tell a story free of bias for or against a player. So anytime I make an argument where I am biased as I am against Leddy, I like to look at the stats to make sure I am not projecting.

The eye-test is not absent from my analysis. I just don't think it is productive to argue: A "he looked good to me", B "he looked bad to me". Instead, "he looked good to me, despite being used in a heavily defensive role, scoring chances were fairly even when he was on the ice" is a more nuanced discussion.

 

[Blueston]

My bad. I did watch, but maybe wasn't watching as closely on that goal with how bad we were playing. I forgot that it was Mikkola on that play. I didn't think he was that bad and went to check the stats to confirm before posting. Natural stat trick had him with 0 GA (and still does), and I just accepted it. Weird. I use that site a lot for stats. I wonder how often it is wrong.

Anyway, he did misplay that and failed to stop the pass, his primary job in that situation. It was a 2-on-1 though. Going down is often the right move for a D, but you need to block the passing lane, which he didn't. Hardly completely his fault there though as the forwards, nor Parayko got back. Even given that mistake there, I still think he did a better job this playoffs than Leddy has. Husso bailed Leddy out of several plays in game 1.

There was lots of fail on that play, not just Miko. And I think he otherwise was solid. It’s not his fault we have multiple injuries and he’s being asked to do more than he is capable.

 

[Brian39]

I love Natural Stat Trick, but their data on that goal is way off (which could just mean that the data they scraped from the NHL was way off). Besides not having Mikkola on the ice, they didn't classify it as a high danger chance despite the shot clearly coming from the "medium danger" area within 4 seconds of a zone entry.

 

[Brian39]

I use advanced stats in discussion because they take bias out of the equation. The eye-test is biased. If you think Mikkola is bad, you will remember his mistake as you all pointed out and forget all his good plays. If you like Leddy, you'll forget the bad plays where husso made a save, or forgive him by placing blame elsewhere. Stats aren't perfect but they tell a story free of bias for or against a player. So anytime I make an argument where I am biased as I am against Leddy, I like to look at the stats to make sure I am not projecting.

The eye-test is not absent from my analysis. I just don't think it is productive to argue: A "he looked good to me", B "he looked bad to me". Instead, "he looked good to me, despite being used in a heavily defensive role, scoring chances were fairly even when he was on the ice" is a more nuanced discussion.

I get what you are saying, but the advanced stats also had Mikkola looking like crap in game 1. My eye test has zero support of the notion that Mikkola was dramatically better in game 2 than he was in game 1.

I think trying to compare individual performances between these 2 games with advanced stats is pretty futile. Score effects are very, very real and these games were polar opposite. Minnesota was chasing in most of game 1 and we were able to play conservative at 5 on 5 to protect a lead. We were chasing all of game 2 and Minnesota was able to play conservative to protect a lead. Minnesota noticeably scaled back their attack with a 4-0 lead, which is going to have a major impact on advanced stats.

I also think it is incredibly difficult to compare individual stats for a guy playing 22:22 minutes in game 1 vs a guy playing 15:46 in game 2 (when the team was short a D man for 40+ minutes). The coach has those players doing such different jobs that it is extremely hard to just compare the raw numbers.

I don't think that Mikkola was a dumpster fire in either game, but he certainly didn't do anything to suggest that he's be totally fine if he was playing 22 minutes a night.

 

[Ranksu]

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I was pretty loudly against the trade, but Leddy has been a solid addition. I think from the eye test I think he hasn’t been an outright liability defensively, which I think it’s all you can really ask of him.

To me, his biggest area of contribution is his ability to move the puck and help transition us out of the zone. I’d argue he’s the third best defenseman on the roster at that aspect of the game behind Faulk and Krug. We could certainly use that against Minnesota. They’re pretty ferocious on the forecheck. You can alleviate a lot of defensive pressure by denying them the ability to chip it in and gain possession down low. He’s absolutely capable of doing that.

On the whole I’d say he’s been a positive addition to the group. Certainly we’re better off with him in the lineup over Rosen, Mikkola, or Santini. I like the way Mikkola defends, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen an NHL defenseman so inept at moving the puck. He looks like he’s handling a hand grenade out there.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Regardless what folks think and feel, I want Nick back. I like his game and how he plays it.

I was pretty loudly against the trade, but Leddy has been a solid addition. I think from the eye test I think he hasn’t been an outright liability defensively, which I think it’s all you can really ask of him.

To me, his biggest area of contribution is his ability to move the puck and help transition us out of the zone. I’d argue he’s the third best defenseman on the roster at that aspect of the game behind Faulk and Krug. We could certainly use that against Minnesota. They’re pretty ferocious on the forecheck. You can alleviate a lot of defensive pressure by denying them the ability to chip it in and gain possession down low. He’s absolutely capable of doing that.

On the whole I’d say he’s been a positive addition to the group. Certainly we’re better off with him in the lineup over Rosen, Mikkola, or Santini. I like the way Mikkola defends, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen an NHL defenseman so inept at moving the puck. He looks like he’s handling a hand grenade out there.

Agree

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Regardless what folks think and feel, I want Nick back. I like his game and how he plays it.


Agree

Resigning Leddy would be great if we can still acquire another LHD or keep Scandella and acquire another RHD like Mayfield.

 

[BlueDream]

Resigning Leddy would be great if we can still acquire another LHD or keep Scandella and acquire another RHD like Mayfield.

I’d like that. But I’d look to dump Scandella regardless because I truly believe Mikkola can be a full-time starter on the bottom pair, if we can find a partner for him that can move the puck. I love what Bortuzzo does for the team but he probably needs to become the #7 sometime in the next year.

Looking at some stats, Mikkola has actually stepped up in a big way and is playing good hockey for us. He has positive possession stats despite only getting 7% of his starts in the offensive zone. He is playing strictly defensive minutes essentially, but his FF is 52%, he is the only Blues defenseman this series with a higher xGF than XGA, and he has the best percentage among all our d-men in on-ice SCF vs. SCA.

He makes some awful passes and turnovers - won’t deny that. It’s something he needs to continue to work on but he’s played a hard, physical game for us and has a lot of good traits. I hope we stay patient with him and continue to coach him because he has the ability to be a solid player. Doesn’t need to be a top pairing guy but a reliable #5 d-man would be great. Rosen has also provided some good things; I still trust both more than Perunovich at this point in time.

 

[joe galiba]

I see Peru playing a lot next year, LD with Bortuzzo or RD with Mikkola if Krug is healthy
Krug/Faulk - this might be Perunovich until mid Jan to mid Feb if Krug has a torn ACL
?/Parayko
? = Scandella, a mixture of Rosen/Mikkola/Perunovich or maybe Scandella traded and Leddy resigned

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I see Peru playing a lot next year, LD with Bortuzzo or RD with Mikkola if Krug is healthy
Krug/Faulk - this might be Perunovich until mid Jan to mid Feb if Krug has a torn ACL
?/Parayko
? = Scandella, a mixture of Rosen/Mikkola/Perunovich or maybe Scandella traded and Leddy resigned

Don’t wanna get too sidetracked, but if one of Krug’s knee ligaments was torn, then we would know by now.

Maybe there’s swelling that needs to reduce before imaging his knee.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Don’t wanna get too sidetracked, but if one of Krug’s knee ligaments was torn, then we would know by now.

Maybe there’s swelling that needs to reduce before imaging his knee.

If there is, we won’t see him again until the Finals at best.

 

[Blueston]

Don’t wanna get too sidetracked, but if one of Krug’s knee ligaments was torn, then we would know by now.

Maybe there’s swelling that needs to reduce before imaging his knee.

It’s the playoffs. Just bc club knows doesn’t mean we would know. Likely won’t know until after season ends.

 

[execwrite1]

Blues record with Nick Leddy - 18-5-2

'Nuff said.

 

[Brian39]

I wanted to see Leddy against the Avs before I fully ate crow about hating this trade. My dislike of the trade was rooted in my opinion that was a waste of assets to get a rental that makes you better but doesn't get you competitive with the Avs. I felt that Leddy's presence didn't move the needle in our ability to compete with Colorado. I've seen enough to conclude that I was way off.

We would undoubtedly be eliminated already without him. There is no way we could have pushed this series to 6 (and probably not even to 5) if the left D was Rosen/Mikkola/Perunovich. Scandella draws back into the lineup for game 5 and Leddy still plays 22:48. He snags 3 assists and finishes +1 in a must win game. 4 assists and a +4 in the series against Colorado.

He has very quickly become our #3 D man and is excelling in the role. Credit where credit is due to Army and the pro scouting staff. They identified a player who fit our system in a position of need and then acquired him without giving up massive assets in a seller's market. Lindholm returned a 1st and two 2nds. Chiarot returned a 1st. Giordano returned two 2nds and a 3rd. The guys with term (Chykrun/Provorov/Sanheim/Garvikov) all stayed put because their teams were asking for a ton. Getting the contributions Leddy has made for a 2nd and Sunny was excellent work when other teams were heaving around 1sts.

We still have a hole to climb in this series, but the fact that we are still alive given the injuries we've faced is a glowing endorsement of Army's vision. Even if we fall short, this trade was worth it if only for the extra playoff revenue and the information gained about the state of our organization.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And I don't know when things changed, but our pro scouting has really been on point lately. Maybe it's just the opportunities are now more available to us where they weren't in the past or maybe our scouting has genuinely improved. We've really nailed a lot of our pro acquisitions lately.

And if I'm honest as someone that was more optimistic about Leddy, I totally understood people thinking this was a Leopold 2.0 type move. He's even exceeded my expectations.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

I wanted to see Leddy against the Avs before I fully ate crow about hating this trade. My dislike of the trade was rooted in my opinion that was a waste of assets to get a rental that makes you better but doesn't get you competitive with the Avs. I felt that Leddy's presence didn't move the needle in our ability to compete with Colorado. I've seen enough to conclude that I was way off.

We would undoubtedly be eliminated already without him. There is no way we could have pushed this series to 6 (and probably not even to 5) if the left D was Rosen/Mikkola/Perunovich. Scandella draws back into the lineup for game 5 and Leddy still plays 22:48. He snags 3 assists and finishes +1 in a must win game. 4 assists and a +4 in the series against Colorado.

He has very quickly become our #3 D man and is excelling in the role. Credit where credit is due to Army and the pro scouting staff. They identified a player who fit our system in a position of need and then acquired him without giving up massive assets in a seller's market. Lindholm returned a 1st and two 2nds. Chiarot returned a 1st. Giordano returned two 2nds and a 3rd. The guys with term (Chykrun/Provorov/Sanheim/Garvikov) all stayed put because their teams were asking for a ton. Getting the contributions Leddy has made for a 2nd and Sunny was excellent work when other teams were heaving around 1sts.

We still have a hole to climb in this series, but the fact that we are still alive given the injuries we've faced is a glowing endorsement of Army's vision. Even if we fall short, this trade was worth it if only for the extra playoff revenue and the information gained about the state of our organization.

Very well said. Leddy was huge for Detroit this year and only played poorly when he was overworked/fatigued. Getting somewhat sheltered and having that playoff adrenaline rush has definitely helped him elevate his game. He and Kulak were the best 2 DMen moved at the deadline and were also the cheapest XD.

 

[stl76]

Leddy has been fantastic but I’m still sad we gave up Sunny.