Confirmed with Link: Leafs extend Keefe

[LeafEgo]

In Toronto… not really. When Dave Keon is in the conversation for best player of all time… you haven’t had very many great players.

The franchise is over 100 years old and has never had a Norris Trophy. They just recently received their first legitimate Hart Trophy (Pratt won when half the league was in WWII, and Kennedy was a career achievement award). They haven’t won a legitimate Vezina Trophy (it used to be for lowest GAA, rather than voted). Who was their last scoring leader, Charlie Conacher in the 1930s?

Its pretty wild with our storied history and 13 cups we've only seen five 100 point seasons from a player, and only three players in total - one of them being Matty.

 

[Dreakmur]

Its pretty wild with our storied history and 13 cups we've only seen five 100 point seasons from a player, and only three players in total - one of them being Matty.

100 points doesn’t always mean the same thing.

Gilmour’s 127 point season was good for 8th in the league, and 21 players scored 100+ points that season.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

100 points doesn’t always mean the same thing.

Gilmour’s 127 point season was good for 8th in the league, and 21 players scored 100+ points that season.

True. But in '94 his 111 points was good for fourth in the league, and only 8 players hit the 100 point plateau that year.

 

[LeafEgo]

100 points doesn’t always mean the same thing.

Gilmour’s 127 point season was good for 8th in the league, and 21 players scored 100+ points that season.

Yeah and they were all on other teams is what I'm saying. I guess they didn't have 100 point players with shorter seasons through our cup winning years though.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Correct.

All 6 were prior to the award being voted on. Prior to 1982, the Vezina was awarded to the starting goalie of the team with the lowest GAA.

It was a team award handed to the starting goalie. For a time, it was handed to both goalies, oddly enough, thanks to the leafs. In 1965, Sawchuk won the award despite having the 4th best save percentage and 5th best GAA. The Leafs has the best GAA… because Johnny Bower led the league in both save percentage and GAA. Since Sawchuk played 36 games and Bower played 34, Sawchuk was considered the starting goalie and took the award. Sawchuk demanded that he share the award with Bower, and it became a shared award until it became a legitimate voted award in 1982.


There were times when the Leaf goalie may have won the Vezina had it been voted. Turk Broda in 1941 and 1948. Harry Lumley in 1954 and 1955. Johnny Bower in 1961.

That is very strange logic to use to falsely minimize past teams.

 

[Dreakmur]

That is very strange logic to use to falsely minimize past teams.

It’s not minimizing the team, it’s appropriately assigning credit.

 

[Dreakmur]

Yeah and they were all on other teams is what I'm saying. I guess they didn't have 100 point players with shorter seasons through our cup winning years though.

It’s not just point totals. How many leafs have been top 5 in points league wide?

 

[notDatsyuk]

It’s not minimizing the team, it’s appropriately assigning credit.

You don't think winning the Vezina has merit because it is based on actual numbers rather than being voted for?

I guess Matthews didn't deserve the Richard because it was awarded based on goals rather than votes?

 

[Dreakmur]

You don't think winning the Vezina has merit because it is based on actual numbers rather than being voted for?

I guess Matthews didn't deserve the Richard because it was awarded based on goals rather than votes?

Goals against is a team stat.

 

[Stephen]

Sheldon has the best winning percentage among Leafs coaches who have coached more than 10 games in a season. That’s still really impressive. Not really “opinion”

Keefe’s regular season coaching record is impressive in the way that Chris Osgood’s win totals were impressive for Detroit. He does some things well, has his flaws but you know the record is skewed because of a very talented roster that thrives in regular season play. It’s not like he’s Scotty Bowman every night.

 

[Stephen]

You don't think winning the Vezina has merit because it is based on actual numbers rather than being voted for?

I guess Matthews didn't deserve the Richard because it was awarded based on goals rather than votes?

The Vezina isn’t based on stats, BTW. That’s the Jennings. Which is kind of the companion trophy and no one cares about it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Goals against is a team stat.

Not exclusively, and scoring isn't exclusively an individual stat.

The Vezina isn’t based on stats, BTW. That’s the Jennings. Which is kind of the companion trophy and no one cares about it.

I should have said 'had' rather than 'has'. We were talking about the six times Leafs goalies won it, which was long before the Jennings.

 

[Dreakmur]

The Vezina isn’t based on stats, BTW. That’s the Jennings. Which is kind of the companion trophy and no one cares about it.

The Vezina was awarded like the Jennings until 1982.

 

[Stephen]

The Vezina was awarded like the Jennings until 1982.

My mistake I didn’t know I was stepping into a historical debate.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Not Keefe related but Spittin Chiclets just posted that one of the first things Babcock did getting to Columbus was ask the players to see their phones and go through their photos to see what kind of people they are. Starting with Captain Boone Jenner.

To think that there was still people defending Babcock. His antics are f***ed up and he obviously hasn't learned a thing.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Extending Keefe was terrible management.

I'm not saying firing Keefe is the answer to the problem. But I'm not not saying it either. It's bullshit to save the "fire the coach" bullet.

They're supposed to be doing everything they can to win.

Keeping Keefe is an insult to a fan base desperate for success. Ether they're stupid or they think we are. Likely both.

Well Momma didn't raise no sucker.

Ain't ain't a word. Cause ain't ain't in the dictionary. Gullible, however, IS a word.

I looked it up.

I'm not falling for the same thing again. The reason the results are the same every playoffs is because Keefe keeps making the same mistakes. Blaming the players for predictable ineffective systems ignores the real problem.

That's Keefe.

Just because every coach since Quinn has been garbage doesn't mean this one isn't too.

 

[Mugzy97]

I'm still thinking we need a new coach in here. Keefe just doesn't seem to be getting the best out of this roster. It's the same issues to start this season that it has been for years. Team looks disinterested for 50 mins and then turns it on for the last 10 when it is too late.

I think leafs nation had him on a short leash to begin the season already. If we don't start winning the close games by a quarter way through the season he should be gone.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I'm still thinking we need a new coach in here. Keefe just doesn't seem to be getting the best out of this roster. It's the same issues to start this season that it has been for years. Team looks disinterested for 50 mins and then turns it on for the last 10 when it is too late.

I think leafs nation had him on a short leash to begin the season already. If we don't start winning the close games by a quarter way through the season he should be gone.

Dude. Don't pull your punches! Just say it! You want Keefe fired.

 

[Mess]

Former Leaf Kris Versteeg highlighted this in his recent appearance on the JD Bunkis Podcast this week, stating that Keefe playing some of his depth guys between 10 and 11 minutes, you're simply not going to get the most out of them and you're going to put yourself in a position where only half the team is engaged.

"[Sheldon Keefe does not] trust any of [his] depth to play, and I've been looking at this - it's a recurring theme from last year, the year before... you need to get guys extended, trusted minutes to get them in the game. If you expect Max Domi to score with 11 minutes [on the ice], or Matthew Knies with 10-and-a-half minutes... it's not going to happen and you cannot trust guys to give everything in 10-and-a-half minutes and be offensively relied on. That's something I looked at right away was the ice time.

With that type of coaching, if you're going to lay the hammer on the top guys and not find these bottom guys extended minutes and you're going to take that philosophy, again, into the playoffs, it's going to be a hard one to win with."

 

[Mugzy97]

Dude. Don't pull your punches! Just say it! You want Keefe fired.

Well yeah, I would have fired him and kept Dubas. I think we canned the wrong guy.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Former Leaf Kris Versteeg highlighted this in his recent appearance on the JD Bunkis Podcast this week, stating that Keefe playing some of his depth guys between 10 and 11 minutes, you're simply not going to get the most out of them and you're going to put yourself in a position where only half the team is engaged.

"[Sheldon Keefe does not] trust any of [his] depth to play, and I've been looking at this - it's a recurring theme from last year, the year before

Our 7th-9th forwards played 14-15 minutes per game last year and the year before. It's not a recurring theme at all. Treliving just messed up our depth, despite taking from our defense and goaltending to allocate more money there.

 

[alliuk12]

Christ stop rubbing it in the only coach that looks asleep while talking to you f*** tml for bring him back to damn cheap to get a good coach one that can get the team up and ready to play 60 min or you sit in the box and that starts from matty right down to brodie

 

[Gallagbi]

Our 7th-9th forwards played 14-15 minutes per game last year and the year before. It's not a recurring theme at all. Treliving just messed up our depth, despite taking from our defense and goaltending to allocate more money there.

Ita tough to find minutes for bad defensive bottom 6.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Jeez, thanks for the bump I thought he was extended again!

 

[WTFMAN99]

This might just be chalked up to an over reaction from tonight's game but it's a general feeling I've had for a while, even though I know "it's early".

There is too much carry over from previous teams that disappointed to this year's version of the Leafs.

Keefe is a big part of this feeling, I know people are going to point at the winning % etc but the same people will say this is a really talented team, shouldn't you be able to win the majority of your games with the roster we have?

Does anyone else feel the same? Is it fair to Keefe? Is it on the players? Are they both equally disappointing or are we still going to go with "It's early" ?