Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

[Generalsupdates]

I would look at retooling teams- teams that won’t be the greatest this year but next year will be their year.


Maybe taking on one of their 19 year old d men that is a top 2-top 4. If they have to send outwater with a pick that’s alright but the back end issue needs to be tweaked.


When burns comes back it’ll be better but the bottom 3 defenders (budnick, Schneider, Williamson is not strong enough for a team that is going to be probably contending this year in my opinion.


The team is very deep this year- 3 great forward lines when they’re healthy and a 4th checking line. If they lost outwater I’m sure they would be alright.

The only D I can really see fitting that categorization would be:

-Mayer in PBO (would need to open an OA spot)
-Brzustewicz in KIT (they'd want younger+more picks)
-Sobolev in NIA (would need to open an OA spot)
-Mathurin/Nelson in NB (each would cost a lot more than Outwater)
-Mayich in OTT (can't see them looking to move him, especially this early)
-Dionicio in WSR (import spot, would cost more than Outwater).



Dionicio and Sobolev are probably the 2 most likely because of the limited import market usually. Maybe Mayich if OTT has a bad 1st half but you'd still be waiting until December

 

[frontsfan67]

OK please hear me out LOL

Outwater is going to get you next to nothing at this stage. Williamson if he is just a body then fine.\

But to a certain extent, both are coaching problems.

If a forward is not playing, then he should be told and moved to the 4th line with the provision that once he gets his head out of his lower orifice he can move up. Believe me older players hate to be replaced by a rookie.

Williamson and Uens are the same things. If they are not performing then make them your 4th pairing on defence..

That is the only way that some kids will learn. Unfortunately, in this day and age, you can not use the same motivation as Bert, Killer and Cassidy did.

Players need to understand that just because I am a "vet" does not mean you are entitled. If neither of these things works simply trade them to Niagara for what you can get and move on. It might be low draft picks or such but at least you will have a team that hustles and can play. I would rather have a rookie that is putting in the effort and learning than a player that might or should be good if they tried on my team

Uens plays hard. the problem is his size. He would be a better forward but I don’t think he would be any more than depth for us. When uens has to go up against guys like Dylan roobreck he doesn’t stand much of a chance in his end. Roobreck lightly shoves him and uens is being put through the boards lol.

If the league was 5’8 like he is I’m sure he would be more effective but that’s the biggest downside about uens- his height. He’s one of the smallest in the league and he’s not a big strong d man like Nelson is despite being smaller


Williamson I’m sure in 10-15 games will be better than he is now. I don’t think he will ever be a top pairing guy but maybe a potential top 4 by his overage season lol. Gotta remember he is very young still only 17

 

[frontsfan67]

The only D I can really see fitting that categorization would be:

-Mayer in PBO (would need to open an OA spot)
-Brzustewicz in KIT (they'd want younger+more picks)
-Sobolev in NIA (would need to open an OA spot)
-Mathurin/Nelson in NB (each would cost a lot more than Outwater)
-Mayich in OTT (can't see them looking to move him, especially this early)
-Dionicio in WSR (import spot, would cost more than Outwater).



Dionicio and Sobolev are probably the 2 most likely because of the limited import market usually. Maybe Mayich if OTT has a bad 1st half but you'd still be waiting until December

Yes I agree with those guys.

I don’t know if they’d want to go all out on a guy considering most of the team should be back for next year- with the exception of the OA’s and Ludwinski.

That’s why I think they’d be looking at top 4 d man and not a Ty Nelson calibre of player.

I could see a swing on brzustewicz as he will be back next year but I don’t see it being very likely.

 

[frontsfan67]

Yes I agree with those guys.

I don’t know if they’d want to go all out on a guy considering most of the team should be back for next year- with the exception of the OA’s and Ludwinski.

That’s why I think they’d be looking at top 4 d man and not a Ty Nelson calibre of player.

I could see a swing on brzustewicz as he will be back next year but I don’t see it being very likely.

Scratch that. Just saw he’s an 04. That’ll be the last guy they go for probably.

About the imports I believe if they would get one they’d wait until January to do so as they probably have hope for pieniniemi coming over from Finland.

If he comes over I don’t think they’ll make anymore trades unless they’re top of the conference because he would help the problem with the defence.

 

[beastintheeast]

Uens plays hard. the problem is his size. He would be a better forward but I don’t think he would be any more than depth for us. When uens has to go up against guys like Dylan roobreck he doesn’t stand much of a chance in his end. Roobreck lightly shoves him and uens is being put through the boards lol.

If the league was 5’8 like he is I’m sure he would be more effective but that’s the biggest downside about uens- his height. He’s one of the smallest in the league and he’s not a big strong d man like Nelson is despite being smaller


Williamson I’m sure in 10-15 games will be better than he is now. I don’t think he will ever be a top pairing guy but maybe a potential top 4 by his overage season lol. Gotta remember he is very young still only 17

looking at his stats I fail to see how anyone can call Uens an offensive player. His numbers do not show it 133 ganes and

6

5

26

31

Uens needs more time to develop and also needs to learn his roll. At 5'9 he is not going to be a power in the corner however if he can learn to handle and tie up people infront of the net then that is a good place for him As to penalty minutes 11 minutes in 3 games to show that he is willing to keep opposition accountable is not a bad thing. He may also be announcing that this year he is playing with bite. Remember he never caused a powerplay he always took the other guy to the box with him. Reminds me of a couple of kids who used to do that Lance in Ottawa and a kid named Ling in Kingston.

I agree on Williamson it should be noted that he is not the worst stats-wise of Kingston d he is only -1. I think it is safe to say that laying third fourth-line D will improve him this year if the team actually has the staff to develop players.

 

[beastintheeast]

Scratch that. Just saw he’s an 04. That’ll be the last guy they go for probably.

About the imports I believe if they would get one they’d wait until January to do so as they probably have hope for pieniniemi coming over from Finland.

If he comes over I don’t think they’ll make anymore trades unless they’re top of the conference because he would help the problem with the defence.

Kitchener is going to want massive picks for their players and I think that HB is bound for Saginaw at the deadline unless Hunters come up with a huge offer.

As to D, you do not need a scoring D as much as you need someone who can be a stabilizer and help the D learn to play D and not worry about points.

As imports get interesting I still do not understand the Pienemmi fixation but then again I had trouble with @OMG and his Moldenhauer fixation. I think that if he is going to play in North America it will be at the AHL level.

There are always teams looking to trade imports the question then comes at the deadline are you a buyer seller or status quo? Looking at the East I see a lot of status quo where teams are going to say ok we are a top 3 team what is the benefit of trading Ludwinski at the deadline this year looking at next year and the future. I think that most of the east teams are going to be in that boat this year including Ottawa, North Bay and Bancroft.

 

[frontsfan67]

looking at his stats I fail to see how anyone can call Uens an offensive player. His numbers do not show it 133 ganes and

6

5

26

31

Uens needs more time to develop and also needs to learn his roll. At 5'9 he is not going to be a power in the corner however if he can learn to handle and tie up people infront of the net then that is a good place for him As to penalty minutes 11 minutes in 3 games to show that he is willing to keep opposition accountable is not a bad thing. He may also be announcing that this year he is playing with bite. Remember he never caused a powerplay he always took the other guy to the box with him. Reminds me of a couple of kids who used to do that Lance in Ottawa and a kid named Ling in Kingston.

I agree on Williamson it should be noted that he is not the worst stats-wise of Kingston d he is only -1. I think it is safe to say that laying third fourth-line D will improve him this year if the team actually has the staff to develop players.

You’re missing my point. If he can’t go into corners and all that then he is not a reliable defenceman and it would be better to develop the younger defenceman who is much bigger in size. (Williamson) 11pims in 3 games isn’t great either- means kingston is killing off penalties every game because of him.

 

[frontsfan67]

Kitchener is going to want massive picks for their players and I think that HB is bound for Saginaw at the deadline unless Hunters come up with a huge offer.

As to D, you do not need a scoring D as much as you need someone who can be a stabilizer and help the D learn to play D and not worry about points.

As imports get interesting I still do not understand the Pienemmi fixation but then again I had trouble with @OMG and his Moldenhauer fixation. I think that if he is going to play in North America it will be at the AHL level.

There are always teams looking to trade imports the question then comes at the deadline are you a buyer seller or status quo? Looking at the East I see a lot of status quo where teams are going to say ok we are a top 3 team what is the benefit of trading Ludwinski at the deadline this year looking at next year and the future. I think that most of the east teams are going to be in that boat this year including Ottawa, North Bay and Bancroft.

Yeah that’s why I said I don’t think they’d go for him because I said before they want a top 2-4 not a #1 d man that won’t be around next year. I thought he was an 05 but he is an 04.


There is a fixation because that affects the team. They’re waiting to see what happens before they potentially make moves bringing in someone who would fill his role if he doesn’t come here.


Again the ahl is around the same level of skill as liiga that wouldn’t make any sense at all.


Depending on how they do the fronts might trade ludwinski you’re right. However I could only see him being traded if they’re like 4th or 5th in the conference. I think they’ll mostly stand pat for the year here except around the deadline again if the import doesn’t report they’ll probably add a top 4 d man and see where that gets them.


This is still a building year for the most part. If they can add cheap OA’s or good quality players for cheap im sure they will do that. But I don’t see them swinging for the fences unless they’re in first in their division by January.


Also Bancroft isn’t in the ohl.

 

[ktownfan]

The problem again, is that we have noone to trade to bring in a good player. Ludwinski is our best, but where does he fiton a contender. He won't want 3rd line minutes, and he should be a 2C on a contending team. Budnick is a solid Dman, in my opinion on this team he is #2. I hate his tough guy act, but the kid blocks shots and is tough to play against. Shoots well and kills penalties. Burns is our obvious #1, but needs to tone the dumb stuff down. Uens was our return for Stewart who ended up at Ottawa main camp this year, what a horrible return for our most physical pplayer, who Ottawa obvoiusly saw more than Caputi and Cooper did. Uens is a hard worker but is not a Dman in this league. Outwater has very little value so he will be here this year. Frasca and Ludwinski will boost us for sure. Vaccari will have to pick up his game also.

 

[OHL4Life]

honestly, no reason not to go for it next year, not this year. only guy kingston loses is ludwinski, trade him for a very good 06 and run with a very good roster next year.

 

[frontsfan67]

The problem again, is that we have noone to trade to bring in a good player. Ludwinski is our best, but where does he fiton a contender. He won't want 3rd line minutes, and he should be a 2C on a contending team. Budnick is a solid Dman, in my opinion on this team he is #2. I hate his tough guy act, but the kid blocks shots and is tough to play against. Shoots well and kills penalties. Burns is our obvious #1, but needs to tone the dumb stuff down. Uens was our return for Stewart who ended up at Ottawa main camp this year, what a horrible return for our most physical pplayer, who Ottawa obvoiusly saw more than Caputi and Cooper did. Uens is a hard worker but is not a Dman in this league. Outwater has very little value so he will be here this year. Frasca and Ludwinski will boost us for sure. Vaccari will have to pick up his game also.

Ludwinski 100% would be atleast the second line centre on any team in the league. If they had to move him to the wing they would do that but no way would he ever be playing third line minutes anywhere.

Budnick is great at blocking shots. That’s it though. He has mental lapses very often. I don’t know if he is thinking too hard or what’s going on in his head. He’s not bad but not great. He’s a 19 year old defenceman and you’d expect him to be better having played in the league here a few years now but I haven’t seen much improvement if any.

Outwater would play top 6 minutes on most teams in the league whether it is as a centre or winger. There isn’t as much value for a 19 year old that can do that as opposed to an 18 year old. However he isn’t drafted and will likely be back next year too. So you’re getting 2 full years of a top 6 forward. Top line on the right team. I’m sure someone will pay for that.

honestly, no reason not to go for it next year, not this year. only guy kingston loses is ludwinski, trade him for a very good 06 and run with a very good roster next year.

I’d love if they did that. Before they made the trade for Holmes and savard I wanted that to happen.

However with those two I’d assume they are thinking of going for it this year.

If they did go for it this year though it is a weaker eastern conference probably the weakest it’s been in years and they would be in contention for that.

If they did go all in they could trade off guys like miedema and burns next year and get most if not all picks back.

I don’t think that would be the smartest plan but they would get good packages for both of those guys if need be.

 

[HockeyPops]

I’d love if they did that. Before they made the trade for Holmes and savard I wanted that to happen.

However with those two I’d assume they are thinking of going for it this year.

Really?

There are better options on the market than Holmes and Savard. I assumed the opposite after seeing those moves.

 

[frontsfan67]

Really?

There are better options on the market than Holmes and Savard. I assumed the opposite after seeing those moves.

Imo they needed a tough guy or two. Or rather bigger guys.

The other day when they played Oshawa- Oshawa has 8 guys listed 6’3 or bigger. The only one for kingston is miedema at 6’4.

They probably figure savard could be the tough guy since he lead the league in pims last year and Holmes is a big body on the back end.

Both have good skill Holmes is a top 2 pairing d man on the team probably the second best one though but they’ll split him and burns up.

And savard seemingly can play any line 1-4 depending on where they need him. When ludwinski is returned I think he will play top line minutes with him and miedema as an enforcer type of player but with good skill.

 

[frontsfan67]

Really?

There are better options on the market than Holmes and Savard. I assumed the opposite after seeing those moves.

Also I think those two are fairly cheap ones on the market and they fill spots that the fronts needed so it makes sense. They probably haven’t decided if they’re going all in this year or next year so they didn’t want to go all out on better players with a lot of uncertainty. Those 2 players combined didn’t cost very much in my opinion.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Imo they needed a tough guy or two. Or rather bigger guys.

The other day when they played Oshawa- Oshawa has 8 guys listed 6’3 or bigger. The only one for kingston is miedema at 6’4.

They probably figure savard could be the tough guy since he lead the league in pims last year and Holmes is a big body on the back end.

Both have good skill Holmes is a top 2 pairing d man on the team probably the second best one though but they’ll split him and burns up.

And savard seemingly can play any line 1-4 depending on where they need him. When ludwinski is returned I think he will play top line minutes with him and miedema as an enforcer type of player but with good skill.

Holmes is a big body that doesn't play big. He has a helluva shot from the point, decent stick in the dzone but I don't see him as being all that tough - at least that's not the impression ive have gotten in the first 3 regular season and a couple pre-season....not saying he needs to drop the gloves or anything. Savard seems fairly adaptable, but he's not the fleetest of foot - so he'll have to hope he can muck it up and get the puck to the faster guys. I worry about his dumb penalties - so far 1 per game.

 

[HockeyPops]

Also I think those two are fairly cheap ones on the market and they fill spots that the fronts needed so it makes sense. They probably haven’t decided if they’re going all in this year or next year so they didn’t want to go all out on better players with a lot of uncertainty. Those 2 players combined didn’t cost very much in my opinion.

They cost 2 cards.

This Fronts team is 100% not going for it this year. The crop of 04s is not elite, and there are only 5 of them. Their best players will still be here next year. I am not seeing a contender here.

 

[OHL4Life]

They cost 2 cards.

This Fronts team is 100% not going for it this year. The crop of 04s is not elite, and there are only 5 of them. Their best players will still be here next year. I am not seeing a contender here.

i dont disagree with you, but they are like the soo, they are telling people they are all in this year.

 

[ottsabrefan]

I think they are in a two year window to go for it. They will save most the assets and really go for it next year but I expect they will add cheaply this year to take a run for it (and use the run as experience, generate fan interest and revenue) for next years all out go for it season.

As for the D problem, I think unfortunately it will have to be Callens that goes, and we use a second or third round pick on a real good OA Dman. Let’s also hope our Euro D pick shows up which will also help the top 4.

I think the best thing we can do with Outwater is get him scoring and put him in a position to succeed. We traded a lot for him so he needs to start delivering.

 

[OHL4Life]

I think they are in a two year window to go for it. They will save most the assets and really go for it next year but I expect they will add cheaply this year to take a run for it (and use the run as experience, generate fan interest and revenue) for next years all out go for it season.

As for the D problem, I think unfortunately it will have to be Callens that goes, and we use a second or third round pick on a real good OA Dman. Let’s also hope our Euro D pick shows up which will also help the top 4.

I think the best thing we can do with Outwater is get him scoring and put him in a position to succeed. We traded a lot for him so he needs to start delivering.

they probably can add dianico out of windsor for cheap given only a few teams will be able to get him. an 03 D like mayar would be perfect for them as well

 

[Petes1987]

they probably can add dianico out of windsor for cheap given only a few teams will be able to get him. an 03 D like mayar would be perfect for them as well

At this point the Petes are likely not trading Sam Mayer. If they were to trade him he would not be at a low cost. His asking price would likely be a 2nd and 3rd (similar to what Ottawa got for Jack Beck) or a player and a high draft pick (similar to the Michael Simpson trade). Mayer is not in the same catergory as the extra overages are. He is a player that would only be traded in a rebuilding move and as a result would only be traded if the return was right for Peterborough otherwise the Petes will keep him.

 

[OHL4Life]

At this point the Petes are likely not trading Sam Mayer. If they were to trade him he would not be at a low cost. His asking price would likely be a 2nd and 3rd (similar to what Ottawa got for Jack Beck) or a player and a high draft pick (similar to the Michael Simpson trade). Mayer is not in the same catergory as the extra overages are. He is a player that would only be traded in a rebuilding move and as a result would only be traded if the return was right for Peterborough otherwise the Petes will keep him.

im not talking about right now dude, calm down. i promise you, they will trade mayer eventually.

 

[frontsfan67]

they probably can add dianico out of windsor for cheap given only a few teams will be able to get him. an 03 D like mayar would be perfect for them as well

Dionicio is one of the best d in the league. Even tho he is an import and I believe overage too- he won’t be cheaper than a second and a third like Jack beck to the soo.

 

[OHL4Life]

Dionicio is one of the best d in the league. Even tho he is an import and I believe overage too- he won’t be cheaper than a second and a third like Jack beck to the soo.

i dont know if he is one of the best in the league. i live in windsor, i see him often. hes good, but not in the top tier, im not sure hes in the second tier to be honest.

 

[frontsfan67]

im not talking about right now dude, calm down. i promise you, they will trade mayer eventually.

Literally lol.

If they don’t recoup their assets that they paid out last year for a championship they’ll be mediocre the next 3 years because they’re definitely not winning this year going back to back.

They lost so much from last year already and they’re just getting started with the trades.

Lost probably their best forward in Othmann. Robertson won’t be back, hayes won’t be back, white won’t be back, beck will be traded by the deadline, they shopped Simpson, they’ll be trading the remaining pieces too- the question is when and where- the only ones i see maybe staying in ptbo is gauvreau and maybe Dubois.

But with Dubois his trade value is probably higher than they ever thought it would be after this past week so I don’t even think he is safe.

 

[ohloutsider]

Dionicio is one of the best d in the league. Even tho he is an import and I believe overage too- he won’t be cheaper than a second and a third like Jack beck to the soo.

He is not an OA, but is an import.