Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

[Handcuffhockey]

The game within the game. Great team effort. In the pre season I stated how everyone on Kingston stood around and did nothing when Ottawa player hit Poole high with a cheap shot. Different story yesterday, Poole gets boarded by Toms and Uens responds shifts later with a pretty decent tilt where Toms had to leave the ice. One of the first guys off the bench to the penalty box to congratulate Uens was Poole. That type of stuff pulls teams together pretty quick.
Great job by Uens to show the team sticks up for each other.

McGowan was awesome. Savard was in the Gens face all night. The shift of Savard, Poole, and Heyes to get the winning goal was terrific, great forecheck, dominating presence and beautiful goal. Vaccari made some real good saves, nice rebound game for him. Holmes is a great OA. Heyes great on the PK, the PK was great.

They finally get the puck to him on the PP and his bullet shot goes in. I don’t like how Miedema is trying to take every shot on the PP and holding on to it while fighting off multiple players, he could be such a dominate player if he moves the puck more. Tibideau fighting the same issue, trying to do it all himself, he’s been shut out now with no points in preseason or the first couple of games. He’s taken some very big hits, good on him for getting up but he’s turning over pucks, taking bad percentage shots and not using his team mates. Should be a slug fest in Oshawa tomorrow.

 

[beastintheeast]

Who do you see riding the stands when Ludwinski returns? Also, what are our thoughts as to what happens if he stays the 8 games?
Considering you are missing 2 of your leaders I think it was a good weekend. Now it is just to see what they can do over the long haul.
Congrats on a good start.

 

[frontsfan67]

Who do you see riding the stands when Ludwinski returns? Also, what are our thoughts as to what happens if he stays the 8 games?
Considering you are missing 2 of your leaders I think it was a good weekend. Now it is just to see what they can do over the long haul.
Congrats on a good start.

We still have a game to play against Oshawa tomorrow at 6:05 it’s their home opener so not quite done yet but I’ve been impressed with the effort so far despite missing some key players. If they can pull off the win I’d say it’s an impressive weekend for sure.

Right now Caputi has all 4 lines very even and it seems everyone is playing fairly even minutes this far atleast up front. When ludwinski comes back and burns gets healthy I think they’ll go back to normal. When frasca comes back in a while it’ll be interesting to see if they keep him at centre or move him to wing.

Because as I see it the 5 centres will be
1-Ludwinski
2- outwater
3-Hopkins
4-poole
5- cavallin.


Adding in frasca would probably mean they would trade cavallin or move him to the wing and he sits games and 1 of Hopkins or frasca goes to a wing spot while the other centres the third line.


Log jam at the C spot for sure. I see trades being made 100%. Not to mention thibodeau also plays centre but I think they’ll keep him at wing mostly

 

[frontsfan67]

When everyone is finally back I think these should be the lines

1- LW Miedema C Ludwinski RW Savard (need tough guy protecting those two and he’s skilled enough.)

2- thibodeau/Battaglia at LW Outwater/Frasca C and Soto RW

3 Thibodeau/Battaglia/Hopkins LW Outwater/Frasca C Hemstrom RW

4 Callens LW Poole C Heyes RW

Extra F Cavallin


Very good three lines and then a checking 4th line. I think moving callens would be a good move though and trying to buff up the d with a top 2-4 right d man and have them anchor our third line sending Williamson down or as the extra.


This is the defence as I see it. I’d split up Holmes and burns as they’re the 2 best and make the lines more even.


LD Budnick RD Burns
LD McGowan RD Holmes
LD Schneider RD Williamson***


1 Vaccari
2 Salajko (obviously)

 

[zaluty]

When everyone is finally back I think these should be the lines

1- LW Miedema C Ludwinski RW Savard (need tough guy protecting those two and he’s skilled enough.)

2- thibodeau/Battaglia at LW Outwater/Frasca C and Soto RW

3 Thibodeau/Battaglia/Hopkins LW Outwater/Frasca C Hemstrom RW

4 Callens LW Poole C Heyes RW

Extra F Cavallin

You are missing Brooks but I imagine he goes into the extra category

 

[FrontalLobe]

You are missing Brooks but I imagine he goes into the extra category

I can't figure out Frontsfan67. At times I like his takes and at other times it's like he doesn't have eyes. Ya he missed Brooks.. But not having Uens in top 6 D and not even listing him ss an extra makes me not want to pay attention to anything he posts.

Our top 3 D so far have been Holmes, McGowan, and Uens. There is no debating it. Watch the games.

3 games in and here are are early takes. Debate and prove me wrong.

This coaching staff needs to go! First and foremost.

Does Budnick even want to be here? We need more from him. Supposed to be a top guy but not showing anything near it.

Split Budnick and Holmes up. It's not working! They are not the "shut down" D pair. They are just not! They don't p[lay well together. Best shifts are when apart. But coaches would have to watch video to recognize that, apparently they dont.

Absolutely no earn your ice time again this year to start. Just run kids out there based on their draft position and who the coach gets paid to skate in the summer. Heyes and Poole won the last game for us but the soft fwds get all the ice and entitled minutes again tonight.

And yes a few goals tonight but by soft I mean Thibodeau, Battaglia, and Outwater.

Williamson is not OHL ready. I like him and think he will be good but he needs some time yet.

 

[frontsfan67]

You are missing Brooks but I imagine he goes into the extra category

You’re right. But I have heard he was sent home along with Nolan ling

 

[frontsfan67]

I can't figure out Frontsfan67. At times I like his takes and at other times it's like he doesn't have eyes. Ya he missed Brooks.. But not having Uens in top 6 D and not even listing him ss an extra makes me not want to pay attention to anything he posts.

Our top 3 D so far have been Holmes, McGowan, and Uens. There is no debating it. Watch the games.

3 games in and here are are early takes. Debate and prove me wrong.

This coaching staff needs to go! First and foremost.

Does Budnick even want to be here? We need more from him. Supposed to be a top guy but not showing anything near it.

Split Budnick and Holmes up. It's not working! They are not the "shut down" D pair. They are just not! They don't p[lay well together. Best shifts are when apart. But coaches would have to watch video to recognize that, apparently they dont.

Absolutely no earn your ice time again this year to start. Just run kids out there based on their draft position and who the coach gets paid to skate in the summer. Heyes and Poole won the last game for us but the soft fwds get all the ice and entitled minutes again tonight.

And yes a few goals tonight but by soft I mean Thibodeau, Battaglia, and Outwater.

Williamson is not OHL ready. I like him and think he will be good but he needs some time yet.

Uens is a terrible defenceman. Are you watching the games? Offence is all he can do. He’s too small to hit and he gets knocked off the puck easily. He only is playing since burns is out. You’re right I forgot to put him as I was going off of one of the lineups they posted on the Instagram story.

I agree split them up until burns comes back. Right now the defence sucks we have 1 good line and the rest are iffy.

Yes those 3 have been struggling but you have to realize they’re missing ludwinski so the lines are all f-ed up.


I’ve been more impressed with Williamson this season so far than Schneider but yes I don’t think either of those guys improved lots over the summertime and maybe it’s time to bring in 18 or 19 year old defencemen to replace them but that could be costly.

I’ve heard McGowan is hurt now from the fight last game. Ludwinski hasn’t played well in pre season first game 1 shot this past one against Detroit 0 shots. I think he will be sent back. Still no word on burns about how severe his injury is so that worry’s me. Perhaps he is week to week?

 

[beastintheeast]

Is it my imagination or is vaccari going to be a trailing forward dream with all the big rebounds?

 

[frontsfan67]

Is it my imagination or is vaccari going to be a trailing forward dream with all the big rebounds?

I think that’s been one of his weaknesses thus far. However what can you expect from a 5’9 goalie. Atleast his numbers are fairly good

 

[beastintheeast]

I think that’s been one of his weaknesses thus far. However what can you expect from a 5’9 goalie. Atleast his numbers are fairly good

Yeah, but scouting reports are going to kill them unless the defence clears all of them. Teams are not going to look at scoring on the first shot. They are going to have a trailer snapping the rebound. tey could get away with it when he was not the starter, but now that he is, and I am not sure they have a lot of faith in Saljko (who should have played a game this weekend) what do they do?

 

[frontsfan67]

Yeah, but scouting reports are going to kill them unless the defence clears all of them. Teams are not going to look at scoring on the first shot. They are going to have a trailer snapping the rebound. tey could get away with it when he was not the starter, but now that he is, and I am not sure they have a lot of faith in Saljko (who should have played a game this weekend) what do they do?

To be fair today they were missing burns and McGowan on d. They’re much better than guys like Williamson and Bergeron no offence to them.


I agree I thought salajko would play today. I think they wanted to go 2-1 this weekend and then he was going to start maybe next Friday but we lost today. Can’t go 1-3 to start the season I think vaccari will play the next game or two before salajko plays his first game this season. Hopefully by then burns and McGowan will be back.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

To be fair today they were missing burns and McGowan on d. They’re much better than guys like Williamson and Bergeron no offence to them.


I agree I thought salajko would play today. I think they wanted to go 2-1 this weekend and then he was going to start maybe next Friday but we lost today. Can’t go 1-3 to start the season I think vaccari will play the next game or two before salajko plays his first game this season. Hopefully by then burns and McGowan will be back.

I am sorry but I have disagree on the play of Vaccari having been in person to watch all three games. He's faced approx 40 shots each game - last night was 44 or something along those lines. The rebounds you are referring to have come after a second or third shot. Vaccari has been quite proficient in not giving up a lot of rebounds, he's pretty good at swallowing them up preventing those second or third chances. Why go to JJ when Vaccari stood on his head the game before? There is no urgency to have him start. This team lost last night because of Williamson getting walked around multiple occasions, Budnick playing like Jake Gardiner out there-- clueless rover-- and some weak puck battles by a few forwards.

Is it my imagination or is vaccari going to be a trailing forward dream with all the big rebounds?

It's either your imagination or the replays that you are watching that are only showing the goals beings scored

You’re right. But I have heard he was sent home along with Nolan ling

Brooks was released, Ling is off to the QJMHL - lost out on a numbers game. Honestly he was better than Williamson, Schneider and Bergeron the entire camp

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

I can't figure out Frontsfan67. At times I like his takes and at other times it's like he doesn't have eyes. Ya he missed Brooks.. But not having Uens in top 6 D and not even listing him ss an extra makes me not want to pay attention to anything he posts.

Our top 3 D so far have been Holmes, McGowan, and Uens. There is no debating it. Watch the games.

3 games in and here are are early takes. Debate and prove me wrong.

This coaching staff needs to go! First and foremost.

Does Budnick even want to be here? We need more from him. Supposed to be a top guy but not showing anything near it.

Split Budnick and Holmes up. It's not working! They are not the "shut down" D pair. They are just not! They don't p[lay well together. Best shifts are when apart. But coaches would have to watch video to recognize that, apparently they dont.

Absolutely no earn your ice time again this year to start. Just run kids out there based on their draft position and who the coach gets paid to skate in the summer. Heyes and Poole won the last game for us but the soft fwds get all the ice and entitled minutes again tonight.

And yes a few goals tonight but by soft I mean Thibodeau, Battaglia, and Outwater.

Williamson is not OHL ready. I like him and think he will be good but he needs some time yet.

I agree with your points on the D, although Holmes looked really slow Sunday night. Budnick is just a liability at this point. He needs to either calm down or sit down.

The only point about the ice time i would disagree with is about Poole. Poole has played a tonne this season already. He's been on for so many key faceoffs and penalty kills and taking a regular shift. He even played a few times on wing when Weir was benched (for half the second and all of the third). Weir is not ready for OHL -- he has skill and will be good, but last night in Oshawa he was lost and looked nervous/anxious whenever he had the puck and got it off his stick as quickly as he could.

I was a battaglia basher last year but I have to admit he has been a lot more physical this year than he was before. Outwater needs 25 pounds of muscle but start with the heart muscle first. Thibodeau was flying in training camp but is mostly ineffective so far this season.

Williamson is who he is -- I don't think he's going to get much better. Including last season and this season he's played in about 8 pre-season OHL games, plus another 9-10 regular season games last year, and the 3 so far this game. I don't think a massive revelation will occur. He is probably a 6-7 Dman at best, but we already have that in Schneider - Even with Burns back, I think they need another steady smart puck moving shutdown guy. I think McGowan was our best dman overall in games 1 and 2. He'll be back next week as his hand is apparently just swollen from the fight. Holmes is a pp guy - but isn't a shutdown dman - not physical at all. Uens is fearless and battles so hard, but prone to the odd grenade and stupid penalty. With Burns and Uens likely to be in the box a bunch we need a D that can shut it down.....cause it' ain't budnick.

 

[ktownfan]

You are missing Brooks but I imagine he goes into the extra category

Brooks I believe was released and , he is from burlington so possibly burlington Cougars or try to get on with a team in the Q

 

[beastintheeast]

I The rebounds you are referring to have come after a second or third shot. Vaccari has been quite proficient in not giving up a lot of rebounds, he's pretty good at swallowing them up preventing those second or third chances.

If the team is getting a second or third shot following up the original shot that is usually called a rebound. That is both a goalie and defensive issue. It means that there are rebounds and that the defence is not able t tie up the forwards or clear the puck.

Both of these things can be rectified but if not like i said it is gong to be a long year.

Why go to JJ when Vaccari stood on his head the game before? There is no urgency to have him start. This team lost last night because of Williamson getting walked around multiple occasions,

If Williamson is a crap player why is he getting ice time That is a coaching issue.

Budnick playing like Jake Gardiner out there-- clueless rover-- and some weak puck battles by a few forwards.

Yes I am looking at the highlight of the game and sorry yes he is facing too many shots but unless he defence steps up he is gong to be counted on to this every night which is not good.

It is early int he season giving JJ a chance to get on the ice as soon as possible is best.


It is early and you are missing only 1 D and 2 centers this team is going to have to step up. Good news is though that it is early.

Now Caputi and Cooper see what they have in real games so they can decide what is best.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Ludwinski returned to the Frontenacs by the Blackhawks this morning.

 

[frontsfan67]

I am sorry but I have disagree on the play of Vaccari having been in person to watch all three games. He's faced approx 40 shots each game - last night was 44 or something along those lines. The rebounds you are referring to have come after a second or third shot. Vaccari has been quite proficient in not giving up a lot of rebounds, he's pretty good at swallowing them up preventing those second or third chances. Why go to JJ when Vaccari stood on his head the game before? There is no urgency to have him start. This team lost last night because of Williamson getting walked around multiple occasions, Budnick playing like Jake Gardiner out there-- clueless rover-- and some weak puck battles by a few forwards.


It's either your imagination or the replays that you are watching that are only showing the goals beings scored


Brooks was released, Ling is off to the QJMHL - lost out on a numbers game. Honestly he was better than Williamson, Schneider and Bergeron the entire camp

I know it’s not vaccaris fault for teams scoring on the 2nd and 3rd chances but he has had lots of rebounds. My point is when everyone’s healthy and back I don’t see that happening. Other than that vaccari has been great.

Williamson isn’t ohl ready. He’s not bad offensively for a d man but he’s horrible defensively. I’d send him down for another year or trade him personally. He has potential but he’s just not there yet.


Ling was alright but he’s just like Williamson and uens. Good puck skills like an offensive d man but horrible on defence.


I don’t know what they’re going to do with uens but something needs to be done because he cannot play any defence. He’s also leading the league in penalty minutes as of now. So he’s a liability on defence and with penalties lol.

 

[FrontalLobe]

I agree with your points on the D, although Holmes looked really slow Sunday night. Budnick is just a liability at this point. He needs to either calm down or sit down.

The only point about the ice time i would disagree with is about Poole. Poole has played a tonne this season already. He's been on for so many key faceoffs and penalty kills and taking a regular shift. He even played a few times on wing when Weir was benched (for half the second and all of the third). Weir is not ready for OHL -- he has skill and will be good, but last night in Oshawa he was lost and looked nervous/anxious whenever he had the puck and got it off his stick as quickly as he could.

I was a battaglia basher last year but I have to admit he has been a lot more physical this year than he was before. Outwater needs 25 pounds of muscle but start with the heart muscle first. Thibodeau was flying in training camp but is mostly ineffective so far this season.

Williamson is who he is -- I don't think he's going to get much better. Including last season and this season he's played in about 8 pre-season OHL games, plus another 9-10 regular season games last year, and the 3 so far this game. I don't think a massive revelation will occur. He is probably a 6-7 Dman at best, but we already have that in Schneider - Even with Burns back, I think they need another steady smart puck moving shutdown guy. I think McGowan was our best dman overall in games 1 and 2. He'll be back next week as his hand is apparently just swollen from the fight. Holmes is a pp guy - but isn't a shutdown dman - not physical at all. Uens is fearless and battles so hard, but prone to the odd grenade and stupid penalty. With Burns and Uens likely to be in the box a bunch we need a D that can shut it down.....cause it' ain't budnick.

I feel like you and I see things similar Logo which is much different then how Frontsfan67 sees things. And that's ok, makes for good debates.

 

[zaluty]

Thanks for the updates on Brooks did not know he was released. They should get his name off the roster page.

 

[frontsfan67]

I feel like you and I see things similar Logo which is much different then how Frontsfan67 sees things. And that's ok, makes for good debates.

To be fair we are missing our best forward and best defenceman to go with a rookie forward who was 6th in pts/game among his draft class last year and would surely build from that while playing the penalty kill and power play 2 likely in frasca.


Ludwinski and frasca are 2 people missing from the top 6, powerplays, and penalty kills. And obviously burns too.


One thing I’ll say is I’ve been impressed with the penalty kill so far. Glad they seem to have things under control. They should be in the top 3-5 this year for that.


I think ludwinski when healthy should take a huge leap in points being healthy this year while being a year older and we know how good he is on at d. Should get 80+ points


Burns I would expect 50+ points this year while being reliable defensively and probably being top 5-10 in penalty minutes unfortunately. But we know what to expect with burns he brings it day in and day out he will be leading the defence.


Frasca I’m hoping for around a point a game season. Maybe a few games under it. While also playing great defence.


Top to bottom our forward group will be very deep. the defence is what worries me.

 

[frontsfan67]

also hear me out about this but I wonder if they traded outwater for a top 4 d man and some picks if that would solve some problems here. They could probably afford to do that and it would eliminate guys like Williamson (not ohl ready) and Schneider (didn’t improve at all) from playing as much.

Not sure what the deal would look like. But I hope they look into something like that. I agree outwater has no heart doesn’t play with any passion it seems until he scores a goal then has the big celly lol.

 

[Generalsupdates]

also hear me out about this but I wonder if they traded outwater for a top 4 d man and some picks if that would solve some problems here. They could probably afford to do that and it would eliminate guys like Williamson (not ohl ready) and Schneider (didn’t improve at all) from playing as much.

Not sure what the deal would look like. But I hope they look into something like that. I agree outwater has no heart doesn’t play with any passion it seems until he scores a goal then has the big celly lol.

What top 4 D are you getting for Outwater? I don't think he'd have nearly that much value as neither a young player ('05) nor a well established player (57 pts in 138 games)

 

[frontsfan67]

What top 4 D are you getting for Outwater? I don't think he'd have nearly that much value as neither a young player ('05) nor a well established player (57 pts in 138 games)

I’m not sure was just putting that out there.


He had 41 points in 62 games last year on a kingston squad that had the worst offence in the ohl.


This year he has 2 points in 3 games so far so he can produce. If he was playing top line minutes on another team I’m sure he would perform better.


I would look at retooling teams- teams that won’t be the greatest this year but next year will be their year.


Maybe taking on one of their 19 year old d men that is a top 2-top 4. If they have to send outwater with a pick that’s alright but the back end issue needs to be tweaked.


When burns comes back it’ll be better but the bottom 3 defenders (budnick, Schneider, Williamson is not strong enough for a team that is going to be probably contending this year in my opinion.


The team is very deep this year- 3 great forward lines when they’re healthy and a 4th checking line. If they lost outwater I’m sure they would be alright.

 

[beastintheeast]

OK please hear me out LOL

Outwater is going to get you next to nothing at this stage. Williamson if he is just a body then fine.\

But to a certain extent, both are coaching problems.

If a forward is not playing, then he should be told and moved to the 4th line with the provision that once he gets his head out of his lower orifice he can move up. Believe me older players hate to be replaced by a rookie.

Williamson and Uens are the same things. If they are not performing then make them your 4th pairing on defence..

That is the only way that some kids will learn. Unfortunately, in this day and age, you can not use the same motivation as Bert, Killer and Cassidy did.

Players need to understand that just because I am a "vet" does not mean you are entitled. If neither of these things works simply trade them to Niagara for what you can get and move on. It might be low draft picks or such but at least you will have a team that hustles and can play. I would rather have a rookie that is putting in the effort and learning than a player that might or should be good if they tried on my team