Player Discussion Kevin Shattenkirk

[NYR]

Shattenkirk on the top pairing?
Really?!
Some of you should just kick your own ass for being dopey..SMH

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The more I think about it the more impressive it is that AV created the Skjei-Shatt pairing. Like I’m fascinated by his thought process. Would love to get a glimpse into his mind. Like for purely psychopathological purposes.

His thought process was probably "Wow, this guy Shattenkirk has been horrific at even strength wherever I put him, so I might as well try this"

 

[Doctyl]

His thought process was probably "Wow, this guy Shattenkirk has been horrific at even strength wherever I put him, so I might as well try this"

Fascinating. There are more than one of you.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Nash and Shattenkirk have combined for 2 points in their last 10 games.

It's not inappropriate to have stern opinions about that.

Fascinating. There are more than one of you.

Moderates who realize blame should fall on both the player and the coach? Yes. I'd hope so.

Shattenkirk's game is so bad right now that blaming it on the coach/what pairing he's on lacks any critical thinking skills.

 

[DanielBrassard]

His thought process was probably "Wow, this guy Shattenkirk has been horrific at even strength wherever I put him, so I might as well try this"

Considering Shattenkirk has put up good numbers with Staal and McDonagh in their limited time together before being put with Skjei, and Skjei and Shattenkirk have been together most of the season and put up awful numbers, you would once again be wrong.

 

[Doctyl]

Moderates who realize blame should fall on both the player and the coach? Yes. I'd hope so.

Shattenkirk's game is so bad right now that blaming it on the coach/what pairing he's on lacks any critical thinking skills.

Shattenkirk is almost playing as horridly as Skjei is at the moment. Putting them together is supposed to achieve what? double the damage?

 

[Chaels Arms]

Shattenkirk is almost playing as horridly as Skjei is at the moment. Putting them together is supposed to achieve what? double the damage?

Seemingly everyone has acknowledged that AV is doing the right thing by essentially not asking Shattenkirk to play defense and putting him in position to maximize his offensive skills yet it's still AV's fault he's been terrible because Shattenkirk can only be useful when paired with Ryan McDonagh. Nice.

That's what you're ultimately saying here, right? Shattenkirk is only useful if he's paired with McDonagh. Or are you not saying that and just using this thread as another forum to criticize AV?

Just to be clear - I'm not even saying that's the wrong move. I just think it's quite interesting that we're somehow OK with the notion that Kevin Shattenkirk can't play hockey without Ryan McDonagh on the ice.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Seemingly everyone has acknowledged that AV is doing the right thing by essentially not asking Shattenkirk to play defense and putting him in position to maximize his offensive skills yet it's still AV's fault he's been terrible because Shattenkirk can only be useful when paired with Ryan McDonagh. Nice.

That's what you're ultimately saying here, right? Shattenkirk is only useful if he's paired with McDonagh. Or are you not saying that and just using this thread as another forum to criticize AV?

Shattenkirk played well with Staal, so no.

 

[Doctyl]

Seemingly everyone has acknowledged that AV is doing the right thing by essentially not asking Shattenkirk to play defense and putting him in position to maximize his offensive skills yet it's still AV's fault he's been terrible because Shattenkirk can only be useful when paired with Ryan McDonagh. Nice.

That's what you're ultimately saying here, right? Shattenkirk is only useful if he's paired with McDonagh. Or are you not saying that and just using this thread as another forum to criticize AV?

What? Hes being asked to anchor a d-pair while Skjei gets to run wild on the offensive zone and not play a lick of defense.

Shattenkirk was elite when paired with Staal and McD, y'know like when he wasn't being asked to cover his partner's defensive deficiencies.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Shattenkirk played well with Staal, so no.

How long and when have they even played together? Not being snarky, I just really don't know.

 

[DanielBrassard]

How long and when have they even played together? Not being snarky, I just really don't know.

They have played just over 100 minutes together, they were playing together right before AV decided to put him with Skjei for some reason.

 

[Doctyl]

How long and when have they even played together? Not being snarky, I just really don't know.

Shattenkirk and Staal played 10:22 together

52:16 with McD

453:07 with Skjei


It is abundantly clear which pairing didnt work. And to make things worse, he was absolutely dominant with McDonagh in those 52 minutes.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Shattenkirk and Staal played 10:22 together

52:16 with McD

453:07 with Skjei


It is abundantly clear which pairing didnt work. And to make things worse, he was absolutely dominant with McDonagh in those 52 minutes.

That can’t be right, I remember Staal-Shattenkirk being paired for at least a few consecutive games earlier this year. Weird.

Either way, the point still stands as you say, Skjei/Shatty have been given enough time and proven that they don’t work together.

Skjei irresponsibly runs around all game, he needs a stay at home partner. AV is essentially asking Shatty to occupy his normal role as well as that stay at home role in this pair and surprise surprise he’s not getting the results he wants.

Skjei and Shatty both need partners who are more defensively responsible than they are.

And I know everyone thinks Skjei is Jesus on ice, but truth is that’s he’s been just as much at fault for that pairing’s failings as Shatty, maybe even more so. Skjei has been really bad for quite a while now.

How AV has kept this pair together is beyond me.

 

[Doctyl]

That can’t be right, I remember Staal-Shattenkirk being paired for at least a few consecutive games earlier this year. Weird.

Either way, the point still stands as you say, Skjei/Shatty have been given enough time and proven that they don’t work together.

Skjei irresponsibly runs around all game, he needs a stay at home partner. AV is essentially asking Shatty to occupy his normal role as well as that stay at home role in this pair and surprise surprise he’s not getting the results he wants.

Skjei and Shatty both need partners who are more defensively responsible than they are.

And I know everyone thinks Skjei is Jesus on ice, but truth is that’s he’s been just as much at fault for that pairing’s failings as Shatty, maybe even more so. Skjei has been really bad for quite a while now.

How AV has kept this pair together is beyond me.

Just another instance of the eye-test letting us down.

Rest of the post is bang on

 

[DanielBrassard]

Staal-Shattenkirk: 105.47 minutes, 5.8 rel CF%, 3.73 rel xG%
Skjei-Shattenkirk: 457.22 minutes, -2.06 rel CF%, -6.98 xGF%
McDonagh-Shattenkirk: 54.82 minutes, 8.27 rel CF%, .83 rel xGF%

Via Corsica

 

[NYR]

You know what partner Shatty would most benefit from?
Girardi! Haha

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

You know what system Shatty would most benefit from?
One that isn't corn studded dog ****i! Haha

Fixed.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You know what partner Shatty would most benefit from?
Girardi! Haha

This made me laugh, but it also references an interesting point. Theres been a lot of debate on this board over the last few years about the attributes for a defenseman. Out with the old, in with the new. You gotta move the puck to survive in this day and age. The argument basically was that you can never have enough "puck movers" like Shattenkirk. But now, for some, the argument is that Shattenkirk needs to be paired with a "safer" partner to succeed? Interesting.

 

[Off Sides]

The attributes a defensemen needs? How about they can move the puck without constantly dumping it out, can skate enough to beat a forecheck one on one in order to make the pass, skate well enough to make up for their positional mistakes at times, and have some sort of defensive prowess/positional awareness. Basically what used to be called a good two way player. It's not easy to get a group like that but as is the Rangers currently only have one defender who checks all the boxes in McD, when he is healthy.

 

[True Blue]

Shattenkirk was elite when paired with Staal and McD, y'know like when he wasn't being asked to cover his partner's defensive deficiencies.

He was never elite as to be elite, one needs to at least think about playing defense every now and in a blue moon.

 

[True Blue]

This made me laugh, but it also references an interesting point. Theres been a lot of debate on this board over the last few years about the attributes for a defenseman. Out with the old, in with the new. You gotta move the puck to survive in this day and age. The argument basically was that you can never have enough "puck movers" like Shattenkirk. But now, for some, the argument is that Shattenkirk needs to be paired with a "safer" partner to succeed? Interesting.

Great point. I recall all of the arguments how he was a legit top pairing defenseman and a great shot suppressor to boot.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The attributes a defensemen needs? How about they can move the puck without constantly dumping it out, can skate enough to beat a forecheck one on one in order to make the pass, skate well enough to make up for their positional mistakes at times, and have some sort of defensive prowess/positional awareness. Basically what used to be called a good two way player. It's not easy to get a group like that but as is the Rangers currently only have one defender who checks all the boxes in McD, when he is healthy.

Im all for that. The problem is when any criticism of Shattenkirk's play on the defensive side of the puck came up, the Pavlovian reply would be thats hes such a good puck mover, the Rangers would be spending time in the offensive zone so much more that it mattered little. Well, it matters a lot now that his offense has dried up.

 

[Off Sides]

I never subscribed to that idea.

For Shattenkirk to be a success in my opinion, the power play and his production need to be stellar. Not all of that is solely on him, so even if unsuccessful I'd put that on the Rangers more so than him. He was, and is what he is.

I never bought the idea that a player like him can all of a sudden take a step up and play against better real competition. The Blues put him where he was most advantageous, it worked to a point because they had at least one player, if not two, to play in front of him to go against the best the other team had, they could put him out there against lesser players. To me that is the real meaning of sheltered, not just zone starts but coaching actively and consistently trying to keep a player away from the other teams best players when the game situation calls for it.

 

[silverfish]

Great point. I recall all of the arguments how he was a legit top pairing defenseman and a great shot suppressor to boot.

Shattenkirk leads the defense in relative shot attempts against per 60.

I think he's eating a lot of poor luck in terms of being on the ice for goals that are not directly his fault. I'd like to imagine a correction is incoming, but obviously there's no guarantee for that.

A main issue with KS22 right now is that he's not on the ice for a ton of quality chances for the Rangers relative to the rest of the team, which is a bit out of the norm for him. Would like to see him and Skjei split up.

( ^ 5v5 via Corsica)

 

[True Blue]

Shattenkirk leads the defense in relative shot attempts against per 60.

I think he's eating a lot of poor luck in terms of being on the ice for goals that are not directly his fault. I'd like to imagine a correction is incoming, but obviously there's no guarantee for that.

His offense is not making much of a dent on the PP nor ES. So while it is great that he is leading in shots per 60, it does not change the fact that it makes very little difference in the teams overall output.

As for poor luck, sorry. It is not poor luck. He is nothing but a glorified 4th forward that can play the point on the PP. His defensive play is awful.