Player Discussion Kevin Shattenkirk

[Inferno]

He aggressive shatty..but here..lemme pair u with someone whose even more aggressive than you so that you can't be aggressive because he's trying to go end to end on every shift...

 

[Doctyl]

He aggressive shatty..but here..lemme pair u with someone whose even more aggressive than you so that you can't be aggressive because he's trying to go end to end on every shift...

 

[Chaels Arms]

He aggressive shatty..but here..lemme pair u with someone whose even more aggressive than you so that you can't be aggressive because he's trying to go end to end on every shift...

He is being sheltered more than any other player on the team. Highest offensive zone start percentage. Lowest defensive zone start percentage. The coach is telling him not to be afraid to make mistakes. Play your game, take chances. If he can't get it together under those circumstances that's a problem. Torts would have had him on the bench ten games ago and probably more than once.

It's always someone else's fault when it comes to good 'ol New Ro boy Shatty.

 

[Doctyl]

He is being sheltered more than any other player on the team. Highest offensive zone start percentage. Lowest defensive zone start percentage. The coach is telling him not to be afraid to make mistakes. Play your game, take chances. If he can't get it together under those circumstances that's a problem. Torts would have had him on the bench ten games ago and probably more than once.

It's always someone else's fault when it comes to good 'ol New Ro boy Shatty.

Look at that video and say with a straight face that its Shattenkirk's fault.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Look at that video and say with a straight face that its Shattenkirk's fault.

That's one play. Look at his deployment and tell me he isn't being sheltered more than every other player on the team.

If he was Pavel Shatenkov from Chelyabinsk he'd be publicly enemy number one on this forum right now.

 

[Doctyl]

That's one play. Look at his deployment and tell me he isn't being sheltered more than every other player on the team.

If he was Pavel Shatenkov from Chelyabinsk he'd be publicly enemy number one on this forum right now.

What do you mean? He's already public enemy number one. This myth that he's gotten off easy from the fans because he was a NYR fan growing up is insane. He gets shredded every GDT.

Thats an example of why this pairing is a problem. You're asking Shattenkirk to be the defensive anchor for Skjei. AV paired him with the one person on the roster he shouldn't have. Its actually impressive.

 

[Inferno]

Put shatty with McD.

 

[Idlerlee]

Nash and Shattenkirk have combined for 2 points in their last 10 games.

It's not inappropriate to have stern opinions about that.

 

[Chaels Arms]

OK, let's shelter him even further by pairing him with our #1 defenseman. Agree to disagree on this one.

Should be fun to see what happens if we get a coach that asks him to, you know, play defense. Maybe even take a d zone shift once in a blue moon.

 

[bl02]

Nash and Shattenkirk have combined for 2 points in their last 10 games.

It's not inappropriate to have stern opinions about that.

It's not their fault of course. Never the players fault.

 

[leetch99]

It's not their fault of course. Never the players fault.

I would try to fix one of his biggest problems by making him wear earplugs.....the sound of approaching skates absolutely turns him into one of the worse turn over players that has ever donned a Ranger uniform ....or put blinders on him since maybe he is not deaf but color blind instead ? Either way...he is one scared chicken...but then again scared is a whole team problem outside of Smith as clearly illustrated last night once again.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Put shatty with McD.

It's worth a shot at this point.

AV should give them a few games together at the very least. They played 1 and a half games together to open the season and that's it.

Give it a shot.

He aggressive shatty..but here..lemme pair u with someone whose even more aggressive than you so that you can't be aggressive because he's trying to go end to end on every shift...

You previous point (above) about why Brady and Shatty don't work is 100% spot on. Skjei needs to be the aggressive one on his pair, it's why he worked with Smith covering for him last year.

Staal-Shatty was a better pair than Skjei-Shatty.

By putting Skjei-Shatty together you're diminishing both players offensively and defensively. They each need to be the rover on their own pair. Together they make no sense.

Why is AV not trying new pairs? Current pairs have been a failure in every way. His only card he plays is scratching Smith.

How about a full shakeup:

McD-Shatty
Skjei-Smith
Staal-Holden

Why not try it?

 

[TheTakedown]

Diminishing offensive ability is something of AV's mantra... He LOVES guys that play "200 foot games". Guys with a better "all around game" style will always take priority, while guys that specialize in offense but are lackluster defensively get "better" assignments, but since those assignments (e.g. lesser quality players) get less time, your higher end offensive players also get less time.

It's not that it's wrong--I get the idea in theory--your "defensively lesser" players can get less time, but against better matchups...

But what happens when the opposing team knows this, and simply plays his lesser players LESS?

Well, now you see it.

Also I hate Skjei-Shattenkirk. The pairings should be this:

McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Smith
Staal-Kampfer/Holden

How Holden still has the top pairing is beyond me. I am not sure what AV is trying to accomplish, but there is no way in hell you can tell me that Holden is playing the top pairing better than Shattenkirk...

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Diminishing offensive ability is something of AV's mantra... He likes to play "200 foot players", and guys that specialize in offense but are lackluster defensively get mediocre assignments. While I think the idea isn't wrong (AV does it so that these guys get better matchups), it's stupid to play your best players less because the opposing teams lesser-quality players also play less... You're shooting yourself in the foot with that thinking.

It's forwards and defense, too.

Far too often we see a game where Desharnais and Carey played more than Zibanejad and Kreider, because that's how AV's matchups worked out.

At a certain point, you're shooting yourself in the foot by trying to over think the game and not just riding your best horses. There's a certain sweet spot between rolling 4 lines and maximizing each of them appropriately and then rolling 4 lines too evenly so you diminish returns from your better players.

 

[TheTakedown]

It's forwards and defense, too.

Far too often we see a game where Desharnais and Carey played more than Zibanejad and Kreider, because that's how AV's matchups worked out.

At a certain point, you're shooting yourself in the foot by trying to over think the game and not just riding your best horses. There's a certain sweet spot between rolling 4 lines and maximizing each of them appropriately and then rolling 4 lines too evenly so you diminish returns from your better players.

That's exactly the problem here... He's trying so hard to "maximize the return of the roster" that the guys who need additional time to reap returns get lesser time, and in turn the lower end plugs get more time...

And then you have Shattenkirk sending stretch passes to Boo Nieves--because that's totally effective.

 

[SA16]

The term "sheltered" may be the new worst term in hockey.

Not to mention it's nonsense. I already showed a few weeks ago that a ton of D considered very good are "sheltered" by this metric. Among dmen with over 700 5v5 minutes played this year the following are top 30 in o-start% (700 chosen because that includes Shattenkirk and up)

Shattenkirk, Burns, Keith, Stralman, Karlsson, Hedman, McAvoy, Werenski, Jones, Giordano, Leddy, OEL, Martine, Muzzin, Chara, Trouba, Pietrangelo.

Some of those are offensive guys (Shattenkirk/Burns/Karlsson/Werenski/OEL) but then you have a bunch of guys considered very good to elite defensively and what do you know by this metric all of them are sheltered too. So if you're going to complain the coaches think Shattenkirk is bad defensively so they only use him in the offensive zone well then you better change your opinion on guys like Keith, Stralman, Hedman, McAvoy, Jones, Trouba and the like because it's true of all them too.

***edit:

Only 69 guys were in the sample so that 700+ was a bad idea. I cut it down to 500 mins which gives 142 players and the point still stands. In the top 30 in O-zone/(o-zone+d-zone) to factor out netrual stuff you have guys like Kronwall,Burns,Shattenkirk,Krug,Keith,Stralman,Karlsson,Seabrook,Jones,McAvoy,Klefbom...Hedman at 33 etc..

 

[Machinehead]

The NY Post has a really good article about Shattenkirk and AV. I suggest everyone check it out.

He's being given every possible opportunity to succeed right now. He had a sit down with AV where AV told him to be more aggressive and stop playing safe. His o-zone faceoff percentage is higher than it's ever been. He's getting sheltered to an extreme degree.

If AV wants him to be more aggressive, AV needs to stop pairing him with a f***ing 4th forward

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

The term "sheltered" may be the new worst term in hockey.

Agreed. A lot of the usage on this board isn't correct.

Giving your best offensive defenseman on your team a high number of offensive zone starts isn't sheltering him, it's trying to put him in a position to succeed. He's at his best in the O zone, so it stands to reason he should be starting there as much as possible.

Having a weak 3rd pair and intentionally skipping them in the rotation and only putting them out there vs the other team's 3rd and 4th line and trying not to start them in their own zone, while getting far less minutes than the rest of the group, that's sheltering.

Shattenkirk isn't being sheltered, he's being deployed the way an offensive D man should be.

The issue is that he needs a partner that isn't Brady Skjei, because that pair is not working and not going to work. They're a bad match.

AV's gotta go back to McD-Shatty. McD is a better match because he's better defensively than Skjei and more responsible. Skjei is a bit more of a loose cannon and tries to go end to end every shift, mitigating Shatty's role.

McD-Shatty
Smith-Skjei

OR

McD-Holden if he must
Smith-Shatty
Staal-Skjei

All I know is that by continuing to trot out Skjei-Shatty as a pair, AV is shooting himself in the foot because he's getting less out of what should be two of his best defensemen by using them in a pair that isn't working.

 

[Doctyl]

The more I think about it the more impressive it is that AV created the Skjei-Shatt pairing. Like I’m fascinated by his thought process. Would love to get a glimpse into his mind. Like for purely psychopathological purposes.

 

[bl02]

I'm all good with Skjei and Smith going back together because honestly they are the only ones who have any track record of being amazing together with this bunch. That 2017 playoffs (except for one game unfortunately game 6 vs sens) they were dynamic, physical and skating wise terrific. Usually Mcdonagh could carry some dead weight with him but this year something been off. Physical, mental, whatever.
The rest of the pairings is at best a crap shoot. I would love to see 27-22 work but i wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[DanielBrassard]

The term "sheltered" may be the new worst term in hockey.

Not to mention it's nonsense. I already showed a few weeks ago that a ton of D considered very good are "sheltered" by this metric. Among dmen with over 700 5v5 minutes played this year the following are top 30 in o-start% (700 chosen because that includes Shattenkirk and up)

Shattenkirk, Burns, Keith, Stralman, Karlsson, Hedman, McAvoy, Werenski, Jones, Giordano, Leddy, OEL, Martine, Muzzin, Chara, Trouba, Pietrangelo.

Some of those are offensive guys (Shattenkirk/Burns/Karlsson/Werenski/OEL) but then you have a bunch of guys considered very good to elite defensively and what do you know by this metric all of them are sheltered too. So if you're going to complain the coaches think Shattenkirk is bad defensively so they only use him in the offensive zone well then you better change your opinion on guys like Keith, Stralman, Hedman, McAvoy, Jones, Trouba and the like because it's true of all them too.

***edit:

Only 69 guys were in the sample so that 700+ was a bad idea. I cut it down to 500 mins which gives 142 players and the point still stands. In the top 30 in O-zone/(o-zone+d-zone) to factor out netrual stuff you have guys like Kronwall,Burns,Shattenkirk,Krug,Keith,Stralman,Karlsson,Seabrook,Jones,McAvoy,Klefbom...Hedman at 33 etc..

Yep. Plus we know zone starts really don't have much of an impact on CF anyway.

 

[DanielBrassard]

The Skjei-Smith pairing was highly overrated during the playoff run IMO, and the numbers seem to support that.

 

[TheTakedown]

The Skjei-Smith pairing was highly overrated during the playoff run IMO, and the numbers seem to support that.

So overrated that Staal-Holden was amazing, right?

 

[DanielBrassard]

So overrated that Staal-Holden was amazing, right?

Yup.

 

[gorangers0525]

Zone starts are such an inconsequential part of the game, and people treat it like best stat for defensive efficiency...its next to meaningless.

Nevertheless, Shatty does need to pick it up big time. He was better with both Staal and aMcD (briefly) than skjei.