Ken King; Flames Ownership no longer pursuing new arena in Calgary

[Mightygoose]

I expect for the Flames to wait for the Olympic decision and then if that falls through, they will put the team up for sale.

Hopefully a local owner steps up. The city is more than willing to negotiate, its CSE that is taking their ball and going home.

I'm thinking this is the next plan. At least the part of seeing if the city is moving forward with a bid which is a little less than a year away.

If Sion bows out (they'll have a referendum too) and the USOC puts their focus towards 2030, the city could be the last man standing....maybe get from leverage from the IOC...make them pay for the arena

 

[djpatm]

I'm still quite concerned about the bid. Have you read the plans? They're awful and would be an embarrassment to Calgary. FFS they want to hold the opening ceremony at the Stampede Grandstand....

 

[Mightygoose]

I glanced through it but haven't seen a visual of the grandstand but I take it there will be enough space. I guess it's just trying to keep the costs down.

The other thing that jumped out was though the arena is not in the budget,it's still essential and to have it next to the Saddlesome to cluster events together and keep security costs down.

Which is why I chuckle at the Mayor's suggestion that the hockey....one of biggest revenue generators can be played in other cities. It won't save them any money, revenues will go to other cities and travel/security costs would increase.

 

[muddywaters]

Would the city of Calgary rather spend tax payer dollars on an Olympic games for 16 days or spend the money on a new arena and stadium that the people can use for the next thirty years .... what would cost more and what would be a greater benefit to the people of this city ???

 

[djpatm]

Would the city of Calgary rather spend tax payer dollars on an Olympic games for 16 days or spend the money on a new arena and stadium that the people can use for the next thirty years .... what would cost more and what would be a greater benefit to the people of this city ???

Olympics would bring in way more in terms of facilities, infrastructure and economic benefit than an arena. Although there is obviously a big risk of it turning into a total budget disaster.

In it current form I see zero chance of the Calgary bid getting accepted, even if every other city drops out. I expect that once they turn Calgary down, they will work closely with a country that has been welcoming to the Olympics in the past and has better facilities already built to move ahead with 2026 with the IOC giving heavy concessions to them. Those concessions will be cheaper than footing the bill for a new stadium and/or arena and there is zero chance they go ahead with an olympics where the Grandstand is the centerpiece.

This is the Grandstand:

 

[Fandlauer]

Would the city of Calgary rather spend tax payer dollars on an Olympic games for 16 days or spend the money on a new arena and stadium that the people can use for the next thirty years .... what would cost more and what would be a greater benefit to the people of this city ???

I think the city answered that question yesterday.

 

[deckercky]

If the city pays to build the stadium for the Olympics, then the Flames would just be a tenant and wouldn't benefit from income from any non-hockey events, tax breaks, etc.. I'm not sure a successful Olympic bid changes things too much, aside from bringing in some federal and provincial funding.

 

[djpatm]

If the city pays to build the stadium for the Olympics, then the Flames would just be a tenant and wouldn't benefit from income from any non-hockey events, tax breaks, etc.. I'm not sure a successful Olympic bid changes things too much, aside from bringing in some federal and provincial funding.

Correct.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. CSE wants to have all of the benefits of a new arena with a tiny portion of the overall, life time cost. It'll never happen. And they can move if that's what they expect.

 

[deckercky]

And Vancouver Olympics left a few underused facilities, but forced a ton of infrastructure improvements that will benefit the area for a long time. I'm sure it will be a similar thing for Calgary if they get the Olympics. Winter Olympic don't need to be the same mega projects that Summer Olympics inevitably become.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The city of Toronto once owned the Skydome and build it in 1989? and a cost of 700m. They eventually sold to Rogers 15 years ?later for 87m. The big reason to see it that it cost maintain the dome was 100,000 a day even when it was empty.
Some developers just north of Toronto, wanted an NHL team. They had the 500m for a team, and wanted to own the arena. But they didn't want to pay for the arena or pay the cost of maintaining it.
I'm just saying, it isn't so much the cost of building the arena, it's the never ending cost of maintaining it and updating it. That will usually be the issue.

 

[muddywaters]

What infrastructure improvements and facilities are you talking about ??? Upgrades to the Olympic Oval and Bobsled track ??? The ski jumping facility ??? Road improvements ??? Please expand on that ..

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

folks, isn't that a major reason why the Flames landed in Calgary, was the 1980 Olympics

 

[deckercky]

Here's a pretty good summary. The Canada Line Skytrain (half of all public funds went to this) and the Sea to sky highway improvements were the most obvious improvements, but there was a lot of investment that continues to be used. Richmond Oval is the one underused facility from the Olympics.

https://islandpress.org/blog/legacy-2010-winter-olympics-vancouver

 

[CorbeauNoir]

I'm still quite concerned about the bid. Have you read the plans? They're awful and would be an embarrassment to Calgary. FFS they want to hold the opening ceremony at the Stampede Grandstand....

If that's the only way the 2026 Olympics even takes place at all it would be more embarrassing for the IOC, I think. If Calgary's the only interested host standing they could potentially wring out a lot of subsidized bonuses from the IOC to reduce the costs and provoke a more definitive and lasting push towards reducing the financial footprint of hosting the games for future hosts, both of which would make the best of an unpalatable situation.

My grievances mostly lie in Canada getting double-teamed by the IOC and FIFA in the same year, both being pushed forward with no referendum to definitively lay out the public's actual interest in either event. Why do we have to be the next Brazil?

 

[djpatm]

What infrastructure improvements and facilities are you talking about ??? Upgrades to the Olympic Oval and Bobsled track ??? The ski jumping facility ??? Road improvements ??? Please expand on that ..

Stuff like an LRT expansion to the airport and increased capacity on existing lines, plenty of interchange upgrades that would most likely need to happen, an athletes village that I believe would be turned into student dorms, better transit between Calgary and Banff and yes all of the other sport facilities that would need to be renovated or built from scratch.

That's all extra benefit that the arena wouldn't provide. The arena provides an arena for well off Calgarians to go to the games while pricing out most of the city. $100 a ticket minimum will make going to a game regularly a pipe dream for most families.

 

[Mike Jones]

folks, isn't that a major reason why the Flames landed in Calgary, was the 1980 Olympics

The Calgary Olympics were in 1988 - about 8 years after the Flames arrived.

 

[Hoser]

Edwards bailed to the UK some time ago. Frankly I wouldn't blame the other owners for using this whole hooplah as an excuse to sell and cut loose so they can do the same. Who wants to have money tied down in Canada with the governments we currently have?

Murray Edwards still has all his money tied down in Canada. He moved to London to get away from his wife's scandalous affair with, of all people, k.d. Lang!

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Okay I'm trying to keep the smug grin off my face but I just can't. I love seeing the Flames get owned in public like this. And Eric Francis is a complete tool lmao

 

[Ciao]

So, Gary Bettman lost the election?

I guess he didn't learn to win people's hearts. Who knew that threats against the incumbent mayor wouldn't work?

 

[Shawa666]

I haven't seen a more blatant example of expeditive brand killing since Loria and the Expos.

 

[donghabs98]

So, Gary Bettman lost the election?

I guess he didn't learn to win people's hearts. Who knew that threats against the incumbent mayor wouldn't work?

I'm very happy Calgarians didn't give into Bettman and the Flames. It sets a very bad precedent that if Bill Smith won. The blatant support by the Flames ownership for Smith was shameful.

 

[Mike Jones]

And Eric Francis is a complete tool lmao

Is this really news?

I think the worst is yet to come with Francis. In a recent Calgary Sun article he said that a new and badly needed library was a "questionable way" of spending city tax dollars.

Well Mr. Francis - I'd rather have a library people can access for free and learn something from than a huge palace for rich people who can afford the high tickets prices demanded for entry.

If the Flames do leave one of the things I'm really looking forward to is Postmedia giving their team lapdog the heave ho.

Here's the link to the Sun column: http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/10/17/francis-no-doubt-flames-were-election-night-losers

 

[cutchemist42]

I think this kinda proves how important and how much pull sports has over the the general public. In terms of entertainment, it's not what most people spend their time on.

There's been at least a few elections now where citizens had a say on stadiums or arenas and rejected it. These things actually moreso get built when people dont have a direct vote.

 

[saskganesh]

Murray Edwards still has all his money tied down in Canada. He moved to London to get away from his wife's scandalous affair with, of all people, k.d. Lang!

That's a story!

I was thinking the move to London was because, well, London is a prestigious address if you are rich. People certainly don't move there to avoid taxes.

So, Gary Bettman lost the election?

I guess he didn't learn to win people's hearts. Who knew that threats against the incumbent mayor wouldn't work?

Bettman lost the election because he believes hockey should stay out of politics. Hwoops.

 

[The Shrike]

If they want to retain the hammer in future negotiations with cities about subsidies/arenas, the NHL has no choice now. They have to set an example, and move the team to another city. Calgary is a viable NHL city, to be sure, but this goes beyond just one organization. It's not about something as childish as saving face either. If the NHL caves here, it will come back to haunt them every time a situation like this comes up, and the other side digs in and waits for them to throw up the white flag. Painted themselves into a corner on this one.