Ken King; Flames Ownership no longer pursuing new arena in Calgary

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Mike Jones

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Apr 12, 2007
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Was that Eric Francis writing that or Ken King?
what a shill
My bet is that he was using notes provided by the team. Isn't that how it usually works with a team's media people?

The thing that I find interesting is that he's being paid by Postmedia but is doing the Flames' bidding. If I was his boss I'd be asking some serious questions.
 

htpwn

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Nov 4, 2009
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Yeah, a typical Francis scare tactic piece.

I think this is a (delayed) rebuttal to Nenshi's comments on the OVG deal in Seattle with private funds....notice he puts Houston (and a lesser degree Quebec) as the bogeyman....how those arenas were funded are not a coincidence....more senseless propaganda....

The best propaganda stories are ones that you can't tell are propaganda. This... this is something else. Francis went full North Korea in that article. Next he'll be telling us how Murray Edwards shot 38 under par at his private golf club or how Ken King invented the hamburger.
 

Mike Jones

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The best propaganda stories are ones that you can't tell are propaganda. This... this is something else. Francis went full North Korea in that article. Next he'll be telling us how Murray Edwards shot 38 under par at his private golf club or how Ken King invented the hamburger.
And then he'll start talking about the missile tests...
 

madmike77

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Jan 9, 2009
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I read Francis' article in the Post today and was wondering how much Edwards is paying him.
 

CorbeauNoir

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Apr 13, 2010
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What doesn't make sense to me is the gigantic elephant in the room Francis himself points out and yet immediately contradicts:

After all, it’s only worth the two-thirds of a billion dollars if you sell it. It’s worth a fraction of that in Calgary, where the political and business climate is such that the reality may just be that the Calgary Flames have outgrown this town.

By that (I think accurate) logic, pressing for a new arena does nothing to resolve that fundamental issue which makes the entire dispute irrelevant...right?
 

MXD

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Oct 27, 2005
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I hope Eric Francis received A LOT of money to put down to paper his column in the National Post...
Because that is, frankly, a HORRIBLE piece of journalism.
 
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wpgallday1960

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I hope Eric Francis received A LOT of money to put down to paper his column in the National Post...
Because that is, frankly, a HORRIBLE piece of journalism.
Agree. I'm not as connected as some of our fans in Calgary are but as far as I can tell Francis has been nothing but a mindless shill for the Flames/NHL group threatening for a new rink. Shameless cowardly journalism.
 

djpatm

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Feb 2, 2010
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My bet is that he was using notes provided by the team. Isn't that how it usually works with a team's media people?

The thing that I find interesting is that he's being paid by Postmedia but is doing the Flames' bidding. If I was his boss I'd be asking some serious questions.

He doesn't have to worry about that because his mommy is the editor of the national post and has quite the pull in Canadian Journalism. Although she might even be a bit embarrassed by that horrible, shameless piece.
 

snovalleyhockeyfan

I'm just the messenger.....
May 22, 2008
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Just glanced at the piece, too, and all I'll say is that the discussion up there did not need this piece of garbage to show up in this national newspaper....I'm right, the National Post is a national paper in Canada??
 

MuzikMachine

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Nov 14, 2005
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The Flames won't threaten to move*, they just will. - Ken King on Prime Time Sports

* Our threats and warnings will be directed through our town criers and other people to do our bidding.

So what makes Francis think Gary Bettman will allow the Flames to be sold and relocated to Houston? If the Flames were put up for sale, what if another ownership group would be prepared to take the Victoria Park option (or at least negotiate)? The Coyotes have been sold and resold how many times and are still in the dessert.

Saying that, Francis did have a point about Calgary becoming less business friendly than in the past and Nenshi isn't a deal maker. What he fails to mention is that I don't think that the other mayoral candidates were prepared to use public funds.
 

aqib

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Feb 13, 2012
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Aren't the Flames top 10 in attendance? How is that outgrowing the market?
 

Mike Jones

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He doesn't have to worry about that because his mommy is the editor of the national post and has quite the pull in Canadian Journalism. Although she might even be a bit embarrassed by that horrible, shameless piece.
I didn't know that - wow. We should be holding him to an even higher standard.
 

Mike Jones

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Saying that, Francis did have a point about Calgary becoming less business friendly than in the past and Nenshi isn't a deal maker. What he fails to mention is that I don't think that the other mayoral candidates were prepared to use public funds.
Because of the downturn in the oil patch (Some former oil types I know use the word "crash") the city doesn't have the resources it once did so it can't be as business-friendly as people would hope. Our taxes have been going up steadily in recent years and a publicly funded arena would only send them higher. I have no idea why city leaders want to bid on an Olympics. They seem to have lost their minds when it comes to that. It's impossible to say if the other candidates for Mayor would have spent public money. Bill Smith, for one refused to speak publicly on where he stood on a new arena. He also refused to release his donor list (Something Nenshi did early in the campaign). And then his name was put up in lights on the Saddledome jumbotron at a Flames game just prior to the election.
 

CorbeauNoir

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Aren't the Flames top 10 in attendance? How is that outgrowing the market?

It's almost as if this persistent naive ideology of revolving everything around how many good ol' blue collar folks head on down to the hockey barn for a game is a woefully outdated view on the economics of pro sports or something.

Because of the downturn in the oil patch (Some former oil types I know use the word "crash") the city doesn't have the resources it once did so it can't be as business-friendly as people would hope.

It's not just the crash - the crash is largely over by this point and other markets are rebounding. It's that multiple levels of our own government are pressing their foot down on our proverbial necks doing everything in their political power to make sure the businesses necessary to actually recover from the crash never set foot in our province again. Furthermore they're doing so with a suddenness and a finality that gives the province zero room to properly implement any kind of rational transition.
 

blueandgoldguy

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Oct 8, 2010
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It's almost as if this persistent naive ideology of revolving everything around how many good ol' blue collar folks head on down to the hockey barn for a game is a woefully outdated view on the economics of pro sports or something.



It's not just the crash - the crash is largely over by this point and other markets are rebounding. It's that multiple levels of our own government are pressing their foot down on our proverbial necks doing everything in their political power to make sure the businesses necessary to actually recover from the crash never set foot in our province again. Furthermore they're doing so with a suddenness and a finality that gives the province zero room to properly implement any kind of rational transition.

But how exactly are these multiple levels of government being unfriendly to businesses? Oil has not come close to recovering to the levels that would allow for a significant number of new projects to start up and it is foolhardy to think a simple transition to non-oil bases industries will seamlessly occur to compensate for the loss of jobs. That's regardless of who is in charge. Last I checked, those multiple levels of government played a role in the approval of the Kinder Morgan Pipeline expansion. Seems like hyperbole.
 

Acesolid

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Sep 21, 2010
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After all, it’s only worth the two-thirds of a billion dollars if you sell it. It’s worth a fraction of that in Calgary, where the political and business climate is such that the reality may just be that the Calgary Flames have outgrown this town.

That's such crap.

It's unbelievable. It seems everytime anything goes even slightly wrong for an extremely profitable Canadian team the pathetic and false ''The NHL has outgrown Canada'' argument comes out.

This is idiotic. A huge share of profit in the NHL comes from Canada.

Garbage.
 
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aqib

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It's almost as if this persistent naive ideology of revolving everything around how many good ol' blue collar folks head on down to the hockey barn for a game is a woefully outdated view on the economics of pro sports or something.

the NHL is still gate driven so the fact that the Flames are in the top 10 in attendance does matter. Something will get done. It will just be a stressful negotiation
 

Mike Jones

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the NHL is still gate driven so the fact that the Flames are in the top 10 in attendance does matter. Something will get done. It will just be a stressful negotiation
I don't know if there even needs to be negotiations at this point. There's a good letter in this morning's Calgary Herald asking if a new arena is even necessary. The writer says that the Saddledome is still selling out so there's no real pressure to build a new one. The existing arena continues to serve fans so why change?

Link: (no title)
 

CorbeauNoir

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Apr 13, 2010
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But how exactly are these multiple levels of government being unfriendly to businesses? Oil has not come close to recovering to the levels that would allow for a significant number of new projects to start up and it is foolhardy to think a simple transition to non-oil bases industries will seamlessly occur to compensate for the loss of jobs. That's regardless of who is in charge. Last I checked, those multiple levels of government played a role in the approval of the Kinder Morgan Pipeline expansion. Seems like hyperbole.

Implementing an extortionately-high carbon tax rate virtually overnight - and then having our provincial government roll over and acquiesce to it without a peep. Approving KM for political brownie points knowing red tape and political resistance in BC will mean it'll never get built. Outright blocking all other attempts to get our products to market in other directions, forcing us to rely on a foreign country to get ANY kind of updated infrastructure built. All of these things actively foster an economic environment that actively dissuades energy companies from returning to Alberta. Justin has openly admitted it being his objective - and he legitimately believed that we're so stupid that we wouldn't have caught him on it so long as he did so in French.

You're right that a transition isn't seemless - that's why you're supposed to phase these sorts of draconian policies in slowly, over the span of years/decades so that something else has half an opportunity to come in. You don't actively punish the industry into an ongoing exodus within half the span of your term and offer NOTHING to fill in the gap. Well, you evidently CAN, but the results plainly visible here on the ground are speaking for themselves.
 
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tokyoite

I changed my name from "nipponjin" last summer.
Feb 22, 2015
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Why don't they renovate the present arena entirely for the time being ? Just like the Oracle Arena in Oakland, the home of GSW.
If the ownership wants a new one, they should restart the negotiations with the future mayor.
Foreigners like me find it strange that most Canadians are hatred of big business. A lot of people are even bashing at the journalist for siding with the team.
Fans need to grow up. Very silly.
SMH
 

Mike Jones

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Apr 12, 2007
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Why don't they renovate the present arena entirely for the time being ? Just like the Oracle Arena in Oakland, the home of GSW.
If the ownership wants a new one, they should restart the negotiations with the future mayor.
Foreigners like me find it strange that most Canadians are hatred of big business. A lot of people are even bashing at the journalist for siding with the team.
Fans need to grow up. Very silly.
SMH
For me it all boils down to why should my tax dollars go towards lining the pockets of people who can easily build a new arena themselves? I don't think that's silly at all and I resent a journalist bought and paid for by those rich guys telling me that I'm somehow wrong in thinking that those tax dollars should be spent on more important services.
 

CorbeauNoir

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Apr 13, 2010
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Why don't they renovate the present arena entirely for the time being ? Just like the Oracle Arena in Oakland, the home of GSW.

Because the team would have nowhere to play in the interim and it'd be every bit as expensive - likely more expensive over the complete timeline of the project - as it would be to just build new. Consider that Seattle's renovation project puts them out of physically icing a team until at least 2021 and it's costing them the price of a new arena just as a preliminary on-paper estimate. Once they actually start tearing things out and inevitably finding design quirks to work around on the fly, watch the price escalate even higher.

You only renovate with a project like this if you're on real estate so obscenely valuable you'll pay literally any price to hold onto it, MSG and BC Place are the other big ones that immediately come to mind but other leagues no doubt have similarly-scaled examples. Calgary's land demands/constraints are nothing like that.
 
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