Confirmed with Link: Karlsson and Donskoi re-signed (posts 14 and 16)

[hohosaregood]

Other option is just go through bottom 6ers every year. Decide Melker's not worth it, move on to Carpenter, decide he's not worth it, move on to Rourke, so on so forth.

I don't know how to use commas.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

But you want him to get rid of Melker for less than a year of production for Sorenson, Goodrow, or Carpenter? Wouldn't that meet your definition of making contract decisions based on one season (or a handful of games)? Makes sense.

Still #6/26 over the past 3 years. What else do you want me to disprove?

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...ters&minutes=300&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Playing almost half the minutes in his NHL career with Thornton and Pavelski will do that.

If the Sharks are going to be successful, Karlsson is a fourth liner. Paying $2mil for a 4th liner doesn't make sense. It's a lesser version of the reason we need to get rid of Ward. Any drop off from Karlsson to Carpenter/Sorensen/whoever is well worth it for the cap savings because that lineup spot really doesn't matter as long as it's not some Micheal Haley/Mike Brown type scrub.

 

[DG93]

But you want him to get rid of Melker for less than a year of production for Sorenson, Goodrow, or Carpenter? Wouldn't that meet your definition of making contract decisions based on one season (or a handful of games)? Makes sense.

I don't think that's what he's saying. He's saying that it is worth a shot to give a guy like Carpenter a chance to be a solid 4th liner (like Melker is) instead of paying Melker 2M for 3 years. Karlsson's contract is far from the worst on the team, but that shouldn't mean it's exempt from criticism.

 

[Led Zappa]

The third year isn't "chapping my hide" or anything, you were the one that got all upset at Sideshow in the first place.

And again, you aren't addressing my point: if DW had said "Melker, the most I can commit to you is two years", would you consider that to be not treating Melker right?

I wasn't upset at Sideshow. Just responding to him the way he responds to others.

Didn't know your 3 years was a question. Point is, I don't care. I don't care because for all I know DW wanted the 3rd year to have him as an asset to trade rather than losing him for nothing. Maybe it was a demand by Melker's agent and DW decided he was worth it. Can't know, don't care. All I can do is look at the contract and say yeah, meh or nay, so meh.

Point is, neither the 350K raise or 3 year contract bother me for a workhorse like Melker, who can play with Jumbo and Pavs when called upon. Many "better" players have been less successful with the Joe's than Melker. That's a good arrow in the quiver. Known quantity and all.

 

[FunkyPhin]

Maybe. But we can pay Sorensen or Carpenter less than that to do the same job so it's immaterial. To win a Cup in a salary cap league you need some guys making less than they're worth.

We all know those are bigger problems, there was just no reason to introduce an additional overpayment.

I don't get it, are we paying him less than he's worth, or are we over-paying him?

The guy is getting paid 2 mill and has shown he can be placed in a variety of situations and be trusted, I don't understand why you're this upset about it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I didn't respond to the point because it was idiotic. They don't need a "forechecker" any more than they need a speed merchant or a grinder. They just need a forward who can make a positive impact in a fourth line role with the ability to play further up in the lineup if necessary. All those guys I listed on the Cuda, plus others, can do that and they'll be a hell of a lot cheaper than $2 million.

You didn't respond to the point because you didn't actually have a coherent response to it that makes any logical sense and this post proves it. Equating a forechecker to a speed merchant or a grinder is actually idiotic. One is actually pertinent to building a team and is a legitimate role to play on the ice. The other two are just general attributes to a player and have nothing to do with roles and responsibilities. And this only shows to be further evidence that you literally have no clue about what it is you speak of when it comes to team building when you say things like that.

 

[Mafoofoo]

You all gonna look so dumb when the Melkman gets a hattrick in game 7 ot in the scf for us next year.

 

[Jwec]

I like Donskoi's contract but I would've preferred also two year deal to Melk man. But both contracts are okay and are not overpaid which is the most important thing.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

I don't get it, are we paying him less than he's worth, or are we over-paying him?

The guy is getting paid 2 mill and has shown he can be placed in a variety of situations and be trusted, I don't understand why you're this upset about it.

Everything is contextual. Melker might be worth $2mil in the abstract but it's an overpayment for the Sharks because they have so many other players who they can use in that role who will cost much less than $2mil. You've gotta save somewhere, especially when you have virtually immoveable contracts like Boedker's.

You didn't respond to the point because you didn't actually have a coherent response to it that makes any logical sense and this post proves it. Equating a forechecker to a speed merchant or a grinder is actually idiotic. One is actually pertinent to building a team and is a legitimate role to play on the ice. The other two are just general attributes to a player and have nothing to do with roles and responsibilities. And this only shows to be further evidence that you literally have no clue about what it is you speak of when it comes to team building when you say things like that.

What are you even talking about? You don't need forecheckers to build a successful team. Pittsburgh's only real forechecker is Chris Kunitz, who barely gets any minutes anymore, and they seem to be doing just fine. Besides we already have Hansen and Sorensen who are at least as effective on the forecheck as Karlsson if not moreso. Frankly, ridding the team of one-dimensional forecheckers and forcing our forwards to actually gain the blueline with speed instead of dumping and chasing is probably a good thing.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What are you even talking about? You don't need forecheckers to build a successful team. Pittsburgh's only real forechecker is Chris Kunitz, who barely gets any minutes anymore, and they seem to be doing just fine. Besides we already have Hansen and Sorensen who are at least as effective on the forecheck as Karlsson if not moreso. Frankly, ridding the team of one-dimensional forecheckers and forcing our forwards to actually gain the blueline with speed instead of dumping and chasing is probably a good thing.

lmao you think Kunitz is their only fore-checker? haha what a joke.

 

[weastern bias]

Who are all these other players that can be seamlessly swapped into Karlsson's role?

Karlsson's role on the team is essentially to patch a hole on the wing of whatever line isn't working at the moment, he's the only player on the team that plays on every forward line and he plays the PK

So who else on the team can play lines 1-4 and PK without being a liability no matter who he plays with and makes less money?

Not Sorensen, not Labanc, not Carpenter, I don't know who these mythical players are

 

[stator]

Meh, DW is signing these guys because there are changes coming elsewhere. Melkman and Donkey are continuity players for the next few years as the Sharks transition to a new era.

There's not much on the FA market for strong centers that are 30 and under, or not hindered by a 35+ contract. Some wingers are notable like TJ Oshie. It looks more and more like DW will try and work a deal with LV to poach what he wants from another team, and trade some draft picks. If this happens, it will likely involve a 1st round pick. Don't know what's the word on the depth for the 2018 and 19 drafts are projected to be.

2017 seems like a meh year to me. Wonder if timing allows DW to throw that one in the deal?

I'm in fear that the expansion draft rules will lead to a dominate LV team in short time.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Who are all these other players that can be seamlessly swapped into Karlsson's role?

Karlsson's role on the team is essentially to patch a hole on the wing of whatever line isn't working at the moment, he's the only player on the team that plays on every forward line and he plays the PK

So who else on the team can play lines 1-4 and PK without being a liability no matter who he plays with and makes less money?

Not Sorensen, not Labanc, not Carpenter, I don't know who these mythical players are

Karlsson is a liability on the penalty kill. He's terrible at it but keeps getting trotted out there because DeBoer has no idea how to evaluate special teams. All the guys you listed could easily slot in on any line and do just as good a job as Karlsson, who's usually more of a detriment to the top three lines than a boost.

 

[The Nemesis]

Meh, DW is signing these guys because there are changes coming elsewhere. Melkman and Donkey are continuity players for the next few years as the Sharks transition to a new era.

There's not much on the FA market for strong centers that are 30 and under, or not hindered by a 35+ contract. Some wingers are notable like TJ Oshie. It looks more and more like DW will try and work a deal with LV to poach what he wants from another team, and trade some draft picks. If this happens, it will likely involve a 1st round pick. Don't know what's the word on the depth for the 2018 and 19 drafts are projected to be.

2017 seems like a meh year to me. Wonder if timing allows DW to throw that one in the deal?

I'm in fear that the expansion draft rules will lead to a dominate LV team in short time.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Calm down. You should be used to that on these boards by now. We're home of the daily typing error that is Vlassic.

 

[WTFetus]

Calm down. You should be used to that on these boards by now. We're home of the daily typing error that is Vlassic.

At least those sound the same. Dominate is worse than your/you're.

 

[hohosaregood]

It's like saying defiantly instead of definitely

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I am so accustomed to grammar and spelling errors and so used to them by now that I just assumed you were implying you were throwing up at the suggestion of a dominant Las Vegas team, lol.

Meh, DW is signing these guys because there are changes coming elsewhere. Melkman and Donkey are continuity players for the next few years as the Sharks transition to a new era.

There's not much on the FA market for strong centers that are 30 and under, or not hindered by a 35+ contract. Some wingers are notable like TJ Oshie. It looks more and more like DW will try and work a deal with LV to poach what he wants from another team, and trade some draft picks. If this happens, it will likely involve a 1st round pick. Don't know what's the word on the depth for the 2018 and 19 drafts are projected to be.

2017 seems like a meh year to me. Wonder if timing allows DW to throw that one in the deal?

I'm in fear that the expansion draft rules will lead to a dominate LV team in short time.

What makes you suggest this?

 

[Anomie2029]

Really like Donskoi's deal. Good value, and I think the two year term allows the club to see what they've actually got. I think last season his production was obviously hampered by his shoulder problems. If he gets them right, he will be great value.

Karlsson isn't horrible, but I think 3 years is too long. I like what Karlsson bring, and I think last season when he didn't play the side certainly lacked the energy required on the forecheck. He isn't going to break the bank, but I don't think he needed that term.

 

[hohosaregood]

The main thing about Karlsson for me is that we know what Karlsson is. It's not like we're overpaying for past performance or for potential. He basically just got "the good grinder" deal, which he is. It's not too long and it's not too expensive.

 

[weastern bias]

He basically just got "the good grinder" deal, which he is. It's not too long and it's not too expensive.

Absolutely true

My problem with these deals is not actually the deals themselves, but the fact that DW seemingly never saves money when re-signing his depth guys

Burish, Brown, Wingels, Dillon, Karlsson, Donskoi, these guys got market value which makes it a lot harder to make tweaks higher in the lineup once your cap space has dried up

Now, guys like Couture and Pavelski were arguably underpayed when they signed their current contracts, so Doug seems to do a decent job managing the salaries of his best players, but he seems to have us too close to the cap year after year because the secondary guys never take a discount

 

[DG93]

Now, guys like Couture and Pavelski were arguably underpayed when they signed their current contracts, so Doug seems to do a decent job managing the salaries of his best players, but he seems to have us too close to the cap year after year because the secondary guys never take a discount

Great point, I agree. And you'd think it would be much easier to convince the depth guys to take discounts...there are often a lot of guys that could easily replace them.

 

[Alwalys]

Melker is a step above anyone on the Cuda in terms of complete package. The Cuda players are all at this point unproven, only Timo is really proving himself. Even Labanc is frankly dogging it right now. Carpenter is doing great but didn't knock any socks off at the NHL level (granted, very limited chance).

His motor counts for a LOT IMO on a team that continues to age, and in this league speed and motor are counting more and more. But Melker also brings some veteran experience which is important on a team looking to integrate some big, young pieces, especially ones like Donskoi that could go either way. And the young guys need a good example to follow.

Melker worked well on almost every line he played on because of his motor and overall skills, he could keep up skillwise in general and made room for others with his activity on the ice. That is a versatile, valuable player.

 

[Alwalys]

Melker also has the clutch factor. There's a reason we say the Melkman delivers ... he has score some VERY clutch goals in his time with the Sharks. He has both arguably and literally won big games in the playoffs, and you have to value a player that shows he can get it done in the biggest games, especially compared to those that never seem to rise to the occasion.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Melker is a step above anyone on the Cuda in terms of complete package. The Cuda players are all at this point unproven, only Timo is really proving himself. Even Labanc is frankly dogging it right now. Carpenter is doing great but didn't knock any socks off at the NHL level (granted, very limited chance).

His motor counts for a LOT IMO on a team that continues to age, and in this league speed and motor are counting more and more. But Melker also brings some veteran experience which is important on a team looking to integrate some big, young pieces, especially ones like Donskoi that could go either way. And the young guys need a good example to follow.

Melker worked well on almost every line he played on because of his motor and overall skills, he could keep up skillwise in general and made room for others with his activity on the ice. That is a versatile, valuable player.

Carpenter put up 4 points in 11 games and excellent possession numbers while playing with fourth liners. I like Karlsson as much as the next person but I strongly believe Carpenter could seamlessly replace him.