Confirmed with Link: Karlsson and Donskoi re-signed (posts 14 and 16)

[weastern bias]

Fine

 

[Led Zappa]

This is an extremely overdramatic take.

The NHL is a business.

They are also teams. This board has said nothing, EVER, when a top player like Couture or Hertl takes a bridge contract and then gets PAID on the next contract. Couture and Pavs contracts probably reassured Hertl when he took his contract. Karlsson has paid his dues. He deserves this contract and shouldn't be nickle and dimed because there are slightly cheaper, unproven kids nipping at his heals.

When the business of Hockey must take precedent, like trading Seto right after signing him, then make the move. This isn't one of those times. The signing is fine.

 

[Sysreq]

Yep, players are pieces of meat and should be treated as such at all times. Promise them the moon and then cut off their legs as soon as it works for you. Especially if he's overpaid (which he's not, but whatever).

I've been watching this show Scandal with my girlfriend. It's always got these people turning down 10 million dollar settlements just on the principle of the thing. Never made sense to me.

You want me to go live in Saint John's for 3 years? Play on the worst team in the league? Clean the Blackhawks jock-straps with my own tooth brush? 6 million dollars will definitely make it happen.

Honestly, I want to know how to get into your line of work if you wouldn't be willing to do just about anything for 6 million bucks. 6 million bucks is a whole lotta freedom.

 

[Led Zappa]

I've been watching this show Scandal with my girlfriend. It's always got these people turning down 10 million dollar settlements just on the principle of the thing. Never made sense to me.

You want me to go live in Saint John's for 3 years? Play on the worst team in the league? Clean the Blackhawks jock-straps with my own tooth brush? 6 million dollars will definitely make it happen.

Honestly, I want to know how to get into your line of work if you wouldn't be willing to do just about anything for 6 million bucks. 6 million bucks is a whole lotta freedom.

I have no idea what you're talking about

But I agree, in that I'd do just about anything for $6 mil.

 

[Juxtaposer]

They are also teams. This board has said nothing, EVER, when a top player like Couture or Hertl takes a bridge contract and then gets PAID on the next contract. Couture and Pavs contracts probably reassured Hertl when he took his contract. Karlsson has paid his dues. He deserves this contract and shouldn't be nickle and dimed because there are slightly cheaper, unproven kids nipping at his heals.

When the business of Hockey must take precedent, like trading Seto right after signing him, then make the move. This isn't one of those times. The signing is fine.

Your mindset is how Mike Richards didn't get compliance bought-out. If it weren't for his 'drug problem', the Kings would have been screwed forever.

I'm not saying the contract is awful. I'm saying that teams should not be obligated to pay players for past service. That's the biggest contract issue in this league. You shouldn't pay a player for what they have done in the past. You should pay them for the value you think they will give over the life of the contract.

Core players like Couture, Pavelski, and Hertl are different. Karlsson is a depth player, and Karlsson never took a 'bridge deal' with the promise of getting paid later.

You're acting like if the Sharks had said "two years at most", they would have been screwing Karlsson over.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

It actually is given his age and the term they signed him for combined with his production. And yeah it does kind of matter when judging the merits of the deal. As for internal options, you obviously are choosing not to acknowledge my point so I will state it again. Just because there are players in the system doesn't mean that they replace what Karlsson brings. Looking at production is just surface-level analysis. Other than Sorensen, nobody you list plays the role of fore-checker like Karlsson does. Just because they can do comparable levels of production doesn't mean they do it the same way and yes that does matter in trying to make effective line combinations.

I didn't respond to the point because it was idiotic. They don't need a "forechecker" any more than they need a speed merchant or a grinder. They just need a forward who can make a positive impact in a fourth line role with the ability to play further up in the lineup if necessary. All those guys I listed on the Cuda, plus others, can do that and they'll be a hell of a lot cheaper than $2 million.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

They are also teams. This board has said nothing, EVER, when a top player like Couture or Hertl takes a bridge contract and then gets PAID on the next contract. Couture and Pavs contracts probably reassured Hertl when he took his contract. Karlsson has paid his dues. He deserves this contract and shouldn't be nickle and dimed because there are slightly cheaper, unproven kids nipping at his heals.

When the business of Hockey must take precedent, like trading Seto right after signing him, then make the move. This isn't one of those times. The signing is fine.

Comparing the situations with Couture, Pavelski and Hertl to that of MELKER KARLSSON is completely laughable. This is a guy who's extremely lucky to be playing in the NHL at all. It sucks but those types of players are absolutely just interchangeable "pieces of meat" to use your term who you chuck out when you develop other guys who can do their job at a cheaper salary. No one in the system can do Logan Couture or Tomas Hertl's job at a cheaper salary.

 

[hohosaregood]

Karlsson's getting what he's worth.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Karlsson's getting what he's worth.

Maybe. But we can pay Sorensen or Carpenter less than that to do the same job so it's immaterial. To win a Cup in a salary cap league you need some guys making less than they're worth.

 

[DG93]

Nope. They don't have to protect him unless he has a no-move clause, which I don't know why he'd get one.

Great, thanks. Although now I am 99% sure that they'll go the 7-3-1 route...I don't see DW re-signing Melker to a 3-year deal and then leaving him exposed.

Maybe. But we can pay Sorensen or Carpenter less than that to do the same job so it's immaterial. To win a Cup in a salary cap league you need some guys making less than they're worth.

This. +1

 

[Led Zappa]

Your mindset is how Mike Richards didn't get compliance bought-out. If it weren't for his 'drug problem', the Kings would have been screwed forever.

I'm not saying the contract is awful. I'm saying that teams should not be obligated to pay players for past service. That's the biggest contract issue in this league. You shouldn't pay a player for what they have done in the past. You should pay them for the value you think they will give over the life of the contract.

Core players like Couture, Pavelski, and Hertl are different. Karlsson is a depth player, and Karlsson never took a 'bridge deal' with the promise of getting paid later.

You're acting like if the Sharks had said "two years at most", they would have been screwing Karlsson over.

That third year is really chapping your hide isn't it.

I am using the Couture etc... deals as an example of treating players right, when possible, in order to create a team that players want to play for and come to. I don't know how you could possibly think I was making a direct comparison.

That third year doesn't bother me in the slightest. The CAP will almost certainly be considerably higher, he'll be easily traded or he'll be worth every penny.

 

[FeedingFrenzy]

That third year is really chapping your hide isn't it.

I am using the Couture etc... deals as an example of treating players right, when possible, in order to create a team that players want to play for and come to. I don't know how you could possibly think I was making a direct comparison.

That third year doesn't bother me in the slightest. The CAP will almost certainly be considerably higher, he'll be easily traded or he'll be worth every penny.

This.........

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

That third year is really chapping your hide isn't it.

I am using the Couture etc... deals as an example of treating players right, when possible, in order to create a team that players want to play for and come to. I don't know how you could possibly think I was making a direct comparison.

That third year doesn't bother me in the slightest. The CAP will almost certainly be considerably higher, he'll be easily traded or he'll be worth every penny.

Treating Couture, Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Burns, etc. right is important for creating a team players want to play for and come to. No free agent gives a **** how you treat Melker Karlsson. Hell, most of them have probably never even heard of the guy.

 

[Satastic]

Third year isn't what I wanted, but I'm not gonna complain about it. It's a fine deal.

Donskoi on the other hand, I'm very happy about

 

[Antbox530]

Treating Couture, Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Burns, etc. right is important for creating a team players want to play for and come to. No free agent gives a **** how you treat Melker Karlsson. Hell, most of them have probably never even heard of the guy.

Holy **** dude. Lay off the Melker hate. We get it. We have some possible unproven 4th liners. Stop *****ing about LESS THAN 3% of the cap for a really useful player and ***** about something that would actually make a difference, like Ward getting paid 3+ or boedker getting 4, all while providing the same scoring with less defense.

There's a lot bigger problems than Melker getting 2 mil.
It's like complaining about it being too cold outside when you're in the middle of a war.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Holy **** dude. Lay off the Melker hate. We get it. We have some possible unproven 4th liners. Stop *****ing about LESS THAN 3% of the cap for a really useful player and ***** about something that would actually make a difference, like Ward getting paid 3+ or boedker getting 4, all while providing the same scoring with less defense.

There's a lot bigger problems than Melker getting 2 mil.
It's like complaining about it being too cold outside when you're in the middle of a war.

If the defense of the Karlsson contract is "at least it's not as bad as Ward or Boedker's" that's pretty alarming. We all know those are bigger problems, there was just no reason to introduce an additional overpayment.

 

[Antbox530]

If the defense of the Karlsson contract is "at least it's not as bad as Ward or Boedker's" that's pretty alarming. We all know those are bigger problems, there was just no reason to introduce an additional overpayment.

How exactly is 3% of the cap for a player that was 5/19 in PP/60 with over 500 minutes an overpayment?
You know how many forwards that were under him that get paid more? 5.
But yeah, 2 mil for our most useful bottom 6 guy is totally an overpayment and is going to single handedly destroy the team. Time to blow it up. The penultimate bottom six guy got less than 3% of the cap.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

How exactly is 3% of the cap for a player that was 5/19 in PP/60 with over 500 minutes an overpayment?
You know how many forwards that were under him that get paid more? 5.
But yeah, 2 mil for our most useful bottom 6 guy is totally an overpayment and is going to single handedly destroy the team. Time to blow it up. The penultimate bottom six guy got less than 3% of the cap.

If Melker Karlsson was the team's best bottom 6 guy then we'd truly be ****ed. Thankfully he's not even close. Even if Sorensen or Carpenter proves to be a downgrade in Karlsson's role, it's worthwhile because you save ~$1.3mil that can be put towards signing someone who will actually increase the team's chances of winning.

 

[hohosaregood]

I guess Melker is gonna be the new scapegoat next year.

 

[Antbox530]

If Melker Karlsson was the team's best bottom 6 guy then we'd truly be ****ed. Thankfully he's not even close. Even if Sorensen or Carpenter proves to be a downgrade in Karlsson's role, it's worthwhile because you save ~$1.3mil that can be put towards signing someone who will actually increase the team's chances of winning.

Are you that dense?!
Name a better player in the bottom 6, besides Hertl who we know isn't really a bottom 6 player.
Tierney? Nope.
Sorenson? Not according to stats
Ward? **** no
Boedker? See Ward
Hansen? Debatable
Timo? Not at this stage
Donskoi? Not last year


As I said earlier, why worry about the guy who's getting a fair deal, a cheap one at that, when there's players who get paid a lot more and do a lot less? If signing Melker to a fair contract is going to be a back breaker cap wise, this would be the most mismanaged franchise in all of sports.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Are you that dense?!
Name a better player in the bottom 6, besides Hertl who we know isn't really a bottom 6 player.
Tierney? Nope.
Sorenson? Not according to stats
Ward? **** no
Boedker? See Ward
Hansen? Debatable
Timo? Not at this stage
Donskoi? Not last year


As I said earlier, why worry about the guy who's getting a fair deal, a cheap one at that, when there's players who get paid a lot more and do a lot less? If signing Melker to a fair contract is going to be a back breaker cap wise, this would be the most mismanaged franchise in all of sports.

Because those contracts weren't signed today and this one was? If you think I haven't criticized Ward's or Boedker's contracts, feel free to look through my post history. Those guys are already locked in and unlikely to be moved, which makes it all the more important to go cheap on a 4th line winger when you have internal options to do so rather than paying a guy $2mil/yr for 3 years. And Hansen, Donskoi and Timo are all better than Karlsson. Sorensen likely is as well and, contract aside, there's no question Boedker is a better player than Karlsson as much as I dislike Boedker.

 

[Antbox530]

Because those contracts weren't signed today and this one was? If you think I haven't criticized Ward's or Boedker's contracts, feel free to look through my post history. Those guys are already locked in and unlikely to be moved, which makes it all the more important to go cheap on a 4th line winger when you have internal options to do so rather than paying a guy $2mil/yr for 3 years. And Hansen, Donskoi and Timo are all better than Karlsson. Sorensen likely is as well and, contract aside, there's no question Boedker is a better player than Karlsson as much as I dislike Boedker.

Ahem....
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...5&type=individual&sort=ipoints60&sortdir=DESC

If you're still going to argue over 1/70(1.4%) of the cap for a proven, reliable player idk what to tell you dude.

 

[Juxtaposer]

That third year is really chapping your hide isn't it.

I am using the Couture etc... deals as an example of treating players right, when possible, in order to create a team that players want to play for and come to. I don't know how you could possibly think I was making a direct comparison.

That third year doesn't bother me in the slightest. The CAP will almost certainly be considerably higher, he'll be easily traded or he'll be worth every penny.

The third year isn't "chapping my hide" or anything, you were the one that got all upset at Sideshow in the first place.

And again, you aren't addressing my point: if DW had said "Melker, the most I can commit to you is two years", would you consider that to be not treating Melker right?

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Ahem....
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...5&type=individual&sort=ipoints60&sortdir=DESC

If you're still going to argue over 1/70(1.4%) of the cap for a proven, reliable player idk what to tell you dude.

If Doug Wilson is making decisions on contracts based on one season's production, we have much bigger problems.

 

[Antbox530]

If Doug Wilson is making decisions on contracts based on one season's production, we have much bigger problems.

But you want him to get rid of Melker for less than a year of production for Sorenson, Goodrow, or Carpenter? Wouldn't that meet your definition of making contract decisions based on one season (or a handful of games)? Makes sense.

Still #6/26 over the past 3 years. What else do you want me to disprove?

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...ters&minutes=300&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC