Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part IV

[Inferno]

I posted these stats earlier in the year. It's simply not true that the Rangers PP1 played a significantly higher percentage than PP1s around the league. They were above average but by no means wildly above average. Many teams do it. Just you don't notice it because you don't watch them for 82 games.

Of the 31 teams the Rangers ranked 8th in the league at 67.1% of their PP time belonging to PP1. The league median was 63.9% and 9 teams were between 64 and 70%. They had 278 PP mins so the difference between their usage and league median usage comes out to a total of 9 minutes on the season.

Their usage was basically in line with most teams that do not run split units. The true extremes are Edmonton (87%), Florida (76%), Vancouver (76%), Washington (74%) on the high end and then Detroit (53%), Arizona (53%), Philadelphia (53%), Montreal (53%), and Anaheim (51%) on the low end.]

Their is also a pretty direct correlation between PP1 TOI % and PP%. In fact of the 11 teams with PP1 usage below 60% Arizona is the only one who had an above average PP% on the year. Conversely every single team above 65% (13 teams) with the exception of Vancouver had an above average PP% on the year (and Toronto who was dead average).

I would honestly not play the PP2 ever unless the game is out of hand (in either direction), the PP1 players were just on the ice and need a breather, or it's a 4+ min powerplay. That is, of course, not to say you can't mix up the personnel of who is on PP1 at times or even within a game.

So...much....this.

 

[Synergy27]

I posted these stats earlier in the year. It's simply not true that the Rangers PP1 played a significantly higher percentage than PP1s around the league. They were above average but by no means wildly above average. Many teams do it. Just you don't notice it because you don't watch them for 82 games.

Of the 31 teams the Rangers ranked 8th in the league at 67.1% of their PP time belonging to PP1. The league median was 63.9% and 9 teams were between 64 and 70%. They had 278 PP mins so the difference between their usage and league median usage comes out to a total of 9 minutes on the season.

Their usage was basically in line with most teams that do not run split units. The true extremes are Edmonton (87%), Florida (76%), Vancouver (76%), Washington (74%) on the high end and then Detroit (53%), Arizona (53%), Philadelphia (53%), Montreal (53%), and Anaheim (51%) on the low end.]

Their is also a pretty direct correlation between PP1 TOI % and PP%. In fact of the 11 teams with PP1 usage below 60% Arizona is the only one who had an above average PP% on the year. Conversely every single team above 65% (13 teams) with the exception of Vancouver had an above average PP% on the year (and Toronto who was dead average).

I would honestly not play the PP2 ever unless the game is out of hand (in either direction), the PP1 players were just on the ice and need a breather, or it's a 4+ min powerplay. That is, of course, not to say you can't mix up the personnel of who is on PP1 at times or even within a game.

Good stuff. Thanks.

 

[Levitate]

I think it's tough...on one hand yeah you want to run that PP1 out there with guys who have had some proven success on it.
On the other, the team HAS to develop their top picks like Laf and Kakko because they're the true future of the team
I think maybe I'd say that they should have/should be given longer looks on the power play if it struggles at times with the current group of vets, rather than one shift and then get mad and go back to what it was

As much as Kreider is excellent in front of the net as well I'd experiment with putting Kakko there sometimes just to get him some more minutes and touches too if we're saying there's no room for him on the wings/blue line

Finally...the Rangers are gonna have to figure out how to deal with Panarin demanding his linemates one way or another because while those grinders he likes produce decent results it is again going to stunt the growth and long term potential of this team and it's future if he can't figure out how to play with someone like Kakko or Kravtsov

 

[LOFIN]

Finally...the Rangers are gonna have to figure out how to deal with Panarin demanding his linemates one way or another because while those grinders he likes produce decent results it is again going to stunt the growth and long term potential of this team and it's future if he can't figure out how to play with someone like Kakko or Kravtsov

The best solution is to ditch Strome and get a good 2-way center to do the dirty work. Maybe even from within in the form of Chytil. That will allow Panarin to play with our talented wingers.

 

[Levitate]

The best solution is to ditch Strome and get a good 2-way center to do the dirty work. Maybe even from within in the form of Chytil. That will allow Panarin to play with our talented wingers.

Probably. I get Panarin feeling comfortable with Strome and certain types of linemates but againyou can't just stunt the growth of all the right wingers on the team because he wants to play with a grinder.

 

[SA16]

Probably. I get Panarin feeling comfortable with Strome and certain types of linemates but againyou can't just stunt the growth of all the right wingers on the team because he wants to play with a grinder.

How does it stunt the growth? You can just have three good lines. Pittsburgh did it with no issues with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel. Kessel played 18 mins/game that year. If Kakko/Lafreniere need to play with someone like Panarin to produce then they aren't that good anyway.

I highly doubt Panarin needs a grinder anyway. In Chicago he played with Patrick Kane. In Columbus he played with Dubois/Atkinson. You can consider Atkinson a grinder, I guess, but he's also a consistent 20+ goal scorer and isn't exactly like the Fast/Blackwell types.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

How does it stunt the growth? You can just have three good lines. Pittsburgh did it with no issues with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel. Kessel played 18 mins/game that year. If Kakko/Lafreniere need to play with someone like Panarin to produce then they aren't that good anyway.

I highly doubt Panarin needs a grinder anyway. In Chicago he played with Patrick Kane. In Columbus he played with Dubois/Atkinson. You can consider Atkinson a grinder, I guess, but he's also a consistent 20+ goal scorer and isn't exactly like the Fast/Blackwell types.

yeah I don't buy it that Panarin "demands" who his linemates are. He clearly just didn't like playing with Kakko because of Kakko's style and it isn't much deeper than that.

 

[CLW]

We have Gallant as coach now. He'll have all of our players play strong two way hockey. I don't think previous issues will linger for long.

 

[LOFIN]

yeah I don't buy it that Panarin "demands" who his linemates are. He clearly just didn't like playing with Kakko because of Kakko's style and it isn't much deeper than that.

It's not just about Kakko. It's that they want to play with Blackwell. So we are going to play Kravtsov in the 4th line again are we?

And it's not about Panarin here, it's Panarin + Strome. Put a different center with Panarin, and see if he still wants Blackwell on his wing.

 

[huerter]

And it's not about Panarin here, it's Panarin + Strome. Put a different center with Panarin, and see if he still wants Blackwell on his wing.

Can you clarify what you mean by this.

 

[LOFIN]

Can you clarify what you mean by this.

What I mean by this is that Strome and Panarin together play a style where they take some liberties on defense, and also expect the 3rd link on that line to do a lot of the dirty work for them. This is why they loved Fast, and then Blackwell when Quinn asked who they would like as their linemate. And then when they have the puck, it is very effective indeed. However, in the long run I don't think this is the way forward. Kakko and Kravtsov don't really fit that mold, does Buch?

So, you replace Strome with a center who is doing that dirty work and defense, and put a skilled winger like Kravtsov next to Panarin. Because we are loaded with skilled wingers. We are obviously discussing this in the Kakko thread and I admit I am very attached to Kakko, but this is a problem regarding Kravtsov's usage as well. Obviously, a lot depends what happens with Buch. If he is moved, then either Kakko or Kravtsov will probably get that top line spot.

 

[OrlandK]

yeah I don't buy it that Panarin "demands" who his linemates are. He clearly just didn't like playing with Kakko because of Kakko's style and it isn't much deeper than that.

Agree - Panarin didn't want to play with Kakko because KK was terrible on that line. Kakko got a huge opportunity there and looked like a deer in the headlights, and never improved from that. Immediately looked more comfortable on the kid line when he got there. No need to overthink it. Moreover,, with the benefit of hindsight, its ridiculous to argue that Quinn should have valued development more than results.

 

[CLW]

Agree - Panarin didn't want to play with Kakko because KK was terrible on that line. Kakko got a huge opportunity there and looked like a deer in the headlights, and never improved from that. Immediately looked more comfortable on the kid line when he got there. No need to overthink it. Moreover,, with the benefit of hindsight, its ridiculous to argue that Quinn should have valued development more than results.

Kakko was terrible on that line because Panarin and Strome were cheating like hell. That's part of the reason the Rangers have a new coach now.

 

[OrlandK]

Kakko was terrible on that line because Panarin and Strome were cheating like hell. That's part of the reason the Rangers have a new coach now.

Really. Howden would have had as many points as Kakko playing on that line, cheating on all. Fast did fine in that role. The important thing is to establish that Kakko is never at fault for his lousy play.

 

[Levitate]

How does it stunt the growth? You can just have three good lines. Pittsburgh did it with no issues with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel. Kessel played 18 mins/game that year. If Kakko/Lafreniere need to play with someone like Panarin to produce then they aren't that good anyway

Maybe it'll be different under Gallant, maybe it'll be different with a different roster, but the Rangers couldn't run three good lines last year and kept expecting the youngest guys on the team to figure out how to consistently play at the NHL level in a weird covid season all by themselves and get benched so Quinn would ride his top six more

Really though I think most coaches lean towards playing their top six more heavily and not a top nine, which I think makes it difficult to try to bring these young players we should be expecting to be the future of the team into a position where they can actually start being relied on

 

[SA16]

Maybe it'll be different under Gallant, maybe it'll be different with a different roster, but the Rangers couldn't run three good lines last year and kept expecting the youngest guys on the team to figure out how to consistently play at the NHL level in a weird covid season all by themselves and get benched so Quinn would ride his top six more

Really though I think most coaches lean towards playing their top six more heavily and not a top nine, which I think makes it difficult to try to bring these young players we should be expecting to be the future of the team into a position where they can actually start being relied on

I think the main issue is they play the fourth line too much. You can play the top six a typical amount but then give L3 more ice time by severely cutting down the L4 ice time.

 

[Synergy27]

I think the main issue is they play the fourth line too much. You can play the top six a typical amount but then give L3 more ice time by severely cutting down the L4 ice time.

Was it “they” or was it “Quinn”. Will be interesting to see. It’d be one thing if the team had a really effective fourth line, but they had nothing close to that. Really maddening usage from my perspective.

And I agree FWIW. Don’t necessarily need to see KK or VK with Panarin as long as they’re getting reasonable ice time period.

 

[Inferno]

Well, this. We've seen it so many times. We get a PP when the top PP guys have already been on the ice for a minute and we still stick with PP1. Look at Montreal this season, where Burrows said this about the PP:



When the PP struggled for a month did Quinn change anything? No. He changed everything at even strength 17 times a game, but the PP was unchanged for over a month despite it struggling immensely. We never started PP2, even when the PP1 guys had been on the ice when the penalty was drawn. We never tried something new. No, we just had to wait a f***ing month for things to magically fall into place just to hear Quinn say "Well, we fixed it".

I am not saying PP2 should start 50% of our powerplays but what went on with the Rangers this season was just bad in so many ways.

Montreal's power play was worse than ours every year since 2017 2018.

The year before David Quinn was hired.

Maybe the Habs should learn a thing or two about power plays from us, not the other way around.

 

[LOFIN]

Montreal's power play was worse than ours every year since 2017 2018.

The year before David Quinn was hired.

Maybe the Habs should learn a thing or two about power plays from us, not the other way around.

I don't know about you, but having our PP being #14 in the league is a f***ing travesty considering what talent we can put out there. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Machinehead]

To be fair, our powerplay was close to the bottom and then it was near the top ever since Zibanejad woke up one day and said "oh yeah, I'm an NHL player and know how to shoot!"

 

[jay from jersey]

To be fair, our powerplay was close to the bottom and then it was near the top ever since Zibanejad woke up one day and said "oh yeah, I'm an NHL player and know how to shoot!"

Yes, once he put more rubber on the net even if he wasn’t scoring on the shot it was her eating secondary chances off rebounds/deflections etc.

On a side note, I think Kakko is going to be solid offensively, but it was a little concerning to see how explosive/ dangerous Hughes was offensively last year compared to kakko

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Montreal's power play was worse than ours every year since 2017 2018.

The year before David Quinn was hired.

Maybe the Habs should learn a thing or two about power plays from us, not the other way around.

That's a bit of a short-sighted way to look at what I said. This isn't about Montreal's PP being better than ours, it's about their PP improving after they took a more balanced approach.

 

[CLW]

Yes, once he put more rubber on the net even if he wasn’t scoring on the shot it was her eating secondary chances off rebounds/deflections etc.

On a side note, I think Kakko is going to be solid offensively, but it was a little concerning to see how explosive/ dangerous Hughes was offensively last year compared to kakko

Laf looked clunky to start the season too. Looks like the Rangers emphasize power over agility in their training for the kids, at least at this stage. We'll see how that turns out. I'd like to see the training focus on explosivity and agility (I think that aligns more with who he is as a player) rather than trying to make Kaapo into a pure power forward. He did mention that the focus for the off season would be on "power and skating".

 

[Inferno]

That's a bit of a short-sighted way to look at what I said. This isn't about Montreal's PP being better than ours, it's about their PP improving after they took a more balanced approach.

Our power play also improved doing the exact same thing and having Mika not suck.

Ours improved way more than theirs did.

 

[Inferno]

To be fair, our powerplay was close to the bottom and then it was near the top ever since Zibanejad woke up one day and said "oh yeah, I'm an NHL player and know how to shoot!"

What he said.