Dreger: JVR not expected back with the leafs

[Vancouver Canucks]

Don't really want him and don't see us paying what it would take.

Fair enough.

 

[Connor McConnor]

JVR and Bozak are obvious cap losses, not sure why anyone trying to justify the Leafs keeping him he's not worth 6m for a streaky goal scorer who doesn't play D at all.

 

[Boutette]

Three season in a leafs uniform going up and down from the marlies. I know kapanen. He hasn’t even scored 10 goals yet and leafs fans are expecting him to produce JVR numbers? Cmon lets be honest here. I know he’s an amazing prospect, but to expect JVR production right out the gate is a bit silly one would think.

No leaf fan expects Kapanen or Johnsson or Leivo to individually replace JvR's 30-30 offence. But its not just JvR whose likely leaving. Its likely JvR, Komarov and Martin. Guess what? Those three together produce about 45 goals and get about 45 assists between them. Its reasonable to expect K, J & L to produce 45 goals and get 45 assists between them over the year. Martin is an offensive black hole whose been permanently benched and so is Komarov, and both Kapanen and Johnsson are can fill in for Komarov's defense while producing much better offense. Together they can replace the outgoing offense for 1/3 of the cap. You can pretend there's no NHL hard cap all you want, but its there, its a zero sum game, and expensive one dimensional players who want $$$$$$$ retirement contracts aren't really affordable if you want your team to succeed under the current NHL CBA.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

JVR and Bozak are obvious cap losses, not sure why anyone trying to justify the Leafs keeping him he's not worth 6m for a streaky goal scorer who doesn't play D at all.

We all know he's gone it's just some of us realize what we are losing while others think his 30+ goals can easily be replaced and that's simply wrong, more than that it's a lie.

 

[MacDaddy Version 4]

Marleau is a better mentor to the kids than JVR. And well...we may not have an exact replacment but what we do have is a slew talented prospects that need a shot to develop into their own.

Thanks for the mems, JVR!

Gino Reda on TSN said, you don't replace players, you adapt. And we have seen it. Players come up, step into the lineup and prove their worth. All three can leave, others will fill the holes and the team will just keep rolling along.

 

[FuelTheJet]

JVR and Bozak are obvious cap losses, not sure why anyone trying to justify the Leafs keeping him he's not worth 6m for a streaky goal scorer who doesn't play D at all.

He's 20th for goals over the last 5 years, he's one of the most consistent goal scorer's in the NHL.

He's not worth 6 mil because he doesn't fit where the Leafs are at currently, he's easily worth 6 mil as a UFA.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Funny reading people say the Leafs chose Marleau over JVR. That's simply not true. Even without Marleau it would have been very hard to keep JVR for 6,7 or 8 years. He's a good player but not a guy I give the max years to. He puts up points but that's it. I'm not downplaying scoring at all here it's just that that's all he'll give you. No defense, no penalty killing etc.

 

[WTFMAN99]

JVR is basically used as an offensive / PP specialist. He gets heavy OZ starts and lots of PP time but his 5v5 minutes are not high right now, Babcock doesn't trust him and his body of work defensively doesn't suggest he deserves trust.

 

[Matt24]

JVR is basically used as an offensive / PP specialist. He gets heavy OZ starts and lots of PP time but his 5v5 minutes are not high right now, Babcock doesn't trust him and his body of work defensively doesn't suggest he deserves trust.

This is what it boils down to. Babcock's never warmed to him completely. He's 10th among Leafs forwards in ice time. Bozak being nearly a full minute ahead of him per game despite being attached to JVR's hip, not killing penalties, and not having his offensive ability says it all.

 

[Subbanned]

This is one of those smart, hard (at least in terms of public scrutiny) decisions that this Toronto management team is frustratingly good at. Whereas a lot of teams would be suckered into trying to sign him to the contract he is looking for, almost all recent examples of similarly aged UFAs indicate that he will be on a downwards trend. Plus following this guy since his Philly days he is lazy AF defensively and this never seemed to change in Toronto, it seemed more magnified when he had to play first line with Kessel because they had nothing else. Babcock smart to put him on the third line, feed him prime PP minutes (where he is admittedly at his best in front of the net) and then shelter the heck out of him at ES with follow defensive disaster Bozak.

Marleau isn't a long term commitment so no they didnt really "choose him over JVR", JVR on a 6 to 7 year deal at even slightly-below market value starts to handcuff the Leafs. And he will trend downwards guaranteed. Someone like Kapanen may only be good for 20 goals or so compared to JVR's 30 (and that number goes down, not up, in coming years) but count a handful of goals prevented by being not-awful defensively and voila, not a big difference. Leafs will continue to grow because their best players in Matthews, Marner and Nylander will continue to get better.

This is like the most basic team management logic that we all talk about here for our own team but I feel like when you see another team do it the instinct on HFB is to go all hurr durr bash mode.

Wish MB had this kind of common sense TBH. Btw, this is no to say that JVR "sucks", just that his timeline of a few years of decent production as a PP specialist/sheltered complementary player is MUCH better suited to a team with a prime-age to declining prime-age core.

 

[WTFMAN99]

This is what it boils down to. Babcock's never warmed to him completely. He's 10th among Leafs forwards in ice time. Bozak being nearly a full minute ahead of him per game despite being attached to JVR's hip, not killing penalties, and not having his offensive ability says it all.

You can come out ahead with this useage of JVR though, by limiting his 5v5 ice time and giving him OZ starts when you do, those 30 goals will get you ahead on the GF-GA ratio. Playing him more just basically lets things equal out like they did when JVR-Bozak-Kessel was out there for 20 mins a night. Some nights you did well, others you got burned bad.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

That Marleau mistake is already costing Toronto after one year. Imagine how bad it's going to be by the end of the three

 

[nbwingsfan]

JVR and Bozak are obvious cap losses, not sure why anyone trying to justify the Leafs keeping him he's not worth 6m for a streaky goal scorer who doesn't play D at all.

I still feel the Leafs best option is to keep JVR and trade one of Marner/Nylander for a top pairing D.

You keep more or less the same offense while getting drastically better on D.

JVR + OEL > Nylander (for example)

 

[Ciao]

^ I think the Leafs will stick with the plan by not trading their young players.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

That Marleau mistake is already costing Toronto after one year. Imagine how bad it's going to be by the end of the three

It really isn't lol

 

[varano]

They should've traded him to get something out of him, before he departs.

Thats not really how Lou does things and we would want him for the playoffs.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Thats not really how Lou does things and we would want him for the playoffs.

Yeah, offseason would be the best time to trade.

 

[Liferleafer]

That Marleau mistake is already costing Toronto after one year. Imagine how bad it's going to be by the end of the three

Signing Marleau and overpaying JVR as a free agent have zero coralation by the way.

 

[varano]

That Marleau mistake is already costing Toronto after one year. Imagine how bad it's going to be by the end of the three

I know that whopping three years must be a back breaker for us. How ever will we function? Move the team to Albequerque as long as they agree to cover our massive losses on Marleau.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

JVR has so many options. Really fun seeing where he lands this summer. I think his game will not age like others. For instance if I am a GM, I would be more comfortable signing JVR long term than Tavares, who's game suddenly looks slower. JVR makes his living 5-10 ft from the goal. His skills are less likely to decline. Funny thing here is more people want JT than JVR. For me it's the opposite. If the Isles lost JT, I would be more than happy getting JVR at a lower cap hit and from the perspective his game is going to age better than JT's.

 

[al secord]

You know you can do both at the same time right? To not get any assets for him and to just let him walk is incredibly dumb.

Only on Hfboards could it be "incredibly dumb" to hold onto your 30+ goal scoring vet for a playoff run. Insightful as always.

 

[al secord]

They should've traded him to get something out of him, before he departs.

Stanley Cup would be a great trade off.

 

[FMichael]

If I were JVR - I'd seriously consider staying in TO...Of course that would mean a small raise at best...Then again I had heard Babs is not his #1 fan.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

If I were JVR - I'd seriously consider staying in TO...Of course that would mean a small raise at best...Then again I had heard Babs is not his #1 fan.

Money is also important for players like JVR. This won't be an easy decision.

 

[tony d]

I think I'd rather JVR than Marleau, myself. If the Leafs were planning on not signing him they could have traded him at the deadline in a package for a good defenseman.