JVR-Bozak-Marner or JVR-Bozak-Brown ?

[Minus Mitch]

Let's be honest guys. Marner has been a defensive black hole this year. It wasn't Bozak or JVR who lost the puck behind their net vs New York. It wasn't Bozak or JVR who swept low in his own end with a swipe at the puck knocking it into his own net. It isn't Bozak or JVR who plays to deep to get to their point man. Mitch just is that good defensively. Or without the puck for that matter.

Maybe it's Bozak who gets the short end of the stick. He's had defensively weak wingers since day one. Remember they tried Kadri with JVR. They tried Kadri with Kessel. Until they put a defensively strong Komarov with Kadri he was a defensive hole.

 

[ULF_55]

Hyman Matthews Nylander
JVR Kadri Marner
Marleau Bozak Brown
Martin Fehr Komarov

 

[Trapper]

Hyman Matthews Nylander
JVR Kadri Marner
Marleau Bozak Brown
Martin Fehr Komarov

Which one do you want to be Babcock's matchup line? I see pain.

 

[Gallagbi]

Which one do you want to be Babcock's matchup line? I see pain.

Top one that isn't bolded. Strength on strength.

 

[Budsfan]

It was pretty obvious that Marner was struggling and a little shake up was required, he was hit pretty hard a few games ago and maybe he hasn't completely recovered, as a smallish player, the wear and tear on his body would be a lot more pronounced, than with a bigger player.
I think he will get a little less minutes on the fourth line and it may help him recover and too he has Martin with Moore/Fehr to run a little more protection for him, Marner will be back.

 

[Trapper]

Top one that isn't bolded. Strength on strength.

Unless you don't have final change and a line is there to be exploited.

 

[thewave]

Unless you don't have final change and a line is there to be exploited.

You win the prize!

 

[ShaneFalco]

Thread is just sad when you look at it.

Team is 4-1-0

Though it's early, it's top of the East and we are piling on 2 of our players.

I seriously think "fans" would boo Bozak and JVR if they hoisted the Cup here in a few months.

Right. Why discuss deficiencies on a discussion board. All is just fine. We should wait until they start losing before making any comments

 

[Gallagbi]

Unless you don't have final change and a line is there to be exploited.

Isnt that always the concern with line matching? It looks like he balanced out the lines, so that should be less of a concern.

 

[ULF_55]

Which one do you want to be Babcock's matchup line? I see pain.

I don't see a problem with the lines.

Matthews is 1st. scoring line. (40 and 22 goal scorers)
Kadri is 2nd scoring line. (29 and 32 goal scorers)
Bozak is 3rd. scoring line. (27 and 20 goal scorers)
Fehr is the energy line.

Teams will be chasing Leafs not Leafs trying to play the trap.

I don't think anyone needs rationale for Matthews line.
Kadri is good defensively, but is good offensively, so why limit his line?
Marleau and Brown are good defensively, and can provide some finish for the passer.
Fehr/Moore are a role playing line, and will be PK for the most part along with Hyman.

 

[Mess]

I don't see a problem with the lines.

Matthews is 1st. scoring line. (40 and 22 goal scorers)
Kadri is 2nd scoring line. (29 and 32 goal scorers)
Bozak is 3rd. scoring line. (27 and 20 goal scorers)
Fehr is the energy line.

Teams will be chasing Leafs not Leafs trying to play the trap.

YTD: ES 5v5 goal scoring by lines

Matthews line ..... 7 goals
Kadri line ............... 3 goals
Bozak line ........... 3 goals
Moore line .......... 3 goals

At even strength the JVR-Bozak-Marner line has produced the same amount of goals as the Moore/Fehr centred 4th line in much more TOI/g. However their combined -15 +/- is the real problem.

Babcock has really nothing to lose here by flipping Marner and Brown 3rd and 4th line RWs because goal scoring by both lines = same.

 

[Minus Mitch]

I don't see a problem with the lines.

Matthews is 1st. scoring line. (40 and 22 goal scorers)
Kadri is 2nd scoring line. (29 and 32 goal scorers)
Bozak is 3rd. scoring line. (27 and 20 goal scorers)
Fehr is the energy line.

Teams will be chasing Leafs not Leafs trying to play the trap.

I don't think anyone needs rationale for Matthews line.
Kadri is good defensively, but is good offensively, so why limit his line?
Marleau and Brown are good defensively, and can provide some finish for the passer.
Fehr/Moore are a role playing line, and will be PK for the most part along with Hyman.

Only if Kadri is the center piece of the offense. He's never worked well with offensive players and needs a Komarov to play defense. His best NHL season by far was with the teams two hardest working players in Komarov and Brown.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I think you proved me point, when you think they should be the best 3rd line in the NHL. Yep, the they should be better than the other 30 teams 3rd line, cause you said so? I just don't understand the this reasoning they should have this anointment by the Leaf masses.

Not because I said so, based on their collective skill set and potential. They are all top 6 forwards on virtually every other team in the league.

 

[Pookie]

Right. Why discuss deficiencies on a discussion board. All is just fine. We should wait until they start losing before making any comments

We could also sit back and do nothing while the fan base tries to run players out of town by overplaying the negatives and discounting the positives.

 

[ULF_55]

YTD: ES 5v5 goal scoring by lines

Matthews line ..... 7 goals
Kadri line ............... 3 goals
Bozak line ........... 3 goals
Moore line .......... 3 goals

At even strength the JVR-Bozak-Marner line has produced the same amount of goals as the Moore/Fehr centred 4th line in much more TOI/g. However their combined -15 +/- is the real problem.

Babcock has really nothing to lose here by flipping Marner and Brown 3rd and 4th line RWs because goal scoring by both lines = same.

I agree I don't think there is a net negative by moving Marner. It isn't like he's been leading the line to success, and Bozak and van Riemsdyk have history but you could move any of them and not hurt the team. Brown scored 20 goals last year, so it isn't like he's a stone handed winger.

 

[ULF_55]

Only if Kadri is the center piece of the offense. He's never worked well with offensive players and needs a Komarov to play defense. His best NHL season by far was with the teams two hardest working players in Komarov and Brown.

Kadri has more experience and confidence now.
I don't see an issue putting Kadri with offensively strong, defensively suspect players.

 

[RLF]

I don't see a problem with the lines.

Matthews is 1st. scoring line. (40 and 22 goal scorers)
Kadri is 2nd scoring line. (29 and 32 goal scorers)
Bozak is 3rd. scoring line. (27 and 20 goal scorers)
Fehr is the energy line.

Teams will be chasing Leafs not Leafs trying to play the trap.

I don't think anyone needs rationale for Matthews line.
Kadri is good defensively, but is good offensively, so why limit his line?
Marleau and Brown are good defensively, and can provide some finish for the passer.
Fehr/Moore are a role playing line, and will be PK for the most part along with Hyman.

Maybe, of course that is if we can get it out of our own end.lol

 

[ULF_55]

Maybe, of course that is if we can get it out of our own end.lol

What line do you think would have that problem?

 

[Trapper]

I don't see a problem with the lines.

Matthews is 1st. scoring line. (40 and 22 goal scorers)
Kadri is 2nd scoring line. (29 and 32 goal scorers)
Bozak is 3rd. scoring line. (27 and 20 goal scorers)
Fehr is the energy line.

Teams will be chasing Leafs not Leafs trying to play the trap.

I don't think anyone needs rationale for Matthews line.
Kadri is good defensively, but is good offensively, so why limit his line?
Marleau and Brown are good defensively, and can provide some finish for the passer.
Fehr/Moore are a role playing line, and will be PK for the most part along with Hyman.

The NHL doesn't always work that way. Because you scored x amount of goals on one line combination doesn't mean you will score x amount and more on another. Roles and who you face (or reasons you are used in certain situations must also change). I imagine it wouldn't be long before Kadri was added to the whipping boy if/when that line was posting the big minus.
If Babcock wants to configure that way go for it, but I really doubt he will and there is good reason for it. I don't see anyone able to really play a cycle game on the Kadri/Marner/JVR line. And that's part of the problem. You need to rush but you also need to be strong on the wall and down low. Every other line has someone who can, this could be part of the reason for the added struggle to the Bozak line.

 

[ULF_55]

The NHL doesn't always work that way. Because you scored x amount of goals on one line combination doesn't mean you will score x amount and more on another. Roles and who you face (or reasons you are used in certain situations must also change). I imagine it wouldn't be long before Kadri was added to the whipping boy if/when that line was posting the big minus.
If Babcock wants to configure that way go for it, but I really doubt he will and there is good reason for it. I don't see anyone able to really play a cycle game on the Kadri/Marner/JVR line. And that's part of the problem. You need to rush but you also need to be strong on the wall and down low. Every other line has someone who can, this could be part of the reason for the added struggle to the Bozak line.

I'm not expecting Marleau to get 27 goals, but Brown scored 20 in less than ideal situations.
However, less scoring and more defense limits other teams ability to take advantage, especially when you come up against better opposition defenses.
Marleau will play defense, as will Brown.

 

[RLF]

What line do you think would have that problem?

A little tongue in cheek comment, but in reality Kadri can only do so much defensively. Marner and JVR are not going to help much there in their own end. Although Marleau/Brown are solid defensively, Brown has actually lost a few assignments in his own end this year that have lead to goals. He has even slammed his stick afterward knowing he lost his man. Bozak is just average defensively, so could be some issues with support to even get the puck up to the wingers to move it out. I don't think those lines are bad, I am just not sure if creating holes on more than one line is better than 3 soldi lines and only one line with poor defence.

 

[Trapper]

I'm not expecting Marleau to get 27 goals, but Brown scored 20 in less than ideal situations.
However, less scoring and more defense limits other teams ability to take advantage, especially when you come up against better opposition defenses.
Marleau will play defense, as will Brown.

I can buy the Bozak/Brown/Marleau line but at this stage of the game I think the Kadri/Marner/JVR line suffers hard times.

 

[Mess]

I agree I don't think there is a net negative by moving Marner. It isn't like he's been leading the line to success, and Bozak and van Riemsdyk have history but you could move any of them and not hurt the team. Brown scored 20 goals last year, so it isn't like he's a stone handed winger.

Brown 20 goals vs Marner 19 goals last year supports that theory.

Brown in fact is likely the better goal scorer and finisher and Marner is a pass first player and his shot is not going intimidate many goalies.

We all know Brown is better defensively than Marner, as its a reason Babs has him as a key PKer, so that can only help the defensively challenged JVR and Bozak also.

Wonder what happens if the JVR -- Bozak -- Brown line works?

 

[Trapper]

Brown 20 goals vs Marner 19 goals last year supports that theory.

Brown in fact is likely the better goal scorer and finisher and Marner is a pass first player and his shot is not going intimidate many goalies.

We all know Brown is better defensively than Marner, as its a reason Babs has him as a key PKer, so that can only help the defensively challenged JVR and Bozak also.

Wonder what happens if the JVR -- Bozak -- Brown line works?

What happens if the Martin/Moore/Marner line looks good and the Bozak line remains in the negative?

 

[ULF_55]

What happens if the Martin/Moore/Marner line looks good and the Bozak line remains in the negative?

That would be great.
Would make Lou more comfortable moving van Riemsdyk and Bozak in a package deal.

Leivo-Aaltonen-Kapanen