Well I mean there is a lot of bitching about that trio, people don't realize what we have in that line
JVR-Bozak-Marner or JVR-Bozak-Brown ?
- Thread starter WTFMAN99
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Well I mean there is a lot of bitching about that trio, people don't realize what we have in that line
Polaris1010
Registered User
Lamoreillo almost traded Bozak and a 2nd round draft choice for Flipula and Boyle. Tampa was trading two centers to Toronto. One would think a center was going the other way.
Bobcock tried his best to lure Jumbo Joe here, as stated in the first game in the hockey TV broadcast, which meant the same Bozak was probably gone again.
If the people, the fans, don't realize what we have in that line, neither does the GM nor coach.
I do not understand you guys. This is coming straight from the top, and there is no acknowledgement that this even exists.
and I wouldn't have had a problem with either move, why? because it would have made the team better, especially the Thornton move.
But there are people that want to trade Bozak and JVR for picks and prospects just because they have 1 year left on their deals.
If you have a team that can make a run you don't sell players and this team sure as hell looks like it can, so creating holes is pointless.
I am all for upgrading the team, I am NOT for creating holes.
Its not the 1 year. They are arguably the 2 least hard working and Bozak is not a #2 center on an offensive line on a good team. Bozak disappears to often, quits during battles, his skating is one of the poorest on the team. JVR works when he wants too, is very soft. Neither of them have any consistent determination to win one on one battles. Marner's line lacks any hardworking forchecker unlike the other 3 lines. Not sure why Babcock put them out in the last minute of regulation vs the Blackhawks, was pretty surprised.
firstemperor
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I've advocated for it in the off-season, but your right, it doesn't make much sense after a full training camp and certainly, the real reality is- we're riding out JVR and Bozak to end the year and seeing where that takes us. Makes no sense to trade a ~30-30 winger when we're probably a darkhorse contender, at minimum, already this year.
We can debate all we want about whether someone internally can replace JVR- but that's all theoretical and the reality is, team chemistry, line chemistry, are all real factors you don't want to interrupt at this point. It was a trade that would have made sense in the off-season, not really now.
Though I will say if the offer is too enticing to pass up, you give up either.
They must be the most skilled players on the team to be so lazy and uninterested and still score all those points every season and earn those long term deals....
ACC1224
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Sure they do. One way play by two of them and a skinny young kid forced to do the rest.
Gary Nylund
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Didn't he say that he'd be willing to take less if it was an 8 year deal? I'd say that's pretty much the case for any player and I want no part of that myself, would be shocked if we signed JVR for 7 years never mind 8.
It's not an easy decision either way. It's not just Bozak and JVR, there's Komarov too. I totally agree this team can make a run but we should be in that position for the next decade and if that means we'll never sell of pending UFA's, we may be in a position say 5-6 years from now when we won't be able to put together a decent supporting cast around our stars because we no longer have cheap talent coming up through the system. Nobody wants to "create holes" but if the decision has been made that we can't afford to resign these guys, those holes are coming anyway so it's a question of do you get some assets back that will come in very handy when other holes have to be filled in the years to come? Or is it worth it to forego that opportunity to give us a better shot this season? To say that we might make a run so we're not trading these guys period is too rigid for my way of thinking though. These are tough decisions and I don't think it's clear cut either way and possibly a middle ground is optimal, something like trade JVR and let the other two walk?
Yes, the chemistry is a factor too and I agree that the off-season would have been the ideal time for a trade. It's still not too late though, there's plenty of time left before the playoffs to adjust to whatever happens. We could make a trade in say January and still be just fine. How enticing is the offer - that's what it all comes down to doesn't it? It's an interesting situation and I don't think anyone can say with certainty what the right path to take is and in the end, it might be a really tough/close decision either way.
Harsh, but there's some truth there. Replace JVR with Leivo/Kapanen and we'll score a few less goals almost certainly but there should be positive effects as well.
why cant people understand that picks and prospects can be traded for players we want? What did hamonic get traded for? a package JVR likely brings back on his own. imagine if we trade JVR and Bozak for picks prospects we could make a hell of a package for a top4 D and likely still keep some futures for our selves.
Put it this way what team will be willing to trade a top4 D? a team that is a bottom feeder, what are they going to do with JVR? nothing. What are they going to do with 1st,2nd and prospect? use it to rebuild or retool
Gary Nylund
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Good question. I'm not in the camp that flatly rejects the idea of trading JVR for futures, but flipping those futures for someone who can help us win now is also possible and IMO completely refutes the argument that we can't trade JVR because we can "go on a run".
thewave
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If he is sticking out the season, he should be sticking it with the team. Nobody wants to see a 1st+ gone for nothing.
JVR and Bozak aren't going anywhere, Leafs are looking to add, not subtract. They are looking to put together a package of futures for a RHD on a 1 or two year deal. The question is, who might be available?
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Yup, Babs needs to reel in the skinny kid but only a little cause you still want him to be creative and dangerous.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
thewave
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Hard to say, Bozak has been trade attempted twice already. I have heard of a JVR attempt as well. Keep in mind that if we get picks back it doesn't mean we can't use those to get someone else as well. Futures are flexibility.
thewave
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Its weird, he is so good until that time where the pass shoot decision is made. I like his game a lot and he moves over the ice like nobody else save for Nylander.
JVR can bring in futures to be used in this RHD though. that line at the moment is costing us, not games yet, but they are the only 3 forwards who are minus players so far and the eye test shows how they are hemmed in a lot of the time. replacing JVR with a player who is better defensively along with Bozak and Marner will help that line not give up as many goals along with the Dman we got with the package for JVR
Guys c'mon, there is no trade for a defenseman for JVR. If there was, it would have happened. My biggest concern is that Marner was good defensively last season, by far the best one on the line, and he seems to be slipping in that regard. Probably frustrated for being the only one who tries defensively. The only deal that makes sense for JVR is a lateral move. The skinny has been that he wants to play on the East Coast only, and that his favourite team is the Rangers. How about a deal for Rick Nash? The Rangers can resign him and he'll instantly make that line better. In fact, he might be good enough to shake things up overall.
Nash-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown/Hyman
Marleau-Bozak-Marner
Martin-Moore/Fehr-Brown/Hyman
Both are UFA's after this season and the Rangers would resign JVR. Might even be able to squeeze a pick or two out of the Rangers because they are buying youth in this deal. As for those who say that the Leafs lose this deal, I don't think they do because they can't resign JVR regardless. Also, a slight possibility that Nash resigns a 1 year deal, if the money is right.
Nash-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown/Hyman
Marleau-Bozak-Marner
Martin-Moore/Fehr-Brown/Hyman
Both are UFA's after this season and the Rangers would resign JVR. Might even be able to squeeze a pick or two out of the Rangers because they are buying youth in this deal. As for those who say that the Leafs lose this deal, I don't think they do because they can't resign JVR regardless. Also, a slight possibility that Nash resigns a 1 year deal, if the money is right.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Why would we want to exchange JVR for Nash? That won't do anything for us.
We're not going to trade JVR for another rental at the same position, who is nowadays a worse player, just because there might be a slightly bigger chance of resigning the player, which we shouldn't be interested in.
We're not going to trade JVR for another rental at the same position, who is nowadays a worse player, just because there might be a slightly bigger chance of resigning the player, which we shouldn't be interested in.
ULF_55
Moderator
I'd be happy with a 1st. from a contender, so that's a pick in the 20s.
Komarov/Marleau-Bozak-Marner
Marleau/Komarov-Kadri-Brown
I dunno guys, I think Nash would be a defensive and physical upgrade, while not losing on the experience and offensive factors. I just can't see the Leafs trading a player like JVR to a contender, when the Leafs ARE contenders. Why make a potential playoff opponent stronger? Just for another first round pick that the Leafs don't need? Get your heads out of rebuild mode, this is cup talk we're at.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Given Nash is a UFA, I might be interested in trading for him at the TDL if Rangers are not in playoff contention.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
We should be able to get more than that though.
If we want to go for cup, we keep JVR. We don't downgrade. Nash isn't as good offensively, and his even strength defense isn't great either. He's a good PKer, and that's not what we need.
Getting draft picks isn't about rebuilding. Going forward, we will need to get a lot of effect from a limited amount of cap hit. The best way to get that is through ELCs and second contracts, to replace players that are not irreplaceable but will start to be costly. To get good guys coming up to play for us with ELCs and second contracts, we will need to continuously replenish our prospect pool.
It's not about rebuilding. It's about sustaining contender status for as long as our core can be competitive.
