Player Discussion Juuso Valimaki

[Johnny Hoxville]

Young D always struggle. I expect him to get the Hanifin treatment as he likely struggles for a few more seasons. He’ll be offered in a million cringe deals by our fanbase.

He’ll eventually figure it out and be a top pair guy though

Great skating, good vision and passing, probably our most talented offensive dman, good size, all needs to do is learn to slow the game down.

 

[Kahvi]

Great skating, good vision and passing

That's exactly how he looked like in the two Liiga games I watched last season.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

If this is true he needs to be in Stockton playing 20+ minutes/night.

 

[TheHudlinator]

If this is true he needs to be in Stockton playing 20+ minutes/night.

Yup totally

 

[Some Other Flame]

Even though Valimaki is still a promising prospect, it's insane that Treliving bent over and gave him 1.55M for two years when he nickeled and dimed every other RFA.

But $1.125 million of his $1.55 million cap hit would disappear if he was assigned to Stockton (he’d count for just $425,000 on the NHL cap while in the minors), which could give the Flames a ton of cap flexibility.

Such bad management.

 

[Kahvi]

Team Finland coach and GM were watching that Boston game in Calgary to see Välimäki play. Almost feels like that was the only reason he played.

 

[Nanuuk]

If this is true he needs to be in Stockton playing 20+ minutes/night.

I don't think so. Stockton is a development squad that is doing very well so far this season. Better than the Flames in fact. Do you bump someone off the squad that really needs that development? Send him to the ECHL to bump some other poor sob off their team?

Vali is too good for the AHL and not good enough (yet) to take Zadorov's spot. And being here is probably one of the reason Zadorov is play better because he knows if he doesn't Vali will take his spot.

Meanwhile Vali benefits from practising with the team waiting for his chance. Injuries haven't cropped up yet, but they will. We, knock on wood, haven't experienced any Covid cases. Edmonton just announced Ceci has been put on their protocol list so their D is a shambles right now.

 

[TheHudlinator]

I don't think so. Stockton is a development squad that is doing very well so far this season. Better than the Flames in fact. Do you bump someone off the squad that really needs that development? Send him to the ECHL to bump some other poor sob off their team?

Vali is too good for the AHL and not good enough (yet) to take Zadorov's spot. And being here is probably one of the reason Zadorov is play better because he knows if he doesn't Vali will take his spot.

Meanwhile Vali benefits from practising with the team waiting for his chance. Injuries haven't cropped up yet, but they will. We, knock on wood, haven't experienced any Covid cases. Edmonton just announced Ceci has been put on their protocol list so their D is a shambles right now.

The only way for Valimaki to get significantly better is playing serious minutes especially after missing an entire pro season just 2 years ago. If he isn't playing he should be sent down. There are guys like Welinski, Desmoni that don't have a real future in Calgary.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I don't think so. Stockton is a development squad that is doing very well so far this season. Better than the Flames in fact. Do you bump someone off the squad that really needs that development? Send him to the ECHL to bump some other poor sob off their team?

Vali is too good for the AHL and not good enough (yet) to take Zadorov's spot. And being here is probably one of the reason Zadorov is play better because he knows if he doesn't Vali will take his spot.

Meanwhile Vali benefits from practising with the team waiting for his chance. Injuries haven't cropped up yet, but they will. We, knock on wood, haven't experienced any Covid cases. Edmonton just announced Ceci has been put on their protocol list so their D is a shambles right now.

Yes, you bump a future #7 defenseman or AHL journeyman to the ECHL to help your more valuable asset.

Practicing is all well and good but it doesn't replace valuable playing minutes, especially for a young defenseman. In Valimaki's case, we saw he was completely gassed 3/4 the way through last season; practices don't replace that level of conditioning he needs for a full 82 game schedule.

 

[Nanuuk]

And if Zad stinks the joint up? You can't be yo-yo'ing Valimaki back and forth and you certainly don't want to play Stone on his off-side.

It is a conundrum for sure, but sitting a lot last year didn't hurt Kylington.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I'd absolutely yo-yo him back and forth. He'll be game ready, at least.

 

[TheHudlinator]

And if Zad stinks the joint up? You can't be yo-yo'ing Valimaki back and forth and you certainly don't want to play Stone on his off-side.

It is a conundrum for sure, but sitting a lot last year didn't hurt Kylington.

He had been stinking up anyway Vali ain't getting in. Call him up later if you need to but playing hockey isn't going to hurt Valimaki at learning to play hockey.

How do we know it didn't hurt Kylington? What if he would have worked out more of his mistakes and had even more confidence this year? Just because Kylington is good now doesn't mean he wouldn't have been better.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

And if Zad stinks the joint up? You can't be yo-yo'ing Valimaki back and forth and you certainly don't want to play Stone on his off-side.

It is a conundrum for sure, but sitting a lot last year didn't hurt Kylington.

Kylington was a polished pro on the verge of breaking out when Peters and Ward lost all brain cells in their body and started sitting him because for some stupid reason they thought Andersson was the alpha on that pair (when it was the opposite)

His breakout was just a matter of playing with Hamonic or Tanev, but the team's misguided infatuation with Hanifin cost him a chance.

Valimaki is a raw kid who missed a lot of developmental time (CHL hockey, injury, covid, and now scratches) and needs a ton of icetime to get to where he should be. His skating could use work, his reads are inconsistent, and his offensive game, while an upgrade on Zadorov etc, isn't elite enough to carry him overall.

 

[Nanuuk]

The Zadorov/Gudbranson pairing has been pretty good this year. We're in first place and the name of the game is to win.

As Sutter has said and has Tre has said you ice the squad that gives you the best chance to win every night. Playing young guys just because they're young doesn't always give you that chance.

Kylington is better now because Sutter told him what needed to be worked on and he went out and did it. I think the same process will work on Vali as well.

 

[Mobiandi]

He should be playing. We're virtually guaranteed to make the playoffs in my view. Would rather see him make mistakes now and munch popcorn in the post-season than rot for the rest of the season.

We got lucky with Kylington because his hockey IQ is supplemented by his otherworldly skating abilities. Valimaki's mobility may never be the same so he needs time to adapt to the new state of his body.

Stockton or Calgary it doesn't matter. Play him or trade him

 

[Mazatt]

I don't think so. Stockton is a development squad that is doing very well so far this season. Better than the Flames in fact. Do you bump someone off the squad that really needs that development? Send him to the ECHL to bump some other poor sob off their team?

Coincidentally the Flames called up D Greg Moro w/ Gravel out with injury. Feels like there was a perfect spot there for someone like Valimaki to get sent down without displacing anyone on the roster

 

[TheHudlinator]

The Zadorov/Gudbranson pairing has been pretty good this year. We're in first place and the name of the game is to win.

As Sutter has said and has Tre has said you ice the squad that gives you the best chance to win every night. Playing young guys just because they're young doesn't always give you that chance.

Kylington is better now because Sutter told him what needed to be worked on and he went out and did it. I think the same process will work on Vali as well.

Zadorov has been pretty consistently the worst defenseman and arguably the worst player on the team with bad turnovers/miss reads/ and bad penalties but our stellar goaltending has really helped him out, that's not to say he hadn't a good game here or there but overall it hasn'tbeen good. Kylington is the same player he was 2 years ago just everyone who was ahead of him left and Sutter had no other option but to play him. Playing Zadorov over Valimaki is the same stupid idea as Nesterov over Kylington last year but if we are going to do it Valimaki needs to go play top minutes in the ahl because just sitting for weeks doesn't help anyone get better.

 

[beakerboy]

I’m on the send him down and play him top minutes in the ahl. Especially if they monitor his progress closely and explain exactly what they want him to work on.

Badorov gets a pass for all his bone headed plays so they’re not sitting him. Just deal with the occasional game of stone or gudbranson playing on their off aide

 

[Yepthatsme]

3 of our 4 best D-man are 24 or freshly 25 and yet people still don’t think we know how to develop a D-man. Valimaki proved two years ago after his injury already happened that he’s too good for the AHL, playing in leagues you’ve outgrown just let’s more bad habits get into your game. Practicing and working against NHL players is exactly what he needs, watching film and practicing is still beneficial for development even if he isn’t getting games in.

 

[Nanuuk]

At about the 6:30 mark of this interview, Sutter gives a little insight to playing the right way.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

At about the 6:30 mark of this interview, Sutter gives a little insight to playing the right way.

It honestly really seems to me that Darryl is directly taking a shot at Valimaki here. Who else do we have that can't get up to speed and loses playing time because of it?

And honestly, with the way Darryl has influenced our team I have no problem with him pushing Valimaki against a wall and seeing if Valimaki can unlock that next gear. To me whether he plays in the AHL top-pair is meaningless, we know he's too good for that league and it's not like he'll be way happier in Stockton making 1/10th of the money and playing in a league he's been too good for for 2 years. Darryl has been a phenomenal influence on our team and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and play hardball with Juuso until he plays the right way. If Valimaki can't play faster every shift then I have no problem with Darryl scratching him early in the season. Either Valimaki gets up to speed and Darryl has no choice to play him or Valimaki doesn't play. It's not like Zadorov is out here costing us games. If it's playoff time it's a different story, if we start to lose a lot different story, but lets give Darryl the benefit of the doubt for now given what he's done to this team so far

 

[Nanuuk]

Yes. And it is my hope that sometime later this year or next year, Jusso will make the grade. If he doesn't get 'up to speed', he'll be gone because he is on a way contract.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Whoomp there it is


That 1.55M aav for this year and next is absurd

 

[Mazatt]

Love it, but also, like, why didn't this happen earlier? Was Calgary not aware of Valimaki being waiver exempt, or was Treliving in Sutter's ear about playing Valimaki and he finally said that he isn't getting in for a while?

 

[Rubi]

Love it, but also, like, why didn't this happen earlier? Was Calgary not aware of Valimaki being waiver exempt, or was Treliving in Sutter's ear about playing Valimaki and he finally said that he isn't getting in for a while?

I have the feeling that whoever is in charge of knowing the waiver rules... f***ed up and they didnt become aware of it until recently.