Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - So comman Edition

[PaulD]

There's definitely been a lack of effort - but you could say the same about 90% of the team this year.

So I don't think it's a perception as much as it's amplified specifically more towards Drouin.

But Galchenyuk in this case is a good example...

I found that he's completely turned it around this year, his compete level, especially in his own zone is much better and much more consistent.

It seems he's finally starting to 'click' in that area...

I think there will be a similar ''click' with Drouin...at least I hope.

I've at least seen some encouraging signs lately.

Yay. Encouraging signs.

any wonder this team aint worth watching

 

[PaulD]

I'm more disappointed with the achievements of Jonathan Drouin than I am with the failure of the Habs to make the playoffs.

I expected pretty much both.

 

[habsfan909]

There's definitely been a lack of effort - but you could say the same about 90% of the team this year.

So I don't think it's a perception as much as it's amplified specifically more towards Drouin.

But Galchenyuk in this case is a good example...

I found that he's completely turned it around this year, his compete level, especially in his own zone is much better and much more consistent.

It seems he's finally starting to 'click' in that area...

I think there will be a similar ''click' with Drouin...at least I hope.

I've at least seen some encouraging signs lately.

Problem with that is Drouin had a **** attitude with Tampa as well. Completely entitled. Stevie Y wanted to move him so he showcased him and then roped in Bergevin with the promise of a Quebec born "star" ... Drouin may turn out but it was not a good trade. The only way it would have been a good trade is if Drouin was a centre which I guess Marc was praying for.

 

[417]

Yay. Encouraging signs.

any wonder this team aint worth watching

In a season like we've had...I find solace in small victories if only because I don't enjoy always posting negativity around here.

The sky ain't always falling for rveryeve.

 

[PaulD]

do you guys every shut up?

Yes. But then the bar gets lowered.... again.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

This Galchenyuk vs Drouin thingy is one of the weirdest fan driven storylines I've ever seen.

Maybe it's because the management said loud and clear even before the season starts that Galchenyuk IS NOT a center.. Everything they blame Galchenyuk as a Center last season, Drouin is doing it this season. He's just as bad defensively but didn't produced like Galchenyuk did last season.

You know what the weirdest thing here? It almost feel like DD and Drouin as first Center are not hockey decisions.. but more like PR decisions because each time.. we had better options. Each time there was a double standards from coaching and management.

Why did DD, playing as a 1st C, get an extension when he was outplayed, outproduced by Eller who played on the third line. Why did we give DD an extension when we just drafted Galchenyuk to be our next top 6 C.. and we already have Plekanec and Eller in the line up.

Why did we called Drouin a C even before seeing him play C for even 1 game. Why did Drouin stayed at C for the whole season despite being worse than Galchenyuk last season as a C in almost every areas? Even if somehow Drouin improves his game as a C because he got to play 70 games straight as C.. how come Galchenyuk never got that opportunity? Let's be honest, we can say that the team and Galchenyuk had success with Galchenyuk playing center. Galchenyuk's productions shows it. The team record record shows it. The chemistry between Galchenyuk and Pacioretty shows it. None of that can be apply for Drouin. Team sucks with Drouin as a C, Drouin's production sucks as a C.. and he has no chemistry whatsoever with the captain..

Call it storyline driven by fans if you want... but sometimes it feels like the management doesn't take the best hockey decisions and there's a clear double standards.

 

[417]

Problem with that is Drouin had a **** attitude with Tampa as well. Completely entitled. Stevie Y wanted to move him so he showcased him and then roped in Bergevin with the promise of a Quebec born "star" ... Drouin may turn out but it was not a good trade. The only way it would have been a good trade is if Drouin was a centre which I guess Marc was praying for.

I can't personally speak for his attitude...I haven't seen anything that indicates to me that he has a bad attitude.

I also don't personally feel as though it was a bad trade, I'm not prepared to reach that conclusion today.

Perhaps one day I'll also agree with you or maybe not.

 

[417]

Maybe it's because the management said lot and clear even before the season starts that Galchenyuk IS NOT a center.. Everything they blame Galchenyuk as a Center last season, Drouin is doing it this season. He's just as bad defensively but didn't produced like Galchenyuk did last season.

You know what the weirdest thing here? It almost feel like DD and Drouin as first Center are not hockey decisions.. but more like PR decisions because each time.. we had better options. Each time there was a double standards from coaching and management.

Why did DD, playing as a 1st C, get an extension when he was outplayed, outproduced by Eller who played on the third line. Why did we give DD an extension when we just drafted Galchenyuk to be our next top 6 C.. and we already have Plekanec and Eller in the line up.

Why did we called Drouin a C even before seeing him play C for even 1 game. Why did Drouin stayed at C for the whole season despite being worse than Galchenyuk last season as a C in almost every areas? Even if somehow Drouin improves his game as a C because he got to play 70 games straight as C.. how come Galchenyuk never got that opportunity? Let's be honest, we can say that the team and Galchenyuk had success with Galchenyuk playing center. Galchenyuk's productions shows it. The team record record shows it. The chemistry between Galchenyuk and Pacioretty shows it. None of that can be apply for Drouin. Team sucks with Drouin as a C, Drouin's production sucks as a C.. and he has no chemistry whatsoever with the captain..

Call it storyline driven by fans if you want... but sometimes it feels like the management doesn't take the best hockey decisions and there's a clear double standards.

You raise alot of good questions...many of which I share.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to take it out on Drouin....those questions are for management to answer.

I like Drouin and I always have because I think he's a very talented player. I feel the same about Galchenyuk.

Why both aren't currently playing center is weird to me...but again, that's for Julien/Bergevin to answer.

I'm not going to resent the player because they ****ed up.

And 27 doesn't have anything to do with 92 really...the only thing they have in common is they are 2 talented young players that the coaching staff and management decided to put in terrible positions and situations.

 

[PaulD]

In a season like we've had...I find solace in small victories if only because I don't enjoy always posting negativity around here.

The sky ain't always falling for rveryeve.

No, just low down in the Atlantic division.

Beautiful skies around the league. Watched a good one last night.

I get it though. You have to look hard for positives because you have stuck yourself with watching a very bad low in talent, politically driven hockey team. While some of us flick the channel watch the teams battle for play offs and/or prepare for Stanley Cup chase.

My apologies. Positive about the Habs.......Umm..... The Canadiens back up goalie made a lot of saves last night.

 

[PaulD]

I can't personally speak for his attitude...I haven't seen anything that indicates to me that he has a bad attitude.

I also don't personally feel as though it was a bad trade, I'm not prepared to reach that conclusion today.

Perhaps one day I'll also agree with you or maybe not.

He just aint that good.

 

[417]

No, just low down in the Atlantic division.

Beautiful skies around the league. Watched a good one last night.

I get it though. You have to look hard for positives because you have stuck yourself with watching a very bad low in talent hockey team. Whiloe some of us watch the teams pursuing greatness.

My apologies. Umm..... The Canadiens back up goalie made a lot of saves last night.

You can choose to follow whatever team you follow...

I'm a Habs fan and only a Habs fan, I don't really know another way to be a hockey fan. Doesn't mean I'm not frustrated by the situation.

 

[PaulD]

You can choose to follow whatever team you follow...

I'm a Habs fan and only a Habs fan, I don't really know another way to be a hockey fan. Doesn't mean I'm not frustrated by the situation.

No worries. I get ya. Must be tough for you. Me. Im a hockey fan first. Hab fan second. So "the sky aint falling"as you put it.

Drouin. Come on. The guy is striving to hit 40 pts. First line forwards wait till they are about 35 years old for those numbers.

Been said many time about Drouin....... " is a good hockey player, he is not a great hockey player"

 

[LaP]

My belief always has been before 26 it's too soon to write a skilled kid off. The closer you get to 26 the rarer it is to see a kid figure it out but it happens. It's not so rare to see a kid making huge progress at 24 or 25. Wheeler was 25 when he got his first 50 points season (after 45, 38 and 44 points seasons) . He has been one of the best player of the league the last 7 years. The Bruins did not get that much when they traded him. I mean Peverley when healthy was a good player but not close to Wheeler imo and he was something like 4 or 5 years older.

I don't give up on Drouin and AG personally. I mean Galchenyuk will be 24 for most of next season and Drouin will be 23. They are both too much skilled to give up already.

 

[Drew4u]

My belief always has been before 26 it's too soon to write a skilled kid off. The closer you get to 26 the rarer it is to see a kid figure it out but it happens. It's not so rare to see a kid makes huge progress at 24 or 25. Wheeler was 25 when he got his first 50 points season (after 45, 38 and 44 points seasons) . He has been one of the best player of the league the last 7 years. The Bruins did not get that much when they traded him. I mean Peverley when healthy was a good player but not close to Wheeler imo and he was something like 4 or 5 years older.

I don't give up on Drouin and AG personally. I mean Galchenyuk will be 24 for most of next season. They are both too much skilled to give up already.

The stats show that the majority of forwards peak (offensively) at 23-24 years. Drouin and AG have been in the league for 4+ years. They aren't going to magically turn into 70+ point players. They are secondary players on true contenders.

 

[PaulD]

There are 19, 20 , 21 years all over the league dominating. The NHL is younger than ever.

I would not be impressed with Drouin if this was his first season. Let along his fourth.

 

[habsfan909]

I can't personally speak for his attitude...I haven't seen anything that indicates to me that he has a bad attitude.

I also don't personally feel as though it was a bad trade, I'm not prepared to reach that conclusion today.

Perhaps one day I'll also agree with you or maybe not.

When he was demoted in Tampa and responded by bailing and refusing... that to me is an entitlement problem.
I hope Drouin succeeds next year but I'm afraid he needs a top centre to do so and I don't see us getting that. I'm not sure he will become who we want because I don't think Marc will be able to get us a centre.

 

[habsfan909]

No worries. I get ya. Must be tough for you. Me. Im a hockey fan first. Hab fan second. So "the sky aint falling"as you put it.

Drouin. Come on. The guy is striving to hit 40 pts. First line forwards wait till they are about 35 years old for those numbers.

Been said many time about Drouin....... " is a good hockey player, he is not a great hockey player"

Drouin has excellent skill and will always appear to be the most talented when playing in a 3 on 3 or power play situation. A lot of those skills are negligible in 5 on 5. Or he just really needs a star centre he can complement who will take the attention and let him do his thing.

 

[LaP]

The stats show that the majority of forwards peak (offensively) at 23-24 years. Drouin and AG have been in the league for 4+ years. They aren't going to magically turn into 70+ point players. They are secondary players on true contenders.

It's not as clear cut as you pretend it to be. Most forwards effectively peak at 23-24. But some peak at 24-25-26 and others at 21-22-23. You act like AG's and Drouin's best season would be 30 points. AG scored 30 goals and did 56 points. Drouin did 53 points last year.

Yes it's unlikely they become more than 55 points "secondary" players but Marchand at their age was exactly that a 55 points secondary player. When Marchard was 24 his best season was 55 points and he had only one 50 points season. Marchand had his first 60 points season at 27 years old.

BTW i'm saying it's too soon to give up which doesn't equal to me saying they will become stars in the league. We all know AG has off ice issues. Those are surely without any doubt affecting his level of play. It's not impossible that he gets past those in the upcoming seasons and improve. As for Drouin he'll be 23 next season. Like you said stats show forwards peak at 23-24.

 

[PaulD]

Drouin has excellent skill and will always appear to be the most talented when playing in a 3 on 3 or power play situation. A lot of those skills are negligible in 5 on 5. Or he just really needs a star centre he can complement who will take the attention and let him do his thing.

Yes "needs" is a key word that comes up all the time when talking about Drouin.

Tbay had everything he "needed" and got rid of him anyway.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

He'e been very good at winning faceoffs lately. there's that.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

You raise alot of good questions...many of which I share.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to take it out on Drouin....those questions are for management to answer.

I like Drouin and I always have because I think he's a very talented player. I feel the same about Galchenyuk.

Why both aren't currently playing center is weird to me...but again, that's for Julien/Bergevin to answer.

I'm not going to resent the player because they ****ed up.

You know what. I was a BIG fan of Drouin. I was very excited when we traded for him even if it was for Sergachev but I gotta say I didn't know that much about him. I don't like him now because I know him better. I don't get excited because just because he's better on the dot lately.

In his first 20 games... I put all the blames on the management and coaching staff on Drouin's poor performance for forcing him to play C where he's clearly not effective.. but after 30-35 games.. I started to realize the problem was more than just the new position. Drouin lacks work ethic and effort. Even the french media called him out for that. So it's not like we resent Drouin because of Bergevin, I think we all gave Drouin his chances and he's the one that f***ed up. And the fact that the management keeps him at playing a position where Galchenyuk has a lot more success in the past makes you wonder if they forced him there for PR reasons and pretend that Bergevin did his job by bringing a top C last summer.

 

[habsfan909]

Yes "needs" is a key word that comes up all the time when talking about Drouin.

Tbay had everything he "needed" and got rid of him anyway.

Well of course they did. Tampa Bay had everything Drouin needed but Tampa Bay didn't need Drouin...

 

[PaulD]

Well of course they did. Tampa Bay had everything Drouin needed but Tampa Bay didn't need Drouin...

Dumped his ass. Kept 12 others.

 

[Sorinth]

I don't know...its hard to understand where you're coming from.

I don't blame players for the ineptitude of the front office for having placed them in less than ideal situations.

The handling of Galchenyuk since he was drafted and the handling of Drouin since being acquired have very little to do with themselves.

Their handling are an example of one of Bergevin many flaws, such as the blatant favoritism he has for some players/people. We saw the same thing with Desharnais, and back then people often brought up Galchenyuk or Eller vs Desharnais and Bergevin's defenders would say the same type of things you are saying.

Again...I don't see the reasoning why one gets propped up just to justify tearing the other down.

I'm a fan of both players and believe that they are part of the solution and not the problem on this team.

When someone says Galchenyuk is terrible defensively and therefore shouldn't play C and someone else responds Drouin is as bad/worse and is playing C. That response isn't about tearing down Drouin to prop up Galchenyuk. It's about showing that the OP's argument is hypocritical and therefore BS excuse to hide the real reason Galchenyuk isn't used at C. It's not an attack on Drouin, it's an attack on a bad argument.

I don't need to see Drouin fail to justify criticizing the GM nor do I need to exaggerate everything Galchenyuk does to justify the same thing either.

But that's just me I guess

My opinion is that Bergevin is incompetent. I don't need to see the team struggle to have that opinion, but the team struggling is evidence that my opinion is correct. In Drouin's case it shows Bergevin's failure in evaluating both Drouin and the team. His inability to evaluate talented players and the team are some of Bergevin's major flaws. I'm not out here hoping Drouin fails so that I can post about how I'm right about Bergevin being incompetent, but when it happens I will certainly use it as evidence. And you do the exact same thing.

You've criticized Plekanec for what 5+ years now, sure you didn't need to see Plekanec struggle offensively to have that opinion but you brought it up at every opportunity once he did struggle to produce.

 

[cphabs]

not relevant to this thread about Drouin not the trade

Agreed, and I apologize.