Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - So comman Edition

[groovejuice]

Agreed, and I apologize.

It was kind of you to apologize but how is the Drouin thread off limits to the trade that brought him here? It's completely relevant. Just carry on with your fine posting.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Well of course they did. Tampa Bay had everything Drouin needed but Tampa Bay didn't need Drouin...

Molson is comparing us to Tampa last year yet we took a player who was the odd man out on their roster to play the a top role on our team in a position he’s never played before.

 

[417]

When he was demoted in Tampa and responded by bailing and refusing... that to me is an entitlement problem.
I hope Drouin succeeds next year but I'm afraid he needs a top centre to do so and I don't see us getting that. I'm not sure he will become who we want because I don't think Marc will be able to get us a centre.

Entitlement?

Maybe...but more immaturity, which he still is IMO.

You hope the light goes off for him, like I find it has with Galchenyuk this year.

 

[habsfan909]

Molson is comparing us to Tampa last year yet we took a player who was the odd man out on their roster to play the a top role on our team in a position he’s never played before.

Ya well Molson also thinks that Bergevin knows how to build a winner so what do you expect I guess.

 

[habsfan909]

Entitlement?

Maybe...but more immaturity, which he still is IMO.

You hope the light goes off for him, like I find it has with Galchenyuk this year.

Ya well we're lucky Drouin is a local kid because if he wasn't then he would be getting LIT UP in the french media for playing this poorly. And then he would be mentally ruined.
Just like so many have and frankly I don't know how Chucky survived it.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

It may be small, but Drouin has quietly been amazing at face offs lately. Also putting fourth a much better effort out there. Hopefully the production follows.

 

[sandviper]

It may be small, but Drouin has quietly been amazing at face offs lately. Also putting fourth a much better effort out there. Hopefully the production follows.

I’ve bagged on Drouin all season, deservingly so as well IMO, but he has been playing a lot better now and seems much more engaged now.

Oh course, the true test will be to see if this carries to next year and maintain consistency.

 

[417]

Their handling are an example of one of Bergevin many flaws, such as the blatant favoritism he has for some players/people. We saw the same thing with Desharnais, and back then people often brought up Galchenyuk or Eller vs Desharnais and Bergevin's defenders would say the same type of things you are saying.

GM's and coaches showing favoritism...

Clearly something exclusive to the Montreal Canadiens.

As for what "Bergevin defenders" were saying...I brought up Galchenyuk + Eller vs Plekanec and Desharnais for years.

So miss me with that.

When someone says Galchenyuk is terrible defensively and therefore shouldn't play C and someone else responds Drouin is as bad/worse and is playing C. That response isn't about tearing down Drouin to prop up Galchenyuk. It's about showing that the OP's argument is hypocritical and therefore BS excuse to hide the real reason Galchenyuk isn't used at C. It's not an attack on Drouin, it's an attack on a bad argument.

Except that's not how it comes off...

My opinion is that Bergevin is incompetent. I don't need to see the team struggle to have that opinion, but the team struggling is evidence that my opinion is correct. In Drouin's case it shows Bergevin's failure in evaluating both Drouin and the team. His inability to evaluate talented players and the team are some of Bergevin's major flaws. I'm not out here hoping Drouin fails so that I can post about how I'm right about Bergevin being incompetent, but when it happens I will certainly use it as evidence. And you do the exact same thing.

You've criticized Plekanec for what 5+ years now, sure you didn't need to see Plekanec struggle offensively to have that opinion but you brought it up at every opportunity once he did struggle to produce.

Firstly...I criticized Plekanec's usage, not necessarily him as a player, it was never his fault this team saw him as bigger than he was.

That was a knock on the coaching staff and management and I ALWAYS made it a point to present it this way.

 

[JuicyHam]

I’ve bagged on Drouin all season, deservingly so as well IMO, but he has been playing a lot better now and seems much more engaged now.

Oh course, the true test will be to see if this carries to next year and maintain consistency.

It's almost feels like if you put a young player with talent in a consistent position they start to learn and get better with time. Hmm.

Don't get me wrong I'm happy that drouin is slowly showing improvements but you can't help but wonder if they put galchenyuk in the same position and kept him there through all of the mistakes and sore spots a la drouin he might be a really great player. Especially if we would have done it when he was 20 or 21.

I'm not trying to overrate galchenyuk or say that drouin looks incredible but there is a sizable improvement in drouins play from the start of the year and that's because he's slowly learning to play a position and they let him play through the growing pains. Something the organization never let galchenyuk do. Just seems like a waste.

 

[Deebs]

I’ve bagged on Drouin all season, deservingly so as well IMO, but he has been playing a lot better now and seems much more engaged now.

Oh course, the true test will be to see if this carries to next year and maintain consistency.

Absolutely. After putting him with two bulldogs like Gallagher & Byron, how could he not work harder than he did earlier in the year. It's a good sign that he's responded well from the change.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

I’ve bagged on Drouin all season, deservingly so as well IMO, but he has been playing a lot better now and seems much more engaged now.

Oh course, the true test will be to see if this carries to next year and maintain consistency.

It might be because he played with nagging minor injuries throughout the season and now feels more healthy and feels confident in engaging physically with players. I know from experience, I played some full contact hockey with a banged up shoulder and let me tell you, no matter how much you want it, it effects your play. If I remember Drouin has a foot injury or wrist or something.

 

[417]

It's almost feels like if you put a young player with talent in a consistent position they start to learn and get better with time. Hmm.

Don't get me wrong I'm happy that drouin is slowly showing improvements but you can't help but wonder if they put galchenyuk in the same position and kept him there through all of the mistakes and sore spots a la drouin he might be a really great player. Especially if we would have done it when he was 20 or 21.

I'm not trying to overrate galchenyuk or say that drouin looks incredible but there is a sizable improvement in drouins play from the start of the year and that's because he's slowly learning to play a position and they let him play through the growing pains. Something the organization never let galchenyuk do. Just seems like a waste.

Agreed 100% - they should of done that.

All the more reason why not to repeat the same mistake with Jonathan Drouin, right?

 

[PaulD]

GM's and coaches showing favoritism...

Clearly something exclusive to the Montreal Canadiens.

As for what "Bergevin defenders" were saying...I brought up Galchenyuk + Eller vs Plekanec and Desharnais for years.

So miss me with that.


Except that's not how it comes off...



Firstly...I criticized Plekanec's usage, not necessarily him as a player, it was never his fault this team saw him as bigger than he was.

That was a knock on the coaching staff and management and I ALWAYS made it a point to present it this way.

Certainly. He is what he is. A washed up, soft has been, playing way to high in the line up due to favoritism. Laughed out loud when Pleks and his agent used the teams ignorance to get paid like he was not washed up. Then predictably proceeded to play even worse for two more years. High fives all around.

 

[417]

Laughed out loud how Pleks and his agent used the teams ignorance to get paid like he was worth everything management said he was. Then played ever worse.

Plekanec and his agent let his coaches do the talking for him...why would a player who the coach uses more than any other center, accept anything less than being the teams highest paid center?

 

[PaulD]

Plekanec and his agent let his coaches do the talking for him...why would a player who the coach uses more than any other center, accept anything less than being the teams highest paid center?

Thats what I just said.

He used the teams ignorance to his advantage. Nicely done. $$

 

[417]

Thats what I just said.

He used the teams ignorance to his advantage. Nicely done. $$

sorry was just doubling down on what you said.

Meanwhile, based on how the Leafs currently use him, if they wanted to, they could bring back Plekanec at 1-1.5M?

Meanwhile you got Habs fans who want him back at double that salary and think it would be a wise idea.

Anyways...not going to go further into that.

 

[PaulD]

Agreed 100% - they should of done that.

All the more reason why not to repeat the same mistake with Jonathan Drouin, right?

Yes, this expansion team is learning.

 

[JuicyHam]

Agreed 100% - they should of done that.

All the more reason why not to repeat the same mistake with Jonathan Drouin, right?

Absolutely. It's been a full season and he'll have the off-season to train as a center knowing what he needs to work on. He seems like a smart kid so I'm not worried about him. I've accepted it.

 

[PaulD]

sorry was just doubling down on what you said.

Meanwhile, based on how the Leafs currently use him, if they wanted to, they could bring back Plekanec at 1-1.5M?

Meanwhile you got Habs fans who want him back at double that salary and think it would be a wise idea.

Anyways...not going to go further into that.

Agreed.

Mike Babcock put Pleks where he belongs. Showing just how over paid and over played he was in Montreal.

Bringing Pleks back to Montreal at any price would be a stupid move. Which makes it highly likely.

 

[417]

Yes, this expansion team is learning. So shrewd.

I guess I wasn't negative enough.

 

[PaulD]

I guess I wasn't negative enough.

No just a tad naive and overly optimistic.

 

[417]

No just a tad naive.

what part of my post was naive?

The part where I said Galchenyuk's development since he was drafted should serve as a cautionary tale for how they're handling Drouin?

lol ok I guess....I mean, I didn't say it will serve as a cautionary tale, I said it SHOULD.

 

[Wats]

Firstly...I criticized Plekanec's usage, not necessarily him as a player, it was never his fault this team saw him as bigger than he was.

That was a knock on the coaching staff and management and I ALWAYS made it a point to present it this way.

That's how all players are criticized. Desharnais to Shaw to Alzner. He was the best C on the team and got played the most. Management's incompetence got him 6M.

 

[417]

That's how all players are criticized. Desharnais to Shaw to Alzner. He was the best C on the team and got played the most. Management's incompetence got him 6M.

Not quite actually...Desharnais on knocked for his size, being soft, being the coache's pet, etc...

Shaw and Alzner get criticized for the price paid to acquire them.

I very rarely knocked Plekanec for what he did on the ice, I never called him soft...I criticized his usage mostly.

Also, Plekanec stopped being the Habs 'best' center awhile ago, just took folks even longer to realize it.

So no, it's not quite the same.

 

[Wats]

Not quite actually...Desharnais on knocked for his size, being soft, being the coache's pet, etc...

Shaw and Alzner get criticized for the price paid to acquire them.

I very rarely knocked Plekanec for what he did on the ice, I never called him soft...I criticized his usage mostly.

So no, it's not quite the same.

Disagree how these are so different. Are you really going to suggest criticism you give Plekanec for coaches usage differs from all the people's criticism of Desharnais' usage over guys like Galchenyuk/Eller etc?