Proposal: Joel Edmundson to Oilers

[Habs Halifax]

Even if Eddy comes with one more year, I'm not sure he returns a 1st. I think fans are trying to devalue him too much when he can and will help a contender in the stay at home steady eddy type on D. However, he's not trending as well as Chiarot did last year so I don't expect a 1st rounder. He's a good add for the playoffs and someone like Kulak got a 2nd rounder. Eddy is better than Kulak so I expect more than just a 2nd.

My mind is on the 2nd and B+ prospects type return if traded at full cap hit. Manson type return?

If the Habs consider 50% retention, his $1.75M cap hit for next season will be very attractive and in this case, the Habs will push for a 1st. Not sure if this is Gorton/Hughes approach or not and they are only going to consider that at the deadline (not now).

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

If I'm Hughes, I'm looking for a 1st with 25% retention at most.


Playing with 4-5 rookies on D on any given night with no goaltending and 1 line while handling all the hard matchups and defensive zone starts. What do you expect?

At 5 on 5 he has 165 offensive zone starts to 180 defensive zone starts (47.8 OZFO%), that is a very small gap for a bad team that is going to start in the defensive end more often.

I know MTL fans want a small fortune for Edmundson, but every Oiler fan I know has him at the very bottom of their wishlist of rumored available D.

 

[Habs Halifax]

At 5 on 5 he has 165 offensive zone starts to 180 defensive zone starts (47.8 OZFO%), that is a very small gap for a bad team that is going to start in the defensive end more often.

I know MTL fans want a small fortune for Edmundson, but every Oiler fan I know has him at the very bottom of their wishlist of rumored available D.

Oilers have to figure out their cap space first. Cause they don't have much room to do anything. It's very possible that the Oilers and Habs are talking Eddy trade but with other parts to free up the Oilers cap so they can make bigger moves at the deadline. Eddy would become a 2nd or 3rd piece added in the end, not the prime piece.

But yeah, 1st things first. Oilers cap space issues. That needs to be unblocked if they are doing anything.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I wasn't responding to the thread in general, just what I would ask for the player.

Finding a defenseman to help Edmonton seems almost as rough as finding someone to help Montreal. Mediocre goaltending doesn't help either. However, Edmonton also has the forwards to keep hold of the puck and not have constant pressure against them too. Connor McDavid.

If Kulak can do it, Edmundson can definitely do it considering the large gap between them.

There's also a difference between stabilizing a defensive pair with a rookie and stabilizing a defensive pair with a rookie who 99% of the time plays against the Ovechkins and McDavids of the world.

Part of the problem is that Kulak can't really do it. He's fine in his role on our 3rd pair, as he was on Montreal, but the 2nd pair was an issue a couple of weeks ago. As odd as it is to say, it might not be as big of an issue as we thought then. It's only a few games of course so we don't want to jump to conclusions, but Broberg is flourishing with increased ice time on the 2nd pair. We'll need to see how he does in the next few weeks of course, but the Oilers "desperation mode" seems to have been more in the fanbase and the media than anything. Holland still should do something to improve the blueline if it is out there, but he doesn't have to move on the first guy available, or on depth guys. It's about improving the top end now.

I'd retain half on Edmunston to get higher first. Same as renting caproom next year. Deal him to fringe playoff team for protected first. If that team gets to third round or more we get 2nd in '24 Draft.

I really don't think you get a first unless you retain 50%, and even that is likely just a late 1st. Teams deal firsts for players who they feel are going to make an impact. Not 3rd pair guys.

 

[Canadienna]

Well Edmundson doesn't provide the same intangibles that made Chiarot so appealing. His only advantage is the extra year of term, but that can be offset if Montreal doesn't retain 50%.

Not to mention teams tend to learn from others recent mistakes or successes. The Manson trade should have set the market on Chiarot and similarly should be setting the market on Edmundson. Hell I would say Manson is a member ch closer style player than Chiarot too. Something like Carter Savoie + a 2nd seems way closer than a 1st

Eddy's play since I made that post can't have helped his value, and I never claimed he would get a 1st.

My point is he's the kind of player that will inevitably be overpaid for by some soft desperate team at the deadline.

Maybe that means he gets a 2nd + b prospect, or maybe he somehow does land a 1st.

Also, Eddy's an old school cross checking machine. He's not Ben Chiarot, but he definitely brings that element.

In my opinion, he's playing the worst hockey of his Habs career so far this year. Which you could blame on playing with rookies, except more often than not he's the one who needs bailing out on his line.

 

[pth2]

Given their cap issues, I don't see EDM as a good destination for Edmundson.

I also figure that much like with Lehkonen last season, the Habs can really set their price and are fine with not pulling the trigger if there's nothing worthwhile on the table, since he can return next season and we're fine with that. Monahan though... we'd need to take the best offer on the table (though I think if we don't get a single top 100 pick, we might as well keep him just for mentorship for the kids)

I'd be going for a late 1st for Edmundson and I'd be open to retaining 50% even if it's for more than just this season.... Hughes has indicated he didn't want to retain over more than a year, but I think if it can get us a first, it's worth it to be flexible. That could include taking back a contract - maybe even one that isn't expiring (not a Vlasic type, but a Foegele type.,, why not?)

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Oilers have to figure out their cap space first. Cause they don't have much room to do anything. It's very possible that the Oilers and Habs are talking Eddy trade but with other parts to free up the Oilers cap so they can make bigger moves at the deadline. Eddy would become a 2nd or 3rd piece added in the end, not the prime piece.

But yeah, 1st things first. Oilers cap space issues. That needs to be unblocked if they are doing anything.

I think the Edmundson to Edmonton ship has sailed. The Oilers are assuredly after a better player who is a definitive upgrade and they’re confident can handle himself in a mid pairing role.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think the Edmundson to Edmonton ship has sailed. The Oilers are assuredly after a better player who is a definitive upgrade and they’re confident can handle himself in a mid pairing role.

I believe the Oilers are after more than just one move and they want Edmundson but as a 2nd or 3rd piece. Problem is they have major cap space issues. They also are trying to buy lower than our asking price well in advance of the deadline. I don't buy what all Oilers fans are saying about Edmundson as a general narrative. He would help their D.

The Eddy to the Oilers rumor to me seems like it's an attempt for the Habs to get the futures we want but to help the Oilers cap space at the same time. The issue here is Pulujarvi is the logical one to move out to save cap and they do have two LTIR contracts that are preventing them from accruing cap space. What is Puljujarvi's trade market value? Not sure but I personally would not have plans with him on the Habs as a long term solution. Willing to take a flyer on him but we are after futures more than a underperforming 24 year old who can't produce this year even with McDavid. I don't imagine he has any more value than Armia has.

 

[pth2]

..... What is Puljujarvi's trade market value? Not sure but I personally would not have plans with him on the Habs as a long term solution. Willing to take a flyer on him but we are after futures more than a underperforming 24 year old who can't produce this year even with McDavid. I don't imagine he has any more value than Armia has.

Armia has 2 more years on his deal, though, which is an issue for someone underperforming.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I believe the Oilers are after more than just one move and they want Edmundson but as a 2nd or 3rd piece. Problem is they have major cap space issues. They also are trying to buy lower than our asking price well in advance of the deadline. I don't buy what all Oilers fans are saying about Edmundson as a general narrative. He would help their D.

The Eddy to the Oilers rumor to me seems like it's an attempt for the Habs to get the futures we want but to help the Oilers cap space at the same time. The issue here is Pulujarvi is the logical one to move out to save cap and they do have two LTIR contracts that are preventing them from accruing cap space. What is Puljujarvi's trade market value? Not sure but I personally would not have plans with him on the Habs as a long term solution. Willing to take a flyer on him but we are after futures more than a underperforming 24 year old who can't produce this year even with McDavid. I don't imagine he has any more value than Armia has.

I’m sure the Oilers would love to make 2-3 moves but have to be realistic about their cap situation. It’s already been explained in one of these threads that moving LTIR deals doesn’t do anything for them cap wise and they really can’t accrue any cap space. Because they have such little options to create cap space they don‘t have much margin for error and so they need to make sure the move they do make has the most significant impact and the area of greatest need is a sure fire mid pairing defender, based on Edmundson’s play he would be a huge gamble in that role. Even if he was meant to be a second or third move, what are they going to do? Acquire him just so they can put Kulak, who’s formed a great third pairing with Barrie, in the press box with his deal that he just signed? It doesn’t make sense. Plus they have Broberg who’s been playing very well and Desharnais who‘s been impressive in a very short span and looks to have some of the same qualities as Edmundson. The Oilers have a logjam on the lower end of their defensive roster, their need is someone who can reliably play above these players, they don’t need to add to the logjam.

At this point Puljujarvi is either going to be giving away or he’s going to be a throw in to balance cap in a deal for a defender. If you want to know what Armia’s value is look at the Kassian to Arizona deal, at 3.4M with 2 more years left you’re looking at paying a 2nd and a 3rd to get rid of that contract.

 

[Scintillating10]

Part of the problem is that Kulak can't really do it. He's fine in his role on our 3rd pair, as he was on Montreal, but the 2nd pair was an issue a couple of weeks ago. As odd as it is to say, it might not be as big of an issue as we thought then. It's only a few games of course so we don't want to jump to conclusions, but Broberg is flourishing with increased ice time on the 2nd pair. We'll need to see how he does in the next few weeks of course, but the Oilers "desperation mode" seems to have been more in the fanbase and the media than anything. Holland still should do something to improve the blueline if it is out there, but he doesn't have to move on the first guy available, or on depth guys. It's about improving the top end now.


I really don't think you get a first unless you retain 50%, and even that is likely just a late 1st. Teams deal firsts for players who they feel are going to make an impact. Not 3rd pair guys.

I wouldn't deal Eddy like that. He is solid heavy Defenseman. We got way more for Chiarot

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

No one wants him, maybe for a 2nd.

you guys paid us a 2nd for a worst player last deadline...

 

[Chose]

I can imagine that the Oilers would rather have Chychrun, or Karlsson, but the reality is they don't have the cap, nor the resources to trade for one of them. Also, lots of teams will be after those.

What exactly is left as an option on the trading block, affordable both capwise and with available tradable resources ?

This is exactly why I see an Edmundson to Edmonton trade pending...
He is not perfect. But he is not exactly a third pairing guy either (since when do you see 5thD playing 20 minutes a night ?)
Add to that his playoff experience (and cup ring), his leadership, his rugged play, and 50% rentention for 2 years below 2M$, and you get a desirable defensemen for a relatively affordable deal for 2 runs...

Edmundson has been on record saying MTL is not in a rebuild anymore. I don't think he likes it to lose every night. Seeing all the young LHD growing is definatly telling him he is on the way out, especially reading all the rumors. Do you think it would affect his play this season ? I do...

He was one of the reasons the Habs pushed to the finals two years ago. He is 29. He's not done.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I wouldn't deal Eddy like that. He is solid heavy Defenseman. We got way more for Chiarot

Of course you got more for Chairot. People thought he could be a 2/3 defenseman on a contender. Edmundson is heavy...but based on his play this year I have a hard time believing that GM's are lining up for him for any more than a depth role.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

NHL Blocked Shot Leaders 2022-23 | StatMuse

Alec Martinez blocked the most shots in 2022-23, with 244 blocks.

www.statmuse.com

This right here is why I'm confident the Habs will get back a solid return for Edmundson

20 more blocked shots in 10 less games than anyone on the Oilers

 

[SwedishFire]

you guys paid us a 2nd for a worst player last deadline...

Hes a 4th on our team.
Can have something to do about he feels well needed? Because he is.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’m sure the Oilers would love to make 2-3 moves but have to be realistic about their cap situation. It’s already been explained in one of these threads that moving LTIR deals doesn’t do anything for them cap wise and they really can’t accrue any cap space. Because they have such little options to create cap space they don‘t have much margin for error and so they need to make sure the move they do make has the most significant impact and the area of greatest need is a sure fire mid pairing defender, based on Edmundson’s play he would be a huge gamble in that role. Even if he was meant to be a second or third move, what are they going to do? Acquire him just so they can put Kulak, who’s formed a great third pairing with Barrie, in the press box with his deal that he just signed? It doesn’t make sense. Plus they have Broberg who’s been playing very well and Desharnais who‘s been impressive in a very short span and looks to have some of the same qualities as Edmundson. The Oilers have a logjam on the lower end of their defensive roster, their need is someone who can reliably play above these players, they don’t need to add to the logjam.

At this point Puljujarvi is either going to be giving away or he’s going to be a throw in to balance cap in a deal for a defender. If you want to know what Armia’s value is look at the Kassian to Arizona deal, at 3.4M with 2 more years left you’re looking at paying a 2nd and a 3rd to get rid of that contract.

OK, so some fans say moving the LTIR contracts don't matter and this is considered fact? Come on man.. fans just don't know the cap that well.

What about Weber on LTIR before the Habs last year and then Price on LTIR after the season started. You would think we would not be able to accrue cap space right? False. Price's contract is higher so we did accrue cap space.

How does this apply to the Oilers? It's not the same yes but I do believe that the Oilers could possibly accrue cap space if a package of Puljuarvi, Smith, and Klefbom are traded ASAP while Kane is on LTIR for a month or two. How much space? Your guess is as good as mine but you believe it doesn't create cap space. I don't think that is fact one way or another bud. But you can pretend that fans on HF boards in a popular bandwagon reveals factual information if you wish.

Oilers have $91.6M of cap hits.
* $6.367M is with Smith and Klefbom (placed on LTIR before the season I believe)
* $9.4M of this is Smith, Klefbom, and Puljujarvi
* $5.125M of that is Kane

$91.6M - $9.4M (Smith, Klefbom, and Puljuarvi) = $82.24M. That would put them below the cap so then if Kane is still on LTIR for a month or two, I do believe that accrues cap space. Probably around $1M - $2M range. This is simple guessing on my part but if true, it's a much better situation than you are in now. Riding the rest of the season with a 20 or 21 man roster is very risky. If anybody goes on IR (not LTIR) and you have to call somebody up, it chews into cap space even more and you might not be able to even ice a 20 man roster.

Edmundson at full cap hit still don't fit (I believe but not sure). At 50% and for 50% of a season, his cap hit is $875k.

 

[BudBundy]

NHL Blocked Shot Leaders 2022-23 | StatMuse

Alec Martinez blocked the most shots in 2022-23, with 244 blocks.

www.statmuse.com

This right here is why I'm confident the Habs will get back a solid return for Edmundson

20 more blocked shots in 10 less games than anyone on the Oilers

Because the Oilers have possession of the puck a lot more?

 

[Homesick]

you guys paid us a 2nd for a worst player last deadline...

I wouldn't trade Kulak for Edmundson today

NHL Blocked Shot Leaders 2022-23 | StatMuse

Alec Martinez blocked the most shots in 2022-23, with 244 blocks.

www.statmuse.com

This right here is why I'm confident the Habs will get back a solid return for Edmundson

20 more blocked shots in 10 less games than anyone on the Oilers

Lol most of his blocked shots come after one of his brutal give aways. I've never seen a player so bad with the puck

 

[Habs Halifax]

Of course you got more for Chairot. People thought he could be a 2/3 defenseman on a contender. Edmundson is heavy...but based on his play this year I have a hard time believing that GM's are lining up for him for any more than a depth role.

Oh, make no mistake, GM's want to add a player like Edmundson with his physical play, ability to play both sides very well, and playoff experience. The issue is teams don't want to pay high prices and fans think you should only trade 1st rounders if you are getting top of the line-up players like Kane.

Not willing to pay high prices doesn't mean the player is not sough after. That's two separate conversations.

Edmundson is better than Kulak and Kulak got a 2nd. Edmundson may not get a 1st (I don't know) but it will be more than a 2nd. Oilers don't have to pay that and it's their choice but please spare us with the player devalue narrative. You know realize that Kulak is in your top 4D right now right? And for the record, I do like Kulak. However, he is not better than Edmundson. Habs fans know both of these players very well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hes a 4th on our team.
Can have something to do about he feels well needed? Because he is.

If Kulak is 4th on your D depth chart heading into the playoffs, you are in a world of pain when it comes to playoffs. And I do like Kulak. He's just not a top 4D I would carry for the playoffs.

Doesn't have to be Edmundson you trade for but come on man... Oilers surely want to improve you roster for the playoffs right? Yeah, I know cap space is a problem. But if you are willing to dig into futures, teams like the Habs (and others) can help.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I mean, Kris Russell blocked a lot of shots for us last year and nobody in their right mind would have moved a first for him. All Edmundson is doing is tanking his own value.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

I wouldn't trade Kulak for Edmundson today

Lol Edmundson is much better then Kulak

 

[Chose]

I mean, Kris Russell blocked a lot of shots for us last year and nobody in their right mind would have moved a first for him. All Edmundson is doing is tanking his own value.

Kris Russel was also 5'10'', 170lbs, those things are not in a vacuum... Edmundson does much more, and he does this also very well...

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Kris Russel was also 5'10'', 170lbs, those things are not in a vacuum... Edmundson does much more, and he does this also very well...

Kris Russell is the league's all time leader in blocked shots.

Edmundson...doesn't, though. Habs fans are just not wanting anyone else to realize he's cooked.