Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey Part II

[haveandare]

Neither does JT Miller, but I digress.

Something like .9 ppg these days is pretty great production, especially for a guy who’s very rarely playing with our best forwards

 

[Machinehead]

Something like .9 ppg these days is pretty great production, especially for a guy who’s very rarely playing with our best forwards

Miller is undoubtedly a good producer but his analytics are satanic.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Miller is undoubtedly a good producer but his analytics are satanic.

Don't you think they'd be better if he played with some of our top possession players? He always seems to get put on a line with average or worse possession forwards.

 

[Machinehead]

Don't you think they'd be better if he played with some of our top possession players? He always seems to get put on a line with average or worse possession forwards.

That's because everyone he plays with becomes an average or worse possession forward.

He and Hayes were surgically attached last year, and all of a sudden, Hayes -who was an absolute abortion last year- is a positive CF% and xGF% player with very hard usage.

Miller appears to be the common denominator.

 

[haveandare]

Miller is undoubtedly a good producer but his analytics are satanic.

What do you make of that? That means the team is usually outshot when he's on the ice but somehow he scores a bunch, right?

 

[silverfish]

never mind. did not realize this was the Vesey thread.

 

[Machinehead]

What do you make of that? That means the team is usually outshot when he's on the ice but somehow he scores a bunch, right?

That's pretty much the size of it. He's great offensively but he sucks in the other two zones and along the boards.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This guy's been a little better recently, he's actually performing as an effective top 9 forward the last 15 games. If he does that, I can't complain.

 

[darko]

On pace for 15+ goals and 30-35 points in his 2nd season. Not an NHL forward. Few people looking silly right about now.

 

[silverfish]

Yes, this little run has boosted him.

Now, among the 143 forwards who have played at least 1400 5v5 minutes over the past two years, he's only..

14th worst in points per 60
5th worst in relative shot attempt percentage
Last in relative goals for percentage
5th worst in relative expected goals for percentage

Way to go, James!

 

[DanielBrassard]

Yes, this little run has boosted him.

Now, among the 143 forwards who have played at least 1400 5v5 minutes over the past two years, he's only..

14th worst in points per 60
5th worst in relative shot attempt percentage
Last in relative goals for percentage
5th worst in relative expected goals for percentage

Way to go, James!

I don't know how the results can be denied.

 

[silverfish]

I don't know how the results can be denied.

A lot of recent "oohing and aahing" from Joe Mich and Sam.

You know how different all the takes on this site would be if everyone watched the game on mute?

 

[DanielBrassard]

A lot of recent "oohing and aahing" from Joe Mich and Sam.

You know how different all the takes on this site would be if everyone watched the game on mute?

I suppose. Personally I don't really pay attention to what the announcers say. They are paid to pump up the team as much as possible, which I absolutely can't stand. Much rather people be honest.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

A lot of recent "oohing and aahing" from Joe Mich and Sam.

You know how different all the takes on this site would be if everyone watched the game on mute?

The oohing and aahhhing from the announcers to judge a player is almost as silly as using "advanced" stats to do the same.

 

[darko]

Yes, this little run has boosted him.

Now, among the 143 forwards who have played at least 1400 5v5 minutes over the past two years, he's only..

14th worst in points per 60
5th worst in relative shot attempt percentage
Last in relative goals for percentage
5th worst in relative expected goals for percentage

Way to go, James!

What's your point? You do realize how many NHL forwards there are?

Trying to figure out who is more annoying, Lias bashers or Vesey not an NHL player crew.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't think what silverfish said should be dismissed, but the biggest job of a top 9 forward is to score points. In this isolated sample, he's done his job, in terms of points. He's been okay, I don't think anyone's claiming he's been great.

 

[DanielBrassard]

What's your point? You do realize how many NHL forwards there are?

Trying to figure out who is more annoying, Lias bashers or Vesey not an NHL player crew.

Even if you expanded the TOI requirement to include more players, JV doesn't fair much better. Is he an NHLer? I guess, but he's not a good one.

 

[darko]

I'm not saying he's great. He's a 2nd year forward who looks capable of carving out a nice NHL career by being a bottom-6 player.

 

[mrmovies779]

Trying to figure out who is more annoying, Lias bashers or Vesey not an NHL player crew.

Trick question-answer is both

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'm not saying he's great. He's a 2nd year forward who looks capable of carving out a nice NHL career by being a bottom-6 player.

I just don't see what points to that. When he is on the ice the Rangers consistently lose the shot attempt and goal battle. He has nice hands around the net but he's deficient in alot of other facets of the game.

 

[silverfish]

What's your point? You do realize how many NHL forwards there are?

Trying to figure out who is more annoying, Lias bashers or Vesey not an NHL player crew.

What's the point? The point is that he's objectively one of the worst players who gets the ice time that he does.

The oohing and aahhhing from the announcers to judge a player is almost as silly as using "advanced" stats to do the same.

You missed the point. When you use the "eye-test" and "eye-test" only, your biases are made for you. If Joe sees something he likes, he's going to talk about it. You're going to see at least two replays of it. It's going to be conditioned into you.

Watch a game on mute, and don't watch any replays and then come read one of the PGTs. See how much your take lines up with the masses.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

What's the point? The point is that he's objectively one of the worst players who gets the ice time that he does.



You missed the point. When you use the "eye-test" and "eye-test" only, your biases are made for you. If Joe sees something he likes, he's going to talk about it. You're going to see at least two replays of it. It's going to be conditioned into you.

Watch a game on mute, and don't watch any replays and then come read one of the PGTs. See how much your take lines up with the masses.

That's not true at all. I watch the play and listen to same/joe but have watched this game long enough to critique a certain play on the ice how i see fit. Whether they go into detail about it or not. Sometimes it is a nice place they go on about, sometimes it's definitely an overblown play that happens 50x a game. I listen to them to listen to them, not to look for clarification of plays. The player I feel like they go completely overboard with is Nash and how "amazing" it is how he can drive to the net with the puck.

 

[silverfish]

That's not true at all. I watch the play and listen to same/joe but have watched this game long enough to critique a certain play on the ice how i see fit. Whether they go into detail about it or not. Sometimes it is a nice place they go on about, sometimes it's definitely an overblown play that happens 50x a game. I listen to them to listen to them, not to look for clarification of plays. The player I feel like they go completely overboard with is Nash and how "amazing" it is how he can drive to the net with the puck.

What makes what you see better than what I see?

You're also ignoring replays, which are a huge factor in how you remember the game. Repetition, ya know?

We don't need to have this conversation again, so I'm gonna leave it here.

 

[eco's bones]

Vesey is alright on this team as a third liner--if the team didn't have a couple forwards out or was a bit deeper we're better off with him on the 4th line. There's some offense there and his overall play is passable enough. On some teams he might be a contender for 2nd line duty--the Detroit team we faced last night for instance. His offensive game has disappeared before for long stretches. That's something he's got to work on because a passable overall game with a nonexistent offensive game is not a very good combination. When Nash disappears he at least gives you very good penalty killing and back checks smartly. There's a big difference in the money the two of them make but even so.......OTOH we might also keep in mind that Nash gets more ice time with better quality line mates than Vesey does and has 9 goals and 17 points compared to Vesey's 8 goals and 15 points and they both have played every game.

If Vesey can get to 35 or so points that's not bad and I think that's achievable for him--he like a few others should be getting some extra ice time now that Kreider's out of the picture for a while.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

What's your point? You do realize how many NHL forwards there are?

And to be near last in overall production stats of ALL those players isn't alarming?