Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey Part II

[darko]

And to be near last in overall production stats of ALL those players isn't alarming?

Read my post above

 

[The Crypto Guy]

And to be near last in overall production stats of ALL those players isn't alarming?

Not when he looks fine out there and is putting up some points.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Not when he looks fine out there and is putting up some points.

*When YOU think he looks fine

Also, he does "put up some points", but very inefficiently for the amount of ice time he gets.

 

[darko]

The only issue with Vesey is the ice time AV gives him. That’s it. He's a good bottom-6 forward.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

*When YOU think he looks fine

Also, he does "put up some points", but very inefficiently for the amount of ice time he gets.

Nope. Well more than the majority thinks he looks fine. Not sure what you're expectations of him were.

That 13:49 minutes of ice time he should really be putting up 2 points a game right?

Maybe he's just not a #BigBoy? #SlimJim

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The only issue with Vesey is the ice time AV gives him. That’s it. He's a good bottom-6 forward.

?

He's 9th among forwards...9 seconds away from being 10th... he averages less than 14 minutes a game. I think his ice time is perfect.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Delete

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Nope. Well more than the majority thinks he looks fine. Not sure what you're expectations of him were.

That 13:49 minutes of ice time he should really be putting up 2 points a game right?

Maybe he's just not a #BigBoy? #SlimJim

Vesey gets about the same ES ice time as Grabner and Fast. Compare their P/60 to theirs and you'll see the insane difference.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Vesey's not been playing that much this season. His overall TOI is appropriate for his contribution to the team, the problem is that AV uses him on the PP over Hayes, some games AV really goes overboard with Vesey's ice time and gives him way too much and that at times he gets put on a line he shouldn't.

Recently though, he's not playing much, and he's actually producing points in little minutes.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I ask, what does Vesey do well? To me, he is effective around the net, and struggles elsewhere. Well below average passer, not really a threat to beat a goalie with his shot from distance, weak defensively.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I questioned Vesey's skating when he was coming out of college hockey, but I think he's a good skater for a player his size. I agree he's good in front of the net. He's tough. He'll go hard into hits and isn't afraid to take a hit to make a play. He'll also drop the gloves, if need be. He's a coordinated puck handler. I don't think he's a good puck handler because his decision making with the puck is terrible and he can't make passes when handling the puck, but he can transport the puck.

Thats not a lot though, he's mostly not a very good NHL'er.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I questioned Vesey's skating when he was coming out of college hockey, but I think he's a good skater for a player his size. I agree he's good in front of the net. He's tough. He'll go hard into hits and isn't afraid to take a hit to make a play. He'll also drop the gloves, if need be. He's a coordinated puck handler. I don't think he's a good puck handler because his decision making with the puck is terrible and he can't make passes when handling the puck, but he can transport the puck.

Thats not a lot though, he's mostly not a very good NHL'er.

Mostly agree.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think if he played exclusively on the fourth line, 10-12 minutes per game, he'd be fine. No PP time or anything.

 

[eco's bones]

On the question of power play time for forwards--Zuccarello, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Kreider (out injured now), Miller and who else?--I mean we could give time to Hayes for sure and then there's Desharnais and Nash and I'm not sure that Desharnais hasn't been more effective with the man advantage than Nash. Rick has been out on the PWP a lot too and he's got 2 goals and 0 assists this year--it's not just Vesey not producing much. The Rangers haven't used Hayes, Fast or Grabner. Lettieri comes up and he goes right on the PWP. I have no problem taking Vesey out of the PWP rotation but the reasons for its not being very effective are not all on Vesey. Shattenkirk and McDonagh are not exactly hot either.

Anyway the Rangers really need to get those right handed shooting options working so to me I'd be trying to work Lettieri into a regular rotation on the PWP. With Kreider down--they need a big guy setting up in front of the net too. That should be Nash or Hayes but again Nash has hardly done squat on the PWP this year.

 

[Inferno]

On pace for 15+ goals and 30-35 points in his 2nd season. Not an NHL forward. Few people looking silly right about now.

He's played better of late . still sucks.

 

[darko]

He's played better of late . still sucks.

Right. Every team has at least 2-3 guys that suck going by those standards.

 

[eco's bones]

Right. Every team has at least 2-3 guys that suck going by those standards.

I don't really think there is an NHL team that Vesey wouldn't be on if he were signed by them. This isn't to say he is a great player but he's a legit NHL player. There is also though room for improvement in his game. His defensive play could take an uptick. Truthfully I like my bottom 6 players to be good penalty killers. The Rangers don't use him in that role. He's not very good on the power play--then again Nash isn't either. The Rangers IMO have about 5 forwards they can use for that function and one of them is going to be out for at least two months. I think it's a legit complaint and that they should use Hayes on the power play.

His production numbers are pretty much in the same neighborhood as Nash's who gets more premium ice time. They are acceptable 3rd line numbers for this stage of the season even though he's played a good portion of it on the 4th line . He pro rates to over 30 points for the season. He does make really nice heads up plays at times--like on the Desharnais goal the other night--he's just not doing it consistently enough to justify being on a higher line.

 

[Inferno]

Vesey does very little well outside of a 5 foot radius arou d the opposition's net.

In that zone he's a bona fide top 6 player.....outside that zone...he's not an nhl player.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Vesey does very little well outside of a 5 foot radius arou d the opposition's net.

In that zone he's a bona fide top 6 player.....outside that zone...he's not an nhl player.

That's literally the oddest comment on a player I ever heard.

That's like me saying AO is a bona fide 1st liner player in the offensive zone...outside that zone he is not an NHL player. Or me saying Staal is a bona fide top 4 defenseman in his prime in the defensive zone, outside of that he was not an NHL player.

 

[haohmaru]

Vesey does very little well outside of a 5 foot radius arou d the opposition's net.

In that zone he's a bona fide top 6 player.....outside that zone...he's not an nhl player.

Of course he’s an NHL player. He’s a 2nd year 3rd line winger on a ~30 point pace. He’s pretty much exactly what I expected him to be when we signed him.

 

[Inferno]

That's literally the oddest comment on a player I ever heard.

That's like me saying AO is a bona fide 1st liner player in the offensive zone...outside that zone he is not an NHL player. Or me saying Staal is a bona fide top 4 defenseman in his prime in the defensive zone, outside of that he was not an NHL player.

No..it's really not..like not at all.

In a 5 foot radius around the net he has good hands and an accurate shot...away from that zone..he tries to make plays....and fails....he tries to make passes...and fails...he tries to backcheck to help the d...but fails...he turns pucks over at an alarming rate..his puck retrieval is average but when he has the puck on his stick his decision making and on I've awareness is absolutely horrific.

Near the net...where he has basically 1 option...shoot the puck...he's solid.
Even the pass to d.d. wasn't a pass..he was trying to bank the puck in.

But u guys feel free to think the way u do
..I see a guy who stinks at almost every aspect of hockey other than shooting pucks from a 5 foot distance.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

No..it's really not..like not at all.

In a 5 foot radius around the net he has good hands and an accurate shot...away from that zone..he tries to make plays....and fails....he tries to make passes...and fails...he tries to backcheck to help the d...but fails...he turns pucks over at an alarming rate..his puck retrieval is average but when he has the puck on his stick his decision making and on I've awareness is absolutely horrific.

Near the net...where he has basically 1 option...shoot the puck...he's solid.
Even the pass to d.d. wasn't a pass..he was trying to bank the puck in.

But u guys feel free to think the way u do
..I see a guy who stinks at almost every aspect of hockey other than shooting pucks from a 5 foot distance.

He gives the puck over an an "alarming" rate but yet is only credited for 22 turnovers on the season. He backchecks just fine and makes a few good defensive plays a game and is one of our better forecheckers. He hits fine, he plays positionally fine. The only thing i will agree with is his passing is below average.

But I feel like you just hate the guy to hate it so you can continue to be biased toward him and hate him all you want.

 

[DanielBrassard]

He gives the puck over an an "alarming" rate but yet is only credited for 22 turnovers on the season. He backchecks just fine and makes a few good defensive plays a game and is one of our better forecheckers. He hits fine, he plays positionally fine. The only thing i will agree with is his passing is below average.

But I feel like you just hate the guy to hate it so you can continue to be biased toward him and hate him all you want.

Using the NHL.com turnover statistics doesn't help, they are not very accurate. How come criticism is always deemed hate? It was the same thing with Girardi back in the day, if we criticized him, we hated the guy and just wanted him to fail. How about, Vesey according to the stats is a bad NHL'er, and to some of us, he doesn't pass our eye test. It's that simple.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Using the NHL.com turnover statistics doesn't help, they are not very accurate. How come criticism is always deemed hate? It was the same thing with Girardi back in the day, if we criticized him, we hated the guy and just wanted him to fail. How about, Vesey according to the stats is a bad NHL'er, and to some of us, he doesn't pass our eye test. It's that simple.

No more inaccurate than "fancy stats".

 

[Inferno]

I don't hate vesey. I hate avs usage of him.

I'm fine with him as a 4th liner..especially with multiple injuries
Anything else and I'm annoyed.

Av stinks at recognizing his players strengths and weaknesses