Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey Part II

[Bob Richards]

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[HFBS]

...not sure about everyone else, but I too had high expectations. Not that he would be a so called "star", but I really thought he would be more of a difference maker. He showed many signs of such very early on in the year. That start was what probably accentuated what I thought he would me more "like".

It seemed around the 40 game mark where he became more and more invisible.
Articles in the tabloids etc.about the "reasons" for his disappearance. It all made sense, a situation similar to Hayes but Hayes rebounded later on in his 1st year, didn't he? That is where I became "disappointed". I really thought he would have found a second wind.

With the way the Rangers acquired Vesey and Hayes, with every team in a bidding frenzy, it's natural to think these will be great players and game changers. With all the personnel and draft activity lately, I've pretty much forgotten Vesey's even on the team. He better not spend much of the next season as invisible as he was for much of this past season or he might very well be invisible somewhere else.

 

[NickyFotiu]

With the way the Rangers acquired Vesey and Hayes, with every team in a bidding frenzy, it's natural to think these will be great players and game changers. With all the personnel and draft activity lately, I've pretty much forgotten Vesey's even on the team. He better not spend much of the next season as invisible as he was for much of this past season or he might very well be invisible somewhere else.

I wonder if Hayes was our own 1st round pick and Vesey was our own 3rd round pick would they get more support occasionally. They may not be 1st line players at this age but they were basically free to us. We didn't need to draft them, trade for them or even pay a huge salary for them as FA. Worst comes to worst they are legit tradable assets.

 

[HFBS]

I wonder if Hayes was our own 1st round pick and Vesey was our own 3rd round pick would they get more support occasionally. They may not be 1st line players at this age but they were basically free to us. We didn't need to draft them, trade for them or even pay a huge salary for them as FA. Worst comes to worst they are legit tradable assets.

Do you mean from the team or the fans? The fans expect a lot from hyped players whether they're hyped first round picks or hyped free agents.

 

[will1066]

No one was confusing these guys with top draft players, despite the bidding wars. Vesey was visible in the PO. I think he will improve this year.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Do you mean from the team or the fans? The fans expect a lot from hyped players whether they're hyped first round picks or hyped free agents.

I meant from fans. I'm not sure who "hyped" them up or why it matters. All I care about is how guys play on the ice. I think Hayes and Vesey have met my own expectations so far as 3rd and 1st year players.

 

[Ori]

I`m really excited about Vesey - I`ve notion we will see a lot more from this player in October - and he will certainly take another step in the right direction concerning his NHL career!

 

[HFBS]

I meant from fans. I'm not sure who "hyped" them up or why it matters. All I care about is how guys play on the ice. I think Hayes and Vesey have met my own expectations so far as 3rd and 1st year players.

You're not sure who hyped them? There was a bidding war for both of them that made news for weeks. When the Rangers signed them it was huge news on these boards, both from Ranger fans celebrating and fans of other teams sour grapes. You say that all you care about is how guys play on the ice. Do you expect the same level of play from Rick Nash and Marek Hrivik?

 

[NickyFotiu]

You're not sure who hyped them? There was a bidding war for both of them that made news for weeks. When the Rangers signed them it was huge news on these boards, both from Ranger fans celebrating and fans of other teams sour grapes. You say that all you care about is how guys play on the ice. Do you expect the same level of play from Rick Nash and Marek Hrivik?

There was a bidding war based on them both being low salary free assets. I never expected either one to be an all star player. I was always hoping that they might become top 6 players someday.

I expect more out of Nash than Marek based on his actual skills, his draft position, what we gave up in a trade, and based on his salary.

EDIT: Actually come to think of it I should not have repeated the term bidding war. There was no bidding war. The price was pretty much set for all the teams trying to get them by the NHL rules.

 

[trilobyte]

I saw (we all saw) some promising play from Vesey. He does have the ability to get open because he is a very smart player who is getting better at going to the right place.
Myself, I saw nothing unusual in the dip he took mid to late season. One of the best things I saw was the ice time that AV gave him even when he was not at his best.
I did not and do not believe in preventing rookies from going through those down times.
Vesey is going to have a good season with the Rangers

 

[Doctyl]

I saw (we all saw) some promising play from Vesey. He does have the ability to get open because he is a very smart player who is getting better at going to the right place.
Myself, I saw nothing unusual in the dip he took mid to late season. One of the best things I saw was the ice time that AV gave him even when he was not at his best.
I did not and do not believe in preventing rookies from going through those down times.
Vesey is going to have a good season with the Rangers

The problem with Vesey during the regular season was that he didn't create anything for himself or drive play at all. When he looked great was when Nash made a lot happen for him. He did look quite good at the end of the playoffs though.

I just wish Buchnevich got the same leash that Vesey did. The double standard was disgusting and Buch has shown far more promise.

 

[Irishguy42]

The problem with Vesey during the regular season was that he didn't create anything for himself or drive play at all. When he looked great was when Nash made a lot happen for him. He did look quite good at the end of the playoffs though.

Maybe Vesey is just that kind of player.

And that's fine, so long as he becomes really successful at capitalizing off of his teammates chances and doesn't need to rely on only one or two people to succeed.

 

[Doctyl]

Maybe Vesey is just that kind of player.

And that's fine, so long as he becomes really successful at capitalizing off of his teammates chances and doesn't need to rely on only one or two people to succeed.

I agree. We should be grooming the guy who scored 20 in 41 instead of the guy with 27 in 80 though. AV better not **** up Buch. He's the one who should be getting the long leash, not Vesey.

 

[trilobyte]

I agree. We should be grooming the guy who scored 20 in 41 instead of the guy with 27 in 80 though. AV better not **** up Buch. He's the one who should be getting the long leash, not Vesey.

I think Buchnevich will get that too. Buch has some things to work on too. He is a player that looks like he has gifts that we Rangers fans have not seen in years. Coaching staff has their development plan for players.
I think it will be fine.
And I think Jimmy Vesey will be very good.

 

[Fitzy]

Whatever Jimmy's failing and invisibility it isn't a far cry from what we saw from JT Miller for many years, and in a way still do.

He doesn't need to be a game breaker, and the biggest positive I can say from his rookie season is he didn't have the same number of boneheaded moments that Buchnevich did with cross ice passes or cheap giveaways.

Some people would say AHL seasoning would have done him well, I'm of the opposite mind. Watching him dominate my old club in the NCAA playoff suggested to me that Jimmy already knew how to play as the best guy on the ice- what he needs to get used to is not being that guy.

It didn't take Hagelin long to get adjusted- if you watch how he played in the NCAA versus NHL it's like a completely different player. Vesey just needs to get back to fundamentals and work his way up- and it may happen to be a multi year process.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I agree. We should be grooming the guy who scored 20 in 41 instead of the guy with 27 in 80 though. AV better not **** up Buch. He's the one who should be getting the long leash, not Vesey.

Unpatriotic American. Too much Russian bias.

I'm fine with Vesey getting the leash he did. I have no need to see Grabner put up fluky stats, and then regress inevitably. I'll take Vesey struggling on the 3rd line over whatever Grabner puts up on the 3rd line. Developing Vesey is more important than Grabner's minutes.

The problem is not Vesey's leash, its 100% about Buchnevich's leash. He was behind ****ing Grabner and Fast in the pecking order, which is beyond unacceptable.

 

[Larrybiv]

Unpatriotic American. Too much Russian bias.

I'm fine with Vesey getting the leash he did. I have no need to see Grabner put up fluky stats, and then regress inevitably. I'll take Vesey struggling on the 3rd line over whatever Grabner puts up on the 3rd line. Developing Vesey is more important than Grabner's minutes.

The problem is not Vesey's leash, its 100% about Buchnevich's leash. He was behind ****ing Grabner and Fast in the pecking order, which is beyond unacceptable.

I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way and apparently neither did AV. I wanted more playing time for Buch as much as anyone. But, to say that it is unacceptable to be behind Grabner (a seasoned professional that was putting the puck in the net regularly) and Fast (an outstanding defensive player, doing exactly what is asked of him for 2-3 years now) is unacceptable to say, no matter how much we all may see that Buch has more talent etc. etc.

You have to EARN the respect and ice time given......apparently he didn't and only set himself back by not being physically up to par......just look at Old Man Grabner's physique. Wow!

 

[Larrybiv]

I saw (we all saw) some promising play from Vesey. He does have the ability to get open because he is a very smart player who is getting better at going to the right place.
Myself, I saw nothing unusual in the dip he took mid to late season. One of the best things I saw was the ice time that AV gave him even when he was not at his best.
I did not and do not believe in preventing rookies from going through those down times.
Vesey is going to have a good season with the Rangers

When self evaluating, I'm sure he will look at those weeks closely and could in the long run really help into developing him to be a much better consistent player. One can only hope......, And I too think he will have a much better year.

Considering that we did NOTHING and lost NOTHING for these 2 players, we have everything to feel fortunate here. We are better because of it.

 

[darko]

I agree. We should be grooming the guy who scored 20 in 41 instead of the guy with 27 in 80 though. AV better not **** up Buch. He's the one who should be getting the long leash, not Vesey.

Both Buch and Vesey deserve long leashes.

 

[Lion Hound]

The lack of a C in this up and coming season has me baffled on where Vesey fits in.

I really want to see KZB reinstated for a full season.

Hayes and Vesey have all sorts of chemistry off the ice. When they played together they sucked. Miller and Hayes have been great together. If there is no new C I would assume that Vesey will play with Miller?

Kreider/Zibanejad/Buchnevich
Vesey/Miller/Nash
Grabner/Hayes/Zucc
Nieves/Deshairnais/Fast

 

[will1066]

The problem with Vesey during the regular season was that he didn't create anything for himself or drive play at all. When he looked great was when Nash made a lot happen for him. He did look quite good at the end of the playoffs though.

I just wish Buchnevich got the same leash that Vesey did. The double standard was disgusting and Buch has shown far more promise.

He was definitely more assertive in the playoffs, skating the puck and trying to create plays, especially when a lot of his teammates seemed to be in funks. I think as he becomes more and more comfortable, we will see him driving play more.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

[/I][/B]

I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way and apparently neither did AV. I wanted more playing time for Buch as much as anyone. But, to say that it is unacceptable to be behind Grabner (a seasoned professional that was putting the puck in the net regularly) and Fast (an outstanding defensive player, doing exactly what is asked of him for 2-3 years now) is unacceptable to say, no matter how much we all may see that Buch has more talent etc. etc.

You have to EARN the respect and ice time given......apparently he didn't and only set himself back by not being physically up to par......just look at Old Man Grabner's physique. Wow!

This is such BS. You earn it with your play, not being the teacher's pet. It was clear that Buchnevich deserved his minutes increased after his start, not decreased. AV decided the exact opposite. So what ended up happening is you get a team that fails big later in the season, offense is in decline late on, and can't even beat Ottawa. Big minutes for underperforming players late on, and they can't get the job done while Buch sits in the press box. If thats the team you want, think whatever you want. Not the team, I want.

Teams that play their best players the most are usually the best teams. Teams that play the coach's pet because they satisfy certain requirements that the coach likes that don't contribute more to winning hockey games are usually the worst teams. We weren't the best or worst, but given what this team claims is their goal, they failed, and AV failed. I think thats probably why they brought in an assistant this offseason to undermine him.

 

[silverfish]

The list of players who were 23-24 in their first-year in the NHL who recorded 25 to 30 points is really nothing to inspire confidence about Vesey's future.

Perhaps he'll break the mold.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&season_start=1&season_end=1&rookie=Y&age_min=23&age_max=24&pos=S&is_playoffs=N&c1stat=points&c1comp=gt&c1val=25&c2stat=points&c2comp=lt&c2val=30&threshhold=5&order_by=goals

 

[NickyFotiu]

The list of players who were 23-24 in their first-year in the NHL who recorded 25 to 30 points is really nothing to inspire confidence about Vesey's future.

Perhaps he'll break the mold.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&season_start=1&season_end=1&rookie=Y&age_min=23&age_max=24&pos=S&is_playoffs=N&c1stat=points&c1comp=gt&c1val=25&c2stat=points&c2comp=lt&c2val=30&threshhold=5&order_by=goals

I see Eddie Johnstone on your list so I'm sold!!!

 

[Synergy27]

The discussion about Vesey vs. Buch's leash is absurd. The only thing driving that was the fact that one of those guys was physically ready for the rigors of the NHL and the other one wasn't. I still don't know exactly what was going on with Buch's back injury last year, but regardless, the guy was simply not physically ready for the pounding.

Vesey, for all of his lack of production, never looked out of place and/or overwhelmed.

If the Rangers are going to be a good team this year, both of those guys are going to have to take pretty big steps forward. Let's all agree that we want that to happen.