Guess I'm chop liver
Let get started on my diagrams in paint!
Ive taken a break from the boards that I somehow didn't keep up with this thread. I have read the last few pages only but really should read more. I wanted to chime in. I think you guys are getting it all wrong on Helly. Helly saw success in every league up until last season. He was a goalie that lost confidence due to having the pressure of playing every game and having no vet backup to push him. He lost his confidence and players in this league will expose that and torch you. He saw what it took to play in this league and made the proper adjustments like any good goalie does during the summer. You don't change technique mid season, he wasn't too lazy to change his style but instead waited till the summer to make adjustments. @unholygoalie I don't agree with you as I just don't see him using the Lundqvist hybrid style much like you describe, he used it once this season, I think he may have added it to his repitoire but it's not his go to. He still plays similarly to last season and goes down in the butterfly but with is glove far higher than last season. His biggest change was changing his glove position, he had his glove lower than any goalie I have ever seen last season and it's clear this season that he carries it higher and in front, that is the biggest change to his technique. I will also challenge that he wasn't a slow moving goalie last season, but he is quicker this season and he alluded to that being his focus in the offseason. His balance is better and that means he improved core strength. The biggest thing for me is that he is playing with confidence again, he was always a goalie that stopped many pucks but lost confidence last season big time. He has his swagger back, he is tracking pucks well, and along with his confidence is playing higher in his crease, his rebound control is better, again confidence, and he is moving quickly in his crease. I believe he always had these tools minus the confidence, and that his only change is where he is holding his glove. Flats' job is to put him thru drills to maintain confidence, that's what goalie coaches are supposed to do. They sat him down for a period last year at some point to change his technique and that was a big no no mid season, you can't do that as you'll end up having a goalie second guess himself and in the National Hockey League where players can pick corners that spells trouble.
Anyway, long winded post but I don't agree with everything that I have read and think that Helly has the tools to be a number one and I think he is ready. Along with regaining his confidence he needed a vet to push him along to take some pressure off. These things have come true and voila he looks great. I wrote this same stuff all summer long with not many agreeing and saying he's not an NHL goalie and that we should give up on him. I know it's early in the season, but the tweak of the glove hand position and other small adjustments that were needed after seeing NHL shooters for a year and the confidence he's playing with he will continue this trend.
I should add @unholygoalie that your detailed post was a fun read, although I disagree with the hybrid part I do agree with the active hand very much, Helly has made the necessary change there, and part of that is adjusting to the best shooters in the world. I have played with and practiced with many pro and NHL players and the biggest difference from any pro players to NHL players is shot release and accuracy along with patience (notice Helly's patience, NHLers are so smart and patient, Helly learned and is now more patient and I see him outhinking opposing players more often), I really feel that Helly needed last year to learn and grow, that these players can pick a freakin corner.
I obviously don't think we're getting it all wrong, but I also don't think that you really think that either. Let's dig into some points and hopefully you'll see what I mean.
Point 1: It was really a confidence problem/Got torched as an inexperienced starter
I think we all agree here that Helle's confidence was problematic last year, and started early in the season when things were clear that the team was having issues. I would also agree that it took NHL quality talent to take advantage of a technical weakness he had in his game (note: not to expose it.. it was already clear). I'm not sure if you are suggesting that this was at the heart of his performance problem last year, but if so I would disagree. Confidence can of course have a drastic effect on performance, but if we're going down a causal rabbit hole I don't think it stops with Helle's confidence as a player. Again, I'm not saying you think that, but I've been clear in my position that the coaching staff did Helle a real disservice by not addressing some technique early after his drafting, throwing him in starter role thinking it'll all shake out, and then scrambling to try and fix the problem mid-season: the first allowed him to become overconfident, the second was an unfair gamble, and the third crushed him at a time he needed support. For me, his confidence issues last season did not make a good situation go bad, but rather took a problematic situation and made it worse.
Point 2: Hybrid style
I haven't argued that Helle is now playing with a hybrid style. Last season when I was sharing some thoughts on his glove position I referenced other top goalies in the league and how they use their gloves. Lundqvist was the only one in that list who maintained a low glove position and compensated with a hybrid butterfly in situations where he was more likely to make a high glove save. This season I saw that in Helle's play during the Vancouver game and got excited about it as it was a sign that he was beginning to compensate for his traditionally low glove position. He has made more than one save like that, and to me it seems like something he is doing more for high danger scoring chances (though not regularly).. but I didn't really want to make that pronouncement outright yet because like you I haven't seen enough of it. Certainly not to the extent that Lundqvist uses it.
We agree that in full butterfly he keeps his glove higher which is helping greatly.
I disagree that he is faster this year. I have always liked his lateral movement, and have never thought him to be sluggish. What has been the big difference for me is how Helle has become much more efficient in his movement (both in save response and recovery). I noticed that up until this season he would mostly drop into a full butterfly no matter what and then move in accordance with his read. Now he is not so quick to do that, especially for shots that are farther out or that he has a good look at. He is still getting to pucks at the same speed, but he's doing so without having to try and move his whole frame into the way. A large part of this is the active hands we agree on, but also things like his position on the posts. I agree that he has gotten stronger, and that it is a good thing for him to have worked on his core. I do think, though, that those were not necessary for him to employ the technical changes we are seeing. I can't read the Athletic article that Aavy posted because I don't have a sub yet (which is killing me right now), but the quote he provided I hope supports what I'm getting at which is that his movements are now about a fluid series of parts that happen in sequence, and he has more options for how he moves. This means he can be more efficient, saving some time and energy in making saves. This is in contrast to the constant drop like a sack of wet potatoes and then move... which to his credit worked for a long time.
Point 3: Flats' job
I've talked a lot about this already, but the gist is that he should be responding to Helle in ways that help him maximize his strengths and improve on his weaknesses. I don't think he's done that well, and it hurt Helle especially last season.
I agree Mason has been good for him.
I can't humblebrag to the same extent about the QoC I've faced, but I definitely welcome the discussion and disagreement. We probably agree on most things. I'm also happy to have you (or anyone else) keep things in check if I'm getting too ahead of myself. I'm just glad it was you and not the hockey professor..
I'm sad to not have included any paint diagrams.. but soon.. maybe it'll be a collage of hybrid saves.
The new normal: How Connor Hellebuyck re-wired his brain to get better in goal
At 5-0-1, Hellebuyck is off to a strong start to the season. The goaltender credits his performance to his “good off-season” which started last year with a switch in representation to Ray Petkau of Alpha Hockey INC., who introduced Hellebuyck to goalie guru Adam Francilia.
Francilia’s sport of choice was football. He has no institutionalized education and is mostly self-taught, but for 20 years Francilia has earned the trust of athletes to change their entire thinking about how they play. He helps them create what he describes as a new normal: “Teaching how to access the nervous system through the brain much more efficiently.”
What does that mean?
“My movements now generate from my core,” Hellebuyck said.
More here.....
https://theathletic.com/141708/2017...yck-re-wired-his-brain-to-get-better-in-goal/
Didn't get to read the whole thing, wish I could. One thing is for sure, some of the best goalies I have worked with as a goalie coach had incredible balance and their core strength allowed them to excel. Also, it allowed them to play quieter.
I see this with Helly, he also seems to have done some work with head trajectory, although I don't know this for a fact other than a hunch, some things hint at this. He is tracking the puck very well this year and the evidence is there that his balance has improved and this has helped with recovery. Is this what the article was about?
Rewired his brain, or learned how to catch a puck?The new normal: How Connor Hellebuyck re-wired his brain to get better in goal
At 5-0-1, Hellebuyck is off to a strong start to the season. The goaltender credits his performance to his “good off-season” which started last year with a switch in representation to Ray Petkau of Alpha Hockey INC., who introduced Hellebuyck to goalie guru Adam Francilia.
Francilia’s sport of choice was football. He has no institutionalized education and is mostly self-taught, but for 20 years Francilia has earned the trust of athletes to change their entire thinking about how they play. He helps them create what he describes as a new normal: “Teaching how to access the nervous system through the brain much more efficiently.”
What does that mean?
“My movements now generate from my core,” Hellebuyck said.
More here.....
https://theathletic.com/141708/2017...yck-re-wired-his-brain-to-get-better-in-goal/
Very interesting post. Also want to say thanks to Puck and Unholy for taking the time to post their thoughts. I've found this thread to be very informative.The Athletic is fantastic. Find one of the 30% off offers and subscribe for the whole year. I think it cost me $40 It's been great so far. Here's a little bit more for you.
“For Connor, it was teaching him how the core and how the oblique structure actually have to work to tie it together,” Francilia said. “Goaltending is so unnatural. We’re not created to move that way. When we run, walk, sprint or skate we have a locomotion to us and there is a rotation that we have. In goaltending, in a number of cases, we want to counter our natural rotary system. It's a series of exercises which I call counter rotation.”
Through thousands of repetitions, Francilia can rewire the brains of his clients and achieve new movement patterns. Hellebuyck has completely embraced Francilia’s philosophy.
“Having him has absolutely changed my game,” Hellebuyck said. “He taught me how the body should move and react. I’m way more in control and look the same when I’m moving as when I’m set. My hands aren’t flopping around, I’m not diving for pucks because I know I’m going to get there to make the save. I’m just waiting for the play to happen.”
[snip]
“Where it has helped me not to have an institutionalized education is we can’t program out the humanity. I think sport is as much art as it is science,” Francilia said. “To understand and get the most out of this human being, who is an athlete, who has a craft, is to understand the artistic side of that person as opposed to the analytic and science side…That approach helps you get to know the person and you don’t just look at them like a machine that comes in.”
Francilia’s marriage of science and art along with Hellebuyck’s dedication to his craft, have allowed the goaltender to achieve a standard of play he has been searching for.
Can you shorten your posts a bit, my wife will not like the amount of time this will take to respond lol
Point 1 I am a huge believer in confidence, as I feel this position is 80% mental I think that it's most crucial especially at this level of hockey. But his confidence was not lost cause of a few technical issues only but was compounded with how he was handled. I apologize as I did not read your post closely enough, I thought you said Flats should have fixed him mid season last year, now I realize you meant that they should have fixed his game the years after he got drafted. Gotcha, and agree there.
Point 2 I am a bit old school so forgive me here. I always preferred to play with my glove a bit lower than most, but I still had it out in front of my body quite a bit. I have no problem with lower glove position so to speak, but Helly held his glove lower than any goalie I have seen in a very long time. He has made adjustments to this positioning this year and I credit him for that.
I 100% agree that recovery has improved much this season, although I never found him slow (in fact I thought he moved very well in the crease) I find him more efficient in his movement and feel he is more patient. I do chalk this up to confidence and I also feel he is out waiting his opponent. His core strength has improved and he looks balanced hence not flopping as you say.
Point 3 I have always thought that goalie coaches thru out the season are there to instill confidence. They need to create drills that have repitition and allow you to feel good about your game. They are not there to change your game, I had a goalie coach that tried to do that once and it killed my confidence as I was second guessing myself and did not allow my instincts to kick in. I think we agree that Flats is there to give Helly confidence but I feel that he is not doing this, personal connections are very important with goalie coaches which is why I was open to change here in the summer.
Lastly, I dont know who the hockey professor is but I keep hearing about him. I by no means proclaim myself to be an expert but one thing I will say for sure:
Goalies tend to be a different breed to deal with mentally, and I feel that with your posts you are bang on and get that part of it, many coaches even at the NHL level aren't sure how to handle them. We agree on most things and I appreciate the insight.
Learned how to track a puck better.Rewired his brain, or learned how to catch a puck?
Never. We will still need Mason. Long season. We can't afford to have Hutch here, he's not too good. Ups and downs will happen and injuries too. Mason will be a big part of our team's success.Now that Helle has arrived do you trade Mason to one of these poor goaltending teams for their goalie plus their next 2 first overall picks?
Now that Helle has arrived do you trade Mason to one of these poor goaltending teams for their goalie plus their next 2 first overall picks?
Okay, I just see lots of teams complaining about losing because they have no goalie. Take Las Vegas for example. They also need to win right now to keep their fans interested. If you wait till the draft their guys are healthy so they don't need him anymore.
Is there any player you would give two firsts for? Other than Sidney Crosby, Ovechkin or Connor McD
Nah, it's the first season in Vegas - honeymoon. No one cares too much how they do. Winning is icing on the cake, but the novelty will keep people coming for this year at least. It wouldn't make sense for them to take on another $4M+ starting goalie...and seems like Mason would be a tough sell with his shakey start and a pretty mainstream low opinion of him.Okay, I just see lots of teams complaining about losing because they have no goalie. Take Las Vegas for example. They also need to win right now to keep their fans interested. If you wait till the draft their guys are healthy so they don't need him anymore.
Hell, half the teams in the league have a guy I'd give up 2 firsts for. Matthews, Karlsson, Tarasenko, Seguin, Kucherov, OEL, Barkov, Hedman, etc...Is there any player you would give two firsts for? Other than Sidney Crosby, Ovechkin or Connor McD
I’m wondering what kind of numbers will it take to resign this guy. It’s still early in the season, but after last year’s inconsistent performance the Jets still signed him to a big contract knowing he would be used as a backup. Also, how many more years before he becomes UFA?