Jeremy Jacobs bullish on Houston and Seattle, not Quebec

[uhlaw97]

One way or another, Houston needs a team. To heck with Quebec, Kansas City, etc.

 

[Killion]

One way or another, Houston needs a team. To heck with Quebec, Kansas City, etc.

... welp, hopefully you'll get one.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The NHL has enough teams on life support, supported by other owners. The one criteria that current NHL want in a new city/franchise is whether the new club can be self sufficient. Is there enough paying customers....long term in Houston, Seattle or Quebec? My opinion is only Seattle might have enough fan and business support that they can afford the 150m it takes to carry a NHL club year after year.

Just a note when people talk about "the league making money." The league does not make money. It's the owners that make or lose money. The "league" is really an entity that regulates the rules the owners and the NHLPA have established. Same with the NFL.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

The NHL has enough teams on life support, supported by other owners. The one criteria that current NHL want in a new city/franchise is whether the new club can be self sufficient. Is there enough paying customers....long term in Houston, Seattle or Quebec? My opinion is only Seattle might have enough fan and business support that they can afford the 150m it takes to carry a NHL club year after year.

Just a note when people talk about "the league making money." The league does not make money. It's the owners that make or lose money. The "league" is really an entity that regulates the rules the owners and the NHLPA have established. Same with the NFL.

And yet the NHL has had one franchise relocation in the past 20 years. And if revenue sharing means teams are on life support then I guess the NFL and NBA are in a lot of trouble also.

 

[Ernie]

The NHL has clearly made a business decision to subsidize teams in order to ensure stability. They've negotiated hard in subsequent CBA's to essentially funnel money from the players to the teams in weaker markets.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

And yet the NHL has had one franchise relocation in the past 20 years. And if revenue sharing means teams are on life support then I guess the NFL and NBA are in a lot of trouble also.

You're not comparing the same thing. Most of the NFL revenue comes from the sharing of a huge national contract. The NHL does have huge TV contracts in comparison. The NHL, meaning other owners, have spend at least 150m supporting the failed financially Arizona team.(which has nothing to do with revenue sharing) They just gave Arizona money to pay it's bills. One reason owners don't want a team to go under is it would seriously devalue the "paper" value of their franchise. The NHL owners would not be able to get a 500m franchise fee from Vegas, if the Arizona franchise could have been bought for one dollar. Too many of these franchises were awarded because they included some side deals with real estate or an arena. Nothing to do with the value of an NHL team. I can't think of any reason why any sensible person would think that Kansas City could support an NHL franchise. Just because they have an arena? That's no reason at all. (I feel the same about Quebec).
Hey if a owner wants to pony up 500m for a franchise, the current NHL owners and the NHLPA would have no objections And I don't either. It's not my money.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The NHL has clearly made a business decision to subsidize teams in order to ensure stability. They've negotiated hard in subsequent CBA's to essentially funnel money from the players to the teams in weaker markets.

You'r right Ernie. The NHL could be a 16 team league with a salary cap of 110m or it can subsidize teams and be 31 team league with 75m salary cap. The players certainly don't want fewer jobs and the even the money losing owners don't want their 500m franchises (paper value) be worth one dollar.

 

[Jonas1235]

does anyone think expansion is bad for business? Because to me it's all positive, especially if you got the player talent.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

does anyone think expansion is bad for business? Because to me it's all positive, especially if you got the player talent.

Remains to be determined, we haven't had a full true expansion of talent to feed at the prospect league level

 

[edog37]

JJ and not Bettman is the one pulling the strings. But the NHL might be trapped again like they were with the Jets if they don't play their cards right.

agreed. but I like what Quebec is doing. Following the Winnipeg model & building a strong foundation.

 

[powerstuck]

I was a big supporter of the WHA because the Winnipeg Jets were a part of that league. However, the league was mainly able to get off the ground because the teams offered NHL players more money than they were getting in the senior league. Since the WHA was mostly a gate driven league without a national television contract, it would not be able to exist in this day and age. The NHL is no longer controlled by owners trying to pay players peanuts for the privilege to play on their particular team. The players are now paid millions and the league makes hundreds of millions from media. The WHA came into existence at just the right time in history and it is not likely we'll ever see something like that occur again.

I agree. But there is no really a way to know what would NHL and WHA look today if the merger didn't happen.

 

[Melrose Munch]

agreed. but I like what Quebec is doing. Following the Winnipeg model & building a strong foundation.

True, but that took years and I feel like the NHL would have avoided Winnipeg if Portland was open

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Portland will never be open as long as Vulcan has hands in both the Blazers/Seahawks/Sounders. That's why it's hard if Allen hadn't had the Blazers, would the Sonics still be in Seattle?

 

[powerstuck]

One way or another, Houston needs a team. To heck with Quebec, Kansas City, etc.

What Huston needs more than an NHL team is someone who has at least $500M to spend and doesn't care one bit to lose all those millions. Kinda like Foley. Except there is not many guys like Foley around North America.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

What Huston needs more than an NHL team is someone who has at least $500M to spend and doesn't care one bit to lose all those millions. Kinda like Foley. Except there is not many guys like Foley around North America.

What makes you think a team in Houston would lose money? The Stars make money and at one time not too long ago before Tom Hicks' financial problems they were top 10 in the league in revenue. Houston is a huge market and with competent ownership it should be no problem for a team there to make money.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

What makes you think a team in Houston would lose money? The Stars make money and at one time not too long ago before Tom Hicks' financial problems they were top 10 in the league in revenue. Houston is a huge market and with compaten ownership it should be no problem for a team there to make money.

Houston isn't a huge market, but how damaged is that market by the Rockets and how they handled pro hockey there by Alexander, that has nothing to do with Dallas, Atticus, the arena in Minnesota, is what forced that relocation

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Houston isn't a huge market, but how damaged is that market by the Rockets and how they handled pro hockey there by Alexander, that has nothing to do with Dallas, Atticus, the arena in Minnesota, is what forced that relocation

Houston is the #8 largest TV market in the US, so yes it's a huge market and it's a no brainer that the NHL should be there. Not sure why you're bring up Minnesota, what does that have to do with Dallas' success as an NHL market?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

who owned the franchise in Houston, Atticus, that's one reason why Houston has no team presently

 

[cbcwpg]

Houston is the #8 largest TV market in the US, so yes it's a huge market and it's a no brainer that the NHL should be there. Not sure why you're bring up Minnesota, what does that have to do with Dallas' success as an NHL market?

Same things have been said about Phoenix and Atlanta. Market size alone should never be used as a reason to put a team anywhere.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

As I've said before going back to these small Canadian markets is a backwards move for the NHL. Why waste an expansion team on these markets when big American markets like Houston, Seattle and KC are available? These are the markets that will grow the fanbase and revenue in the future.

I don't really agree with that. But I guess that might be my Canadian mentality.

 

[superdeluxe]

Same things have been said about Phoenix and Atlanta. Market size alone should never be used as a reason to put a team anywhere.

Eh that is kind of a simplistic way to look at it. Sure its not just about market size, but you have reasons why its not working in Phoenix (Bad Location, No Ownership stability) and Atlanta (Ownership group issues surrounding the Arena)

 

[DowntownBooster]

One way or another, Houston needs a team. To heck with Quebec, Kansas City, etc.

I would to see this happen and I hope they call them the Aeros. I always felt that Houston should have been one of the teams included in the WHA merger with the NHL. Unfortunately the Aeros folded one year too early. As someone who was around to follow the WHA, it would be great to rekindle the rivalry the Jets and Aeros had when Winnipeg had Bobby Hull and Houston had Gordie Howe. Those were some great games. I know someone will point out - hey, the team you talk about is now in Arizona but I'll look past that and acknowledge this post is for fans of the WHA Aeros who also enjoyed the rivalry. The teams may be different from that time but it's the same two cities. Here's hoping for you Houston!

 

[Killion]

I would to see this happen and I hope they call them the Aeros. I always felt that Houston should have been one of the teams included in the WHA merger with the NHL. Unfortunately the Aeros folded one year too early. As someone who was around to follow the WHA, it would be great to rekindle the rivalry the Jets and Aeros had when Winnipeg had Bobby Hull and Houston had Gordie Howe. Those were some great games. I know someone will point out - hey, the team you talk about is now in Arizona but I'll look past that and acknowledge this post is for fans of the WHA Aeros who also enjoyed the rivalry. The teams may be different from that time but it's the same two cities. Here's hoping for you Houston!

Absolutely.... and try as the various leagues & the NHL might, the intangible history of a club is not a commodity thats transferable. So while the paperwork & other tangibles were moved from Winnipeg~Arizona, Quebec~Denver, Hartford~Raleigh, that Ottawa had a decades long "vacation" from League engagement it matters not a whit. That history & the various rivalries dont ever leave the collective consciousness, the stories & lore passed along from one generation to the next in any given market. It lives forever in the hearts & minds of the fans forever, an inextinguishable flame, something that simply cannot be packed up & moved. A state of forever permanence. Not even debatable. Ridiculous, absurd to think that all that history can just "go with" a Relo'd club or as was the case with Ottawa history completely forgotten and that paradigm would include former WHA markets like Houston, Cincinnati, Portland, Seattle & elsewhere should they find themselves once again playing in a top tier pro league... as was the old PCHA & or WHA.

 

[edog37]

True, but that took years and I feel like the NHL would have avoided Winnipeg if Portland was open

Point taken and agreed. but you can't go where there is no route.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Absolutely.... and try as the various leagues & the NHL might, the intangible history of a club is not a commodity thats transferable. So while the paperwork & other tangibles were moved from Winnipeg~Arizona, Quebec~Denver, Hartford~Raleigh, that Ottawa had a decades long "vacation" from League engagement it matters not a whit. That history & the various rivalries dont ever leave the collective consciousness, the stories & lore passed along from one generation to the next in any given market. It lives forever in the hearts & minds of the fans forever, an inextinguishable flame, something that simply cannot be packed up & moved. A state of forever permanence. Not even debatable. Ridiculous, absurd to think that all that history can just "go with" a Relo'd club or as was the case with Ottawa history completely forgotten and that paradigm would include former WHA markets like Houston, Cincinnati, Portland, Seattle & elsewhere should they find themselves once again playing in a top tier pro league... as was the old PCHA & or WHA.

Thanks Killion. Always appreciate the support for a point of view on something that at times can be so controversial.