Jeremy Jacobs bullish on Houston and Seattle, not Quebec

[Killion]

They were the ONLY choice and you have shown NOTHING that disproves that.

Guys, how about if we re-word this.... Winnipeg in a perfect world knowing what we know as to where the NHL would like to be likely wasnt the "first choice" on a Jacobs or Bettman, any other number of players "wish list" however it was the only option at that time and so here we are.

 

[WaW]

Man, are the anti-Canadian team people STILL bitter about Atlanta moving to Winnipeg? That's been done for over 5 years now, time to get over it really...

 

[aqib]

Guys, how about if we re-word this.... Winnipeg in a perfect world knowing what we know as to where the NHL would like to be likely wasnt the "first choice" on a Jacobs or Bettman, any other number of players "wish list" however it was the only option at that time and so here we are.

It may not be a place the players want to play, but the league had been working with them for a time preparing for a return. Its not like 2011 came along and they were like "oh man we have a team that needs a home! What do we do? Um ok Winnipeg you take them!" Other cities were denied a chance to even talk to ASG. Its pretty obvious what the deal was.

 

[Melrose Munch]

They were the ONLY choice and you have shown NOTHING that disproves that.

You have two people saying otherwise and you're still sticking to your guns. Fine, but what's happening with Quebec right should tell you what would have happened had a larger US market been open.

Guys, how about if we re-word this.... Winnipeg in a perfect world knowing what we know as to where the NHL would like to be likely wasnt the "first choice" on a Jacobs or Bettman, any other number of players "wish list" however it was the only option at that time and so here we are.

Agreed, and that's all I am saying.

Man, are the anti-Canadian team people STILL bitter about Atlanta moving to Winnipeg? That's been done for over 5 years now, time to get over it really...

People are over it, we are talking about the teacup in a storm aspect of it to be honest.

 

[aqib]

You have two people saying otherwise and you're still sticking to your guns. Fine, but what's happening with Quebec right should tell you what would have happened had a larger US market been open.

No two people are making assertions with NOTHING not even one link/quote/statement by a person who was in a position of authority to back it up. The league had been evaluating cities for at least 4 years prior to the move. That's a fact. One of those of cities was selected as the landing spot for the Coyotes if Glendale didn't pay up. That's a fact. Only one city was allowed to negotiate with ASG. That's a fact. Everything you are saying about other cities being preferred options is just speculation and assertions that you made up. I don't even know where Killion is getting the statement that Paul Allen felt that an NHL team in Portland didn't pencil out at $170 million when 1) there are reports he was willing to go to $200 million and 2) he never had the option to offer $170 million since the Coyotes were never put on the block for relocation.

 

[Killion]

^^^ Guys guys.... lets just drop this & move along, look forward, not through the rearview.

 

[Melrose Munch]

^^^ Guys guys.... lets just drop this & move along, look forward, not through the rearview.

Fine with me.

 

[cupcrazyman]

I am all for growing the game but at what point do the number of teams truly water down the on ice product ? If not already.

 

[Llama19]

 

[Melrose Munch]

The NHL might need to go back to Atlanta because of the travel gap.

Something like this

Atlanta
Washington
Carolina
Tampa
Florida

Boston
NYR
NYI
NJD
Phi
Pit

Toronto
Montreal
Detroit
Buffalo
Ottawa
Columbus


Chicago
Nashville
Houston
Dallas
St Louis
Minnesota
Winnipeg

Edmonton
Calgary
Seattle
Vancouver
Colorado

Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Anaheim
San Jose
Phoenix



Or if you go to Quebec and add Portland as well


Carolina
Tampa
Florida
Pittsburgh
Columbus

Boston
NYR
NYI
NJD
Phi
Wash

Toronto
Montreal
Buffalo
Detroit
Ottawa
Quebec


Chicago
Nashville
Houston
Dallas
St Louis
Minnesota
Winnipeg

Portland
Seattle
Edmonton
Calgary
Vancouver

Colorado
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Phoenix
San Jose

Colorado can go to the central and Winnipeg the northwest if requested.

No one is totally happy but someone has to take the hit. Pittsburgh is a high draw and one is needed for each division.

NHL needs a 4th city, weather it's Atlanta, Kansas City or even Hamilton.

@AlwaysSunnyInTampa @Fenway @Headshot77 what do you think?

 

[ponder719]

The NHL might need to go back to Atlanta because of the travel gap.
*truncating for space purposes

At this point, Atlanta would be a smegging disaster. They have no ownership group, no arena, and without those two being stable and solid, no hope of developing a fan base. If you're going to a 34 team league (and I think we're on our way there, in the long run) then you're probably not getting Atlanta in the east yet.

Presuming you go for the 6/6/5 - 6/6/5 split, instead of 9/8 - 9/8, a tight geographic configuration would recreate the division of death, with WAS/CAR/TB/FLA/random sacrifice, which is terrible for ratings and ticket sales.

What you may want in the East, to avoid that, is to add Quebec, and continue to keep WAS/CAR and TB/FLA separated, something like this:

MTL/QUE/BOS/TOR/BUF/OTT

WAS/CAR/DET/CBJ/PIT/PHI

TB/FLA/NYR/NYI/NJ

I know, separating Philly from NJ/NYR/NYI will never happen, but there's a logical link between the six teams I put together, plus a division consisting of Tampa, Miami, and greater NYC is actually pretty solid for travel, since all the divisional games are pretty tightly packed together.

Trouble is, the West would be a disaster. It's safe to assume that 34 teams currently would involve adding Seattle and Houston, and leaving everyone in place. If Arizona has to move, it'd either be to Portland for a song, or KC, probably also for a song. Either way, though, the time zone distribution of teams is awful.

PTZ: VGK/LA/ANA/SJ/VAN/SEA
Hybrid: ARZ
MTZ: EDM/CGY/COL
CTZ:CHI/NSH/DAL/STL/MIN/WPG/HOU

You have to split off one or two of the CTZ teams into a different division, and if you want to control for travel/TV times, it has to be two. Those two then have to be paired with the MTZ teams... but then they have Arizona swinging back into the PTZ, which is a problem.

VGK/LA/ANA/SJ/VAN/SEA
ARZ/EDM/CGY/COL/MIN/WPG
CHI/NSH/DAL/HOU/STL

Putting Arizona with the PTZ teams forces a full-time PTZ team into a division with at least one CTZ team, which is also awful for TV times. Portland, by the by, doesn't help this much; the only thing that helps is moving Arizona to either the CTZ or a full-time MTZ city.

Then you get something like this:
VGK/LA/ANA/SJ/VAN/SEA
EDM/CGY/COL/MIN/WPG
CHI/NSH/STL/KC/DAL/HOU

That's very compact and clean.

 

[Melrose Munch]

At this point, Atlanta would be a smegging disaster. They have no ownership group, no arena, and without those two being stable and solid, no hope of developing a fan base. If you're going to a 34 team league (and I think we're on our way there, in the long run) then you're probably not getting Atlanta in the east yet.

Presuming you go for the 6/6/5 - 6/6/5 split, instead of 9/8 - 9/8, a tight geographic configuration would recreate the division of death, with WAS/CAR/TB/FLA/random sacrifice, which is terrible for ratings and ticket sales.

What you may want in the East, to avoid that, is to add Quebec, and continue to keep WAS/CAR and TB/FLA separated, something like this:

MTL/QUE/BOS/TOR/BUF/OTT

WAS/CAR/DET/CBJ/PIT/PHI

TB/FLA/NYR/NYI/NJ

I know, separating Philly from NJ/NYR/NYI will never happen, but there's a logical link between the six teams I put together, plus a division consisting of Tampa, Miami, and greater NYC is actually pretty solid for travel, since all the divisional games are pretty tightly packed together.

Trouble is, the West would be a disaster. It's safe to assume that 34 teams currently would involve adding Seattle and Houston, and leaving everyone in place. If Arizona has to move, it'd either be to Portland for a song, or KC, probably also for a song. Either way, though, the time zone distribution of teams is awful.

PTZ: VGK/LA/ANA/SJ/VAN/SEA
Hybrid: ARZ
MTZ: EDM/CGY/COL
CTZ:CHI/NSH/DAL/STL/MIN/WPG/HOU

You have to split off one or two of the CTZ teams into a different division, and if you want to control for travel/TV times, it has to be two. Those two then have to be paired with the MTZ teams... but then they have Arizona swinging back into the PTZ, which is a problem.

VGK/LA/ANA/SJ/VAN/SEA
ARZ/EDM/CGY/COL/MIN/WPG
CHI/NSH/DAL/HOU/STL

Putting Arizona with the PTZ teams forces a full-time PTZ team into a division with at least one CTZ team, which is also awful for TV times. Portland, by the by, doesn't help this much; the only thing that helps is moving Arizona to either the CTZ or a full-time MTZ city.

Then you get something like this:
VGK/LA/ANA/SJ/VAN/SEA
EDM/CGY/COL/MIN/WPG
CHI/NSH/STL/KC/DAL/HOU

That's very compact and clean.

This is a great post. What I would say is that that the new Atlanta owners hasn't been contacted at this time. There's a whole that cause travel problems in the east because of that Another is with Quebec, makes it impossible to keep pittsburgh or boston with one of their main rivals. With Arizona, I tried to keep them, but them moving would make things a little better travel. I think the Caps will have attendance problems if they get stuck in the southeast, as you mentioned We could try this:

Car/Tam/Fla/Cbj/wsh
mtl/tor/ott/det/bos/que
buf/nyr/nyi/nj/phi/pit

you're western conference is great, only thing is Winnipeg travel is so bad.

 

[cheswick]

Wasn't he saying this exact thing prior to them opening up the expansion process for Vegas?

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Wasn't he saying this exact thing prior to them opening up the expansion process for Vegas?

Yes.

 

[Fenway]

@Melrose Munch They will never again put Boston and Montreal in separate divisions.

 

[Melrose Munch]

@Melrose Munch They will never again put Boston and Montreal in separate divisions.

Something has to give. Montreal's biggest rival is Toronto anyway. The acela corridor is fine together.

 

[FlameChampion]

I really thought when Quebec withdrew their expansion bid, that they had some handshake agreement with the NHL to get a team via relocation. They seemed to just go away quietly, which is kind of want Bettman prefers (Winnipeg vs Ballsilie).

But I am not sure anymore. Just doesnt seem like its in the cards for Quebec.

 

[Mightygoose]

I really thought when Quebec withdrew their expansion bid, that they had some handshake agreement with the NHL to get a team via relocation. They seemed to just go away quietly, which is kind of want Bettman prefers (Winnipeg vs Ballsilie).

But I am not sure anymore. Just doesnt seem like its in the cards for Quebec.

Quebec never withdrew their application. The league deferred it so it's effectively still active.

I will agree, they've gone quiet which is what the league wants so there won't be any news until the time draws near should it come to it. Still I think a shoe or maybe 2 has to drop out west before anything happens.

 

[FlameChampion]

Quebec never withdrew their application. The league deferred it so it's effectively still active.

I will agree, they've gone quiet which is what the league wants so there won't be any news until the time draws near should it come to it. Still I think a shoe or maybe 2 has to drop out west before anything happens.

You're right. It was deferrred.

Was reading the other announcement that Bettman made regarding Quebec, (after I had made my post), maybe theres still a chance. I do think Quebec are quietly working with the NHL

 

[powerstuck]

Something has to give. Montreal's biggest rival is Toronto anyway. The acela corridor is fine together.

Would it be a too big of a stretch to have Panthers+Lighting go Metro and Columbus move into Atlantic with Quebec ?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Would it be a too big of a stretch to have Panthers+Lighting go Metro and Columbus move into Atlantic with Quebec ?

What about Pittsburgh unless we go like this

Det
tor
mtl
clb
buf
bos
que
ott

nyr
nyi
phi
pit
fla
tb
car
was

That's too many per divsion. they have to go to 3.

 

[powerstuck]

That's too many per divsion. they have to go to 3.

Agree, but I was just trying to propose something without displacing too many pieces.
Two FL teams dont really fit with anyone in Atlantic, but are the closest to Carolina. So reuniting those 3.
Columbus, while may have something with Pittsburgh can create the same with Buffalo and Detroit (at least).

 

[Fenway]

Something has to give. Montreal's biggest rival is Toronto anyway. The acela corridor is fine together.

Montreal fans consider the Bruins their top rival. That is partly because the 2 teams have not met in the playoffs since 1979. Boston is the same distance from Montreal as Toronto and the Bruins developed a huge following in Quebec in the 70's as more Bruins games were televised into Quebec from a Vermont station than the Habs and Nords combined.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Montreal fans consider the Bruins their top rival. That is partly because the 2 teams have not met in the playoffs since 1979. Boston is the same distance from Montreal as Toronto and the Bruins developed a huge following in Quebec in the 70's as more Bruins games were televised into Quebec from a Vermont station than the Habs and Nords combined.

Montreal and Boston were in the save division and the Leafs were in the west as you very well know. I disagree that the Bruins are the top rival. Montreal and Toronto is nearly 100 years old.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Agree, but I was just trying to propose something without displacing too many pieces.
Two FL teams dont really fit with anyone in Atlantic, but are the closest to Carolina. So reuniting those 3.
Columbus, while may have something with Pittsburgh can create the same with Buffalo and Detroit (at least).

Right. That's why Quebec is so hard to fit in imo. That's why they want teams in the south. Quebec is squeezed in the north east. Having Atlanta or Charlotte or whatever allows the league to keep Pittsburgh with the northeast teams and Columbus with the other expansion teams. With Quebec, one of Boston, Pittsburgh, or even buffalo has to give up their rivalries.