Player Discussion Jake Virtanen | Jake It Or Break It Edition

[Pip]

A perennial bottom 5 team should still not be sitting 21 year old Virtanen over a useless group of veteran forwards who score a 5 on 5 goal every blue moon.

Agreed. We have too much filler on this roster (Eriksson, Granlund, Dowd, Gagner etc) and we can see it already blocking our young players

 

[PG Canuck]

 

[Jyrki21]

When you're rackin' up the wins at the heady rate this team is, there's definitely no room to experiment! More Dowd, that's what I say. Keep this juggernaut rollin'.

 

[elitepete]

I agree with this 100%.

 

[rune74]

When you play an average of 1o minutes a game(actually less) how is it expected that you can be a game changer?

Maybe a little more leash to get him to go out and try and pull it back when he goes to far.

 

[SgtToody]

When you play an average of 1o minutes a game(actually less) how is it expected that you can be a game changer?

Maybe a little more leash to get him to go out and try and pull it back when he goes to far.

I'd be eager to see him get more rope to sink-or-swim and ice time, and if you don't think he's ready send him down. But it remains a puzzling element how so many of the so-called vets can just suck and not produce/contribute yet have some extra lengthy room to keep on truckin'... When you run out of adequate good veterans you have to let your young guys try to fill those gaps. I don't see there being much opportunity for mistakes -- and of course i'm not factoring in mistakes made at practice, which may be a big part of Green's issues with Virtanen, Goldy etc.

 

[Ryp37]

Virtanen needs to start playing physical, tonight’s the perfect night to be a bull in a china shop

If it’s his shoulder that’s stopping him from doing this than he’ll never make it

 

[Horse McHindu]

I support this 1000%

 

[alternate]

When you're rackin' up the wins at the heady rate this team is, there's definitely no room to experiment! More Dowd, that's what I say. Keep this juggernaut rollin'.

So your position is there should be no accountability? If you are under a certain age, just keep throwing him back on the ice, regardless of effort and results. Unless of course its Linden Vey or Granlund or Pouliot...then they shouldn't get any playing time because consistency!

When it comes to Virtanen i give Green the benefit of the doubt. Jake is rebuilding his game and has taken some big strides. But his play has fallen off a bit of late. Getting a bird's eye view for a couple of games will hopefully help him refocus. I'm also on board witj Jake going to Utica to end the season if his play doesn't get back to where it was earlier in the season. His effort has improved, as has his 2 way play (recent play notwithstanding) but an opportunity to go down and get some production could be a good thing.

 

[Cupless44]

I agree with this 100%.

Given that Loui Eriksson and Markus Granlund are so gritty and tough to play against, (pumping in the goals too) and given that this team is fighting for prime position in the standings, these veteran players should never come out of the lineup. Only Jake needs to be held accountable.

 

[Cupless44]

I'd be eager to see him get more rope to sink-or-swim and ice time, and if you don't think he's ready send him down. But it remains a puzzling element how so many of the so-called vets can just suck and not produce/contribute yet have some extra lengthy room to keep on truckin'... When you run out of adequate good veterans you have to let your young guys try to fill those gaps. I don't see there being much opportunity for mistakes -- and of course i'm not factoring in mistakes made at practice, which may be a big part of Green's issues with Virtanen, Goldy etc.

Bingo.

Beyond stale and annoying to watch year after year of mediocre, soft, veteran players that do not score much, rarely make impact on a game, invisible effort at times get to play game after game with no consequences.

Can never figure out why this perennial 28th place team is the toughest line up in the NHL for a young player to crack and get ice time.

 

[Nucker101]

I support this 1000%

I support you 100%

 

[Krnuckfan]

Sick of this "hard to play against" bs and the double standard when it comes to applying it on veterans versus young players.

How the hell are guys like Eriksson Gagner any hard to play against?

 

[Cupless44]

Sick of this "hard to play against" bs and the double standard when it comes to applying it on veterans versus young players.

How the hell are guys like Eriksson Gagner any hard to play against?

Come on they are not in the line up to be hard to play against, it is for their prolific scoring. 13 goals for 9.5 million

 

[Jyrki21]

So your position is there should be no accountability? If you are under a certain age, just keep throwing him back on the ice, regardless of effort and results. Unless of course its Linden Vey or Granlund or Pouliot...then they shouldn't get any playing time because consistency!

I think not letting someone play after they have made a mistake they weren’t trying to make is a poor way of teaching, personally, and runs against how improvement occurs in most other lines of work. It’s particularly troublig when you have the benefit of a lost season where the game results don’t matter. How else is a guy going to get better than to play competitive games?

The case against playing other guys less isn’t about “accountability”, it’s that you already more or less know what they bring to the table and in most cases there isn’t much of a development rationale.

 

[alternate]

Has JV been benched for making a mistake? I dont think he has. He's been scratched due to effectiveness on the ice, a decision i have no issues with. I know we live in an era of instant gratification, but Virtanen is still relatively young and still developing. Decisions should be based on what kind of player Jake will be at 25, not about appeasing fans such as yourself that can't see past the end of your nose.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I think the point is that if we're talking about scratching guys for being ineffective, then there's a bunch of guys who could use some time on the bench (or the pressbox frankly).

Easy to play against??? That's most of this team. How about we hold every player to the same standards??? Okay, possible exception for ineffective, easy to play against vets who will one day have their numbers hanging in our rafters. That's only 2 guys.

What exactly has Sam Gagner, just to name one, done to deserve a veteran exception to the standards Jake is being held to??? He's been around longer ??? He's already failed so many times there's no point sending him a message ??? What kind of message does that send to the young players ?

 

[Cupless44]

eriksson

I think the point is that if we're talking about scratching guys for being ineffective, then there's a bunch of guys who could use some time on the bench (or the pressbox frankly).

Easy to play against??? That's most of this team. How about we hold every player to the same standards??? Okay, possible exception for ineffective, easy to play against vets who will one day have their numbers hanging in our rafters. That's only 2 guys.

What exactly has Sam Gagner, just to name one, done to deserve a veteran exception to the standards Jake is being held to??? He's been around longer ??? He's already failed so many times there's no point sending him a message ??? What kind of message does that send to the young players ?

How about Eriksson? one goal in 21 games. Couldnt be much easier to play against. Could care less if he kills penalties. Actually giving Virtanen a chance on the PK with his speed might help his overall game

 

[Jyrki21]

Has JV been benched for making a mistake? I dont think he has. He's been scratched due to effectiveness on the ice, a decision i have no issues with. I know we live in an era of instant gratification, but Virtanen is still relatively young and still developing. Decisions should be based on what kind of player Jake will be at 25, not about appeasing fans such as yourself that can't see past the end of your nose.

How, exactly, will he become more effective by not playing?

And guys routinely get benched in games for doing something the coach doesn't like.

 

[alternate]

• How, exactly, will he become more effective by not playing?

And guys routinely get benched in games for doing something the coach doesn't like.

How, exactly? As long as we understand we are talking about a couple of games, not extended stays in the press box. For one, there's a message sent to a young player. My feeling towards Green is that he's a pretty good communicator and he wouldn't have just scratched JV, but would have given him some reasons as to why.

Next, JV gets to watch the games, focusing on what Green has told him he needs to work on. I'm sure there was some video work done leading up to the game, and Green would have told him "watch how player x does this, and how player y does that."

There's also just a change, which can bump a player out of a rut. Remember, Virtanen is still very much a work in progress. Sitting out a couple of games when his play has slipped a bit isn't necessarily a bad thing.

On the other hand, spoon feeding minutes to a young player -- especially a young player with some of the effort/entitlement issues Jake comes with -- is ALWAYS a bad idea. Rewarding behaviour is the most successful way to influence it...when the rewards (ice time, offensive situations) comes regardless of whether it's earned, it creates habits that don't just go away.

So now you tell me how, exactly, giving a young player minutes his play doesn't warrant (not talking about making a mistake here, but engagement and effort which imo has slipped with Jake of late) benefits the player individually, and the bench as a whole?

 

[elitepete]

Given that Loui Eriksson and Markus Granlund are so gritty and tough to play against, (pumping in the goals too) and given that this team is fighting for prime position in the standings, these veteran players should never come out of the lineup. Only Jake needs to be held accountable.

Lol where does it say those 2 should stay in the lineup?

Jake doesn’t play the right way, he gets benched/scratched.

 

[Ryp37]

Gotta be the softest “power forward” in the league, ridiculous how small he looks out there

 

[Intangibos]

I can't think of any words that describe him that rhyme with his name on the same level as "Soft as Butter Sutter"

What is Finland's problem? Ruining our name games

 

[ProstheticConscience]

At this point, Jake has to look a LONG way up to see Jim Sandlak's stats from the same point in his career.

Let that sink in.

 

[Josepho]

As much hate as Eriksson gets, he's still playing above a 0.5 P/G pace.

He is miles better than Virtanen at this point and scratching him over Jake would be asinine.