Player Discussion Jake Virtanen | Jake It Or Break It Edition

[Zippgunn]

With every game that I watch he seems more and more like Michael Grabner...

 

[nucksflailtogether]

I'm seeing a 20-25 goal scorer at his peak (25-30 ) that brings a sustainable physical game but prone to boneheaded mistakes from time to time. Honestly not that much less than I would expect from a 6th OA. Very happy to see his recent development.

 

[VanJack]

Can't overstate enough that the Canucks are playing a system under Green that just seems to suit Virtanen.....also important to stress just how important that season under Green in Utica has been to his development...even when he wasn't scoring, he was learning the pro game....Green seems to know exactly what he's capable of, and expects it from him night after night....when Virtanen doesn't 'bring it', Green just reduces his ice=time.

People still compare him to Jannick Hansen and Jack Skille, but his ceiling is far higher than that imo. I keep thinking 'Shane Doan', another WHL power forward who didn't crack 10 goals his first three seasons in the NHL. I think that might be a more appropriate comparison.

 

[Canucks1096]

Can't overstate enough that the Canucks are playing a system under Green that just seems to suit Virtanen.....also important to stress just how important that season under Green in Utica has been to his development...even when he wasn't scoring, he was learning the pro game....Green seems to know exactly what he's capable of, and expects it from him night after night....when Virtanen doesn't 'bring it', Green just reduces his ice=time.

People still compare him to Jannick Hansen and Jack Skille, but his ceiling is far higher than that imo. I keep thinking 'Shane Doan', another WHL power forward who didn't crack 10 goals his first three seasons in the NHL. I think that might be a more appropriate comparison.

Doan was a lot higher scorer in the chl. Also Doan in his 3rd professional
season he over ppg in the AHL as well. Virtanen had 19 points in 65 AHL games. A player that didn't dominate the chl or produce in the AHL dont usually become Shane Doan. There are some exception like Lucic and Simmonds but those players made impact a young age in the nhl.

I see Virtanen as a 25 to 35 point guy. If you watch him to play he has one game and that's it. Carry the puck with speed either let a long shot on net or try to bring it to the net. There is no other game he has because lacks hockey sense/creativity.

 

[Canucks1096]

I'm seeing a 20-25 goal scorer at his peak (25-30 ) that brings a sustainable physical game but prone to boneheaded mistakes from time to time. Honestly not that much less than I would expect from a 6th OA. Very happy to see his recent development.

What has he shown for you to think he will become a 25 to 30 goal scorer?

 

[nucksflailtogether]

What has he shown for you to think he will become a 25 to 30 goal scorer?

Poorly worded by me. I think his peak will be 25-30 years old when he really figures out how to slow the game down, use his size and speed. We've seen other power forwards struggle when they get into the league and peak a little later. Kesler comes to mind...I remember well that we thought of him as a 10-15 goal scorer due to lack of hockey IQ, I remember when he first decided to start cutting to the net and buying himself more space. A lot of it reminds me of Virtanen (let me add I don't believe his ceiling is close to Kesler's, but the comparison still stands)

But still 15-25 goals and 40-50 points is a conservative guess at his peak IMO. I mean he's on pace for 10 goals with crap linemates and fairly low ice time. He just retooled his game down in the AHL and is starting to figure it out at the NHL pace. He's shown nothing but improvement this year. I don't blame fans for wanting to damper their expectations with our crap history, but I do think he's found a situation he can succeed in under Green.

Imagine if we had a real defense and spent more time in the O-zone, and he could develop his net crashing game rather than having to rush the puck up the ice every time. I think patience is our best asset at this point with JV. I also think a lot of the reason we're hard on him is because of who we passed up to take him, which in my humble opinion is utterly irrelevant to the discussion of his development as a player.

 

[Canucks1096]

Poorly worded by me. I think his peak will be 25-30 years old when he really figures out how to slow the game down, use his size and speed. We've seen other power forwards struggle when they get into the league and peak a little later. Kesler comes to mind...I remember well that we thought of him as a 10-15 goal scorer due to lack of hockey IQ, I remember when he first decided to start cutting to the net and buying himself more space. A lot of it reminds me of Virtanen (let me add I don't believe his ceiling is close to Kesler's, but the comparison still stands)

But still 15-25 goals and 40-50 points is a conservative guess at his peak IMO. I mean he's on pace for 10 goals with crap linemates and fairly low ice time. He just retooled his game down in the AHL and is starting to figure it out at the NHL pace. He's shown nothing but improvement this year. I don't blame fans for wanting to damper their expectations with our crap history, but I do think he's found a situation he can succeed in under Green.

Imagine if we had a real defense and spent more time in the O-zone, and he could develop his net crashing game rather than having to rush the puck up the ice every time. I think patience is our best asset at this point with JV. I also think a lot of the reason we're hard on him is because of who we passed up to take him, which in my humble opinion is utterly irrelevant to the discussion of his development as a player.

Virtanen has 9 points in 33 games. 2016 season he had 13 points in 55 games. So is pace about 14 points in the same amount of games. So not sure how he is improving. 4 or 5 of his points came with the Sedins. So top players and non top players his production is not much of a difference. When Virtanen played with the Sedins he was over 60% offensive zone starts and didn't do much with it.

Kesler was able 30 goals as a 20 year in the minors. So he did show potential to put the puck in net. Virtanen hasn't.

I think Virtanen going forward will play better with non top 6 guys. Because doesn't have much hockey sense read off of his linemates and doesnt know where to go on ice. With non top 6 guys Virtanen can carry the puck and bring it to the net and keep the game more simple. The Shaeks was probably his best game and played with Dowd and Gaunce I think

 

[rune74]

Virtanen has 9 points in 33 games. 2016 season he had 13 points in 55 games. So is pace about 14 points in the same amount of games. So not sure how he is improving. 4 or 5 of his points came with the Sedins. So top players and non top players his production is not much of a difference. When Virtanen played with the Sedins he was over 60% offensive zone starts and didn't do much with it.

Kesler was able 30 goals as a 20 year in the minors. So he did show potential to put the puck in net. Virtanen hasn't.

I think Virtanen going forward will play better with non top 6 guys. Because doesn't have much hockey sense read off of his linemates and doesnt know where to go on ice. With non top 6 guys Virtanen can carry the puck and bring it to the net and keep the game more simple. The Shaeks was probably his best game and played with Dowd and Gaunce I think

The problem with this is you are not looking at the difference in how he has been used. This year he has been getting 4th line minutes(even less then that some games).

Compared to other players on the 4th line he is doing a lot better.

 

[LeftCoast]

If Jake keeps playing the way he has been the ice time and points will come - I think he was double shifted at points in the St. Louis game. He back checks hard, he is pretty much the only forward who can bring as physical game and his speed could be disruptive with slightly better linemates.

 

[supercanuck]

For some reason I was watching highlights of the "10 point game" for the Jake/Bo/Sven line. Obviously it was just a preseason game against the Oilers in 2015, but made some confident, clean passes and went to the net. Also that same preseason he laid the big hit on McDavid. He just seems like a different player now.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

For some reason I was watching highlights of the "10 point game" for the Jake/Bo/Sven line. Obviously it was just a preseason game against the Oilers in 2015, but made some confident, clean passes and went to the net. Also that same preseason he laid the big hit on McDavid. He just seems like a different player now.

I remember watching that game and being utterly amazed how Willie D broke that line up the next game. Your whole career as a coach you just pray you hit a combo that can catch lightning in a bottle, this guy finds one and goes: "Ehhhhh...we'll see somewhere down the line." Still can't believe he did that to this day.

 

[Grub]

Ok lets face it, Virtanen is a bust.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

thinking optimistically about this player....I think he might be able to help Utica in the future

 

[M2Beezy]

thinking optimistically about this player....I think he might be able to help Utica in the future

Maybe recheck his 2016-17 Utica stats. He aint gonna help em

 

[DL44]

Are we pretending his good games this year didnt happen now?

He'll string em together eventually.

 

[rune74]

Are we pretending his good games this year didnt happen now?

He'll string em together eventually.

That bad game has done that. Is he a bust for a 6 oa? Sure, but what's gained from hammering on that? But he is an NHL player at this point. He is only 21 and still has a lot of potential still. I have seen some good things this year from him and I don't think I'm alone.

 

[DL44]

Some Great things... he'll be a beast in couple yrs.
His next team will reap the benefits.

 

[PG Canuck]

Ok lets face it, Virtanen is a bust.

Everyone has faced that reality, it’s just how big of a bust is he going to be aka will he even be a helpful NHL player for us

 

[PG Canuck]

Until Virtanen gets some offensive hockey IQ he won’t be a beast.

 

[Cupless44]

A perennial bottom 5 team should still not be sitting 21 year old Virtanen over a useless group of veteran forwards who score a 5 on 5 goal every blue moon.

 

[Nucker101]

Some Great things... he'll be a beast in couple yrs.
His next team will reap the benefits.

Still find it weird that he from seemingly loving the physical game to almost being afraid of it. It’s not like he was one of those typical jr players who weighed 190 pounds is too small to do the same to NHL’ers.

 

[DL44]

Still find it weird that he from seemingly loving the physical game to almost being afraid of it. It’s not like he was one of those typical jr players who weighed 190 pounds is too small to do the same to NHL’ers.

Rotator cuffs don't care how big the rest of your body is.

Saw him a couple games ago go in for a rub out of hit, but weirdly turned his body to switch the shoulder contact. Said it before the season... he can't play physical all the time if he wishes to play for multiple contracts.

 

[Nucker101]

Rotator cuffs don't care how big the rest of your body is.

Then I don’t think he’s going to be a beast in this league. A significant part of what made him an exciting prospect was that he’d be feared on the forecheck, like Evander Kane is.

 

[PM]

The worst part is he had the shoulder issues before we drafted him. Can't chalk this one up to Canucks Luck, it's purely Canucks Stupidity.

 

[Jyrki21]

A perennial bottom 5 team should still not be sitting 21 year old Virtanen over a useless group of veteran forwards who score a 5 on 5 goal every blue moon.

But coaches like guys where “they know what they’re getting”... even if it’s not good and doesn’t contribute to victory.

In short, coaches are sometimes kind of dumb.