Jake Gardiner 2.0 - More beast than man now, I am afraid...

[thewave]

Jake had a half way decent game last night and seems to be sorting it out. We can only hope to have both Rielly and Jake playing at their honest bests into the POs. I feel this team could be quite dangerous with four functioning and competent D. That's even with the absence of a top 10 defender in the world.

What does Babcock see in Polak though. Carrick is so much better.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Jake had a half way decent game last night and seems to be sorting it out. We can only hope to have both Rielly and Jake playing at their honest bests into the POs. I feel this team could be quite dangerous with four functioning and competent D. That's even with the absence of a top 10 defender in the world.

What does Babcock see in Polak though. Carrick is so much better.

That fact he was smacking MT around makes me happy. Outbattled him in-front the net a few times.

I feel like Gardiner hates giving up possesson of the puck so when he is faced with the option to clear it off the boards (like Rielly and Hainsey have done to great effect) or make a risky pass / try to skate himself free he always picks the later.

When he is on his game and able to make those passes / rushes consistently he looks amazing. When he is off his game and those passes or rushes result in turnovers he looks awful. Seems to be all a confidence thing

 

[hotpaws]

That fact he was smacking MT around makes me happy. Outbattled him in-front the net a few times.

I feel like Gardiner hates giving up possesson of the puck so when he is faced with the option to clear it off the boards (like Rielly and Hainsey have done to great effect) or make a risky pass / try to skate himself free he always picks the later.

When he is on his game and able to make those passes / rushes consistently he looks amazing. When he is off his game and those passes or rushes result in turnovers he looks awful. Seems to be all a confidence thing

more like a low iq thing ,

he doesn't seem able to learn what the best play to make is , everyone makes mistakes and gets beat but with Gards it's doing things that leave you scratching your head like wtf was he thinking

 

[thewave]

more like a low iq thing ,

he doesn't seem able to learn what the best play to make is , everyone makes mistakes and gets beat but with Gards it's doing things that leave you scratching your head like wtf was he thinking

The low IQ argument is the lowest hanging fruit argument. I really wish you and others would stop using it because it doesn't really describe whats going on at all. How can he have simply raised his IQ for the whole last half of last season and into the POs? Is IQ on a fader? Does it dither? You see how erroneous this explanation is?

He is inconsistent would be the appropriate way to describe what Jake is. Low IQ would be Polak as he consistently plays a game where he takes penalties and ices the puck as he finds himself in self created jams.

 

[hotpaws]

The low IQ argument is the lowest hanging fruit argument. I really wish you and others would stop using it because it doesn't really describe whats going on at all. How can he have simply raised his IQ for the whole last half of last season and into the POs? Is IQ on a fader? Does it dither? You see how erroneous this explanation is?

He is inconsistent would be the appropriate way to describe what Jake is. Low IQ would be Polak as he consistently plays a game where he takes penalties and ices the puck as he finds himself in self created jams.

and why do you believe he's still so inconsistent ?

even when he's playing well he still does things that leave you believing he has a low hockey iq , it seems his good play has to do with usage and sheltering him more than anything else

 

[thewave]

and why do you believe he's still so inconsistent ?

even when he's playing well he still does things that leave you believing he has a low hockey iq , it seems his good play has to do with usage and sheltering him more than anything else

Last year he was moved up to take on top competition. He has in the past elevated his game near the ends of seasons and even helped guys like Dion look better. He makes errors, he certainly has inconsistent starts for sure to his seasons. How can anyone explain his hockey IQ being elevated for such long stretches or during PO competition?

He just isn't a low IQ player. Consistency is his problem and I don't mean because he makes a mistake. You can watch Doughty, E.K or any top defender make mistakes like Jake all year long if you just start watching other teams games with a focus on them. Jake has some pretty bad starts to his years and if you look at the date of the original Jake thread calling him a beast from last year, it took until January.

First 30 Jake games is like watching a chain failure but after that he seems to get it together somehow. Why this is? I have no idea.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Last year he was moved up to take on top competition. He has in the past elevated his game near the ends of seasons and even helped guys like Dion look better. He makes errors, he certainly has inconsistent starts for sure to his seasons. How can anyone explain his hockey IQ being elevated for such long stretches or during PO competition?

He just isn't a low IQ player. Consistency is his problem and I don't mean because he makes a mistake. You can watch Doughty, E.K or any top defender make mistakes like Jake all year long if you just start watching other teams games with a focus on them. Jake has some pretty bad starts to his years and if you look at the date of the original Jake thread calling him a beast from last year, it took until January.

First 30 Jake games is like watching a chain failure but after that he seems to get it together somehow. Why this is? I have no idea.

The more intense other teams play, the better Gardiner does. It gives him less time and space to think and forces him to play purely on instinct.

His instincts are great and he has the skillset to execute on them. He's either slow or bad at thinking a play through however. Most of his visible mistakes come against a forecheck where he's already had the puck under control for a few seconds and looked for passing lanes/set plays. If that same forechecker comes at him when he just gets the puck, he's a few spin moves away from being up the ice on an odd-man rush.

 

[Mr Hockey]

He's gone soon, he is nice to watch fart around with the puck in stress free situation, but that's about it.

 

[mapleleaf979]

more like a low iq thing ,

he doesn't seem able to learn what the best play to make is , everyone makes mistakes and gets beat but with Gards it's doing things that leave you scratching your head like wtf was he thinking

Its not low IQ. Watch him vs the Bruins in the playoffs. Watch him vs Washington in the playoffs. Gardiner has the highest IQ of any Dman, on the team when is he is 100% dialed in. He is un-predicable as a puck carrier and the D cant read what he is going to do next, and they panic and break down. Problem is, he lacks constant focus, it appears he is daydreaming of other things and disengaged in the play. Make no mistake a dialed in Gardiner shows very good hockey IQ. Connor Carrick has the lowest IQ for Dmen on this team, poor instincts under pressure that are impossible to remove.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Its not low IQ. Watch him vs the Bruins in the playoffs. Watch him vs Washington in the playoffs. Gardiner has the highest IQ of any Dman, on the team when is he is 100% dialed in. He is un-predicable as a puck carrier and the D cant read what he is going to do next, and they panic and break down. Problem is, he lacks constant focus, it appears he is daydreaming of other things and disengaged in the play. Make no mistake a dialed in Gardiner shows very good hockey IQ. Connor Carrick has the lowest IQ for Dmen on this team, poor instincts under pressure that are impossible to remove.

This is how Jake plays defense lol, he is lost/clueless... Isolate him on the video...Ovie scared the living shit out of him never mind bringing up players either lol

 

[Maple Leaf]

I wonder if Leafs are smart enough to trade Gardiner
Addition by subtraction
Call up Dermott
Defense fixed
Kinda

 

[thewave]

I wonder if Leafs are smart enough to trade Gardiner
Addition by subtraction
Call up Dermott
Defense fixed
Kinda

I don't understand how unproven anything fixes any perceived problems.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I don't understand how unproven anything fixes any perceived problems.

The problem is Gardiner's bonehead plays
Get rid of him, problem solved

 

[Damisoph]

The problem is Gardiner's bonehead plays
Get rid of him, problem solved

I would love to have such a simplistic view of the world.

 

[yubbers]

Whenever he touches the puck I say his name like Matt Damon in Team America

 

[diceman934]

I don't understand how unproven anything fixes any perceived problems.

Gardiner is not the issue. Yes he makes mistakes but the fact we lack a right shot D man who can think and make reads is an issue. Like Hunwick the last few year he played to much and Polak as well. Zaitsev needs to be moved Down to 3rd pair as this would see an immediate improvement in our D pairings and see Gardiner become the solid 2nd pair D man that he is.

I see us making a move for a D man and changes in our Pairings. Many on here think it would be Gardiner moving down when it will be his partner.

After Christmas I can see minutes that Rielly plays increasing and you may see him play some more minutes on the right side as he did in the playoffs last year. You can see that even now Rielly is playing the right side more and more depending on the speed of the winger he is facing.

Let’s hope that we get a right shot D man under our Christmas tree this year.

I love our chances this year when the playoffs come. Our roster will have at least 3 different players.

 

[thewave]

Gardiner is not the issue. Yes he makes mistakes but the fact we lack a right shot D man who can think and make reads is an issue. Like Hunwick the last few year he played to much and Polak as well. Zaitsev needs to be moved Down to 3rd pair as this would see an immediate improvement in our D pairings and see Gardiner become the solid 2nd pair D man that he is.

I see us making a move for a D man and changes in our Pairings. Many on here think it would be Gardiner moving down when it will be his partner.

After Christmas I can see minutes that Rielly plays increasing and you may see him play some more minutes on the right side as he did in the playoffs last year. You can see that even now Rielly is playing the right side more and more depending on the speed of the winger he is facing.

Let’s hope that we get a right shot D man under our Christmas tree this year.

I love our chances this year when the playoffs come. Our roster will have at least 3 different players.

Z doesn't get his fair share of criticism that is for sure. Jake has been a whole level of sloppy on his own though if I am being honest. He has also been better the past couple games. You may be right about Z moving down and it would make the most sense.

You're probably right. I don't think we are getting anything for Christmas though.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I would be interested in seeing what San Jose want for Braun.

A top 6 of:

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Braun
Borgman-Zaitsev

Looks a lot more balanced and pretty decent to be honest

 

[Tak7]

Gardiner's best performances in a Leaf jersey, have been in the 2013 and the 2017 playoffs.

When the game is fast, and he's playing off of impulse, he can be very good.

When he has more time to think, that's when he seems to get himself into trouble.

It's crazy how a guy with that much skill and ability, can have so many headscratching moments.

 

[thewave]

Gardiner's best performances in a Leaf jersey, have been in the 2013 and the 2017 playoffs.

When the game is fast, and he's playing off of impulse, he can be very good.

When he has more time to think, that's when he seems to get himself into trouble.

It's crazy how a guy with that much skill and ability, can have so many headscratching moments.

Some people function better under pressure where they just have to rely mostly on making snap decisions or basically using their instincts. It's not all that uncommon really. It suggests he is actually really highly intelligent.

Genius plagued by indecision. How common is that

 

[6ix]

I'm over Jake Gardiner. Talented but doesn't learn from his mistakes and too laid back,

 

[Ratboy]

Jake's an idiot.

What could we get for him?

 

[Bluelines]

Gardiner's best performances in a Leaf jersey, have been in the 2013 and the 2017 playoffs.

When the game is fast, and he's playing off of impulse, he can be very good.

When he has more time to think, that's when he seems to get himself into trouble.

It's crazy how a guy with that much skill and ability, can have so many headscratching moments.

Some see the Jake that you say likes a fast pace, others see the Jake we see in the video a few post above yours. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Tak7]

Some see the Jake that you say likes a fast pace, others see the Jake we see in the video a few post above yours. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If we are basing a player's quality on one shift, sure.

I mean, I could show you an Auston Matthews shift from game 1 of that series and conclude the same thing.

 

[diceman934]

If we are basing a player's quality on one shift, sure.

I mean, I could show you an Auston Matthews shift from game 1 of that series and conclude the same thing.

Watch that Video again and watch Hunwick with remembering that we were playing a man on man D zone system and watch how many times Hunwick stayed with his man and then left him or left his man to engage one that was already marked. Your opinion will change when understanding what we were attempting to do. Not saying that Gardiner was perfect but we likely clear the puck if Hunwick does not freelance. Not to mention Brown who was lost.