I see his trip down the yellow brick road has yet to bear fruit.
Jake Gardiner 2.0 - More beast than man now, I am afraid...
- Thread starter thewave
- Start date
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
thewave
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2011
- 40,333
- 10,205
We have all known now for some time that Jake is not a 1, neither is Mo. When these guys aren't playing well we are paying the price and neither of them have ever been a reliable go to defender. The bigger concern is how our forwards get exploited by big defensive teams. They have our number and Babs is going to need to do more shifting.
Barilko14
Registered User
I had my pitchfork out, but I've put it away.
I agree with your assessment of Jake. The problem is with our top pairing having no actual top pairing Dmen, Jake gets relied upon more here and is key player on our team, so when he really struggles it has a major impact in that game or games.
I'm getting to the point that I'm not sure a team with Rielly & Jake as your top 2 LD can be considered a true contender unless there is a legit #1 RD slotted in there.
The other problem I see is, with Jake getting prime PP minutes, and producing points at a good rate, he's going to be in a good bargaining position when it's time to negotiate his next contract.
With the upcoming cap crunch we can't afford to pay a "very good #3 or #4 dman" $6M per year.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
He's started slow every full season he's played in the NHL, and this year he for the first time doesn't start out playing easy minutes, so it's not surprising he ends up looking worse than usual.
If he can consistently look as he did last half of last season through games 30-82+, I don't honestly care how he looks through games 1-29. That's an asset.
If he can consistently look as he did last half of last season through games 30-82+, I don't honestly care how he looks through games 1-29. That's an asset.
TheMadHatTrick
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2008
- 6,709
- 2,785
I've always defended Jake when I thought he's gotten unfair criticism, but I've also called him out when it's been deserved. This probably the worst I've ever seen him. He looks like he's forgotten how to play hockey all of a sudden out of nowhere. We really need him to figure it out or make a trade for someone cause we've lost the majority of our games when he's not been playing well.
Ratboy
I made a funny!
- Jul 15, 2009
- 16,855
- 3,343
He's kind of just, stupid.
I think that's all there is to it.
I think that's all there is to it.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 78,811
- 53,486
Two theories about Gardiner.
1) Gardiner plays pretty well when it's a seven game playoff series and there's repetition in the opponent and it's a high pressure situation. Seems to find an extra gear and level of focus. He seems to really, really struggle at times with focus during the long regular season.
2) He's a brilliant skater and obviously very talented offensive, but there's something about the way he pivots plus the way he stickhandles with his hands at the top of the stick means he's often coming up the ice on a weird angle to the play and doesn't protect the puck as much as guys who bear down.
1) Gardiner plays pretty well when it's a seven game playoff series and there's repetition in the opponent and it's a high pressure situation. Seems to find an extra gear and level of focus. He seems to really, really struggle at times with focus during the long regular season.
2) He's a brilliant skater and obviously very talented offensive, but there's something about the way he pivots plus the way he stickhandles with his hands at the top of the stick means he's often coming up the ice on a weird angle to the play and doesn't protect the puck as much as guys who bear down.
Duke Silver
Truce?
It's not just one play, he's been very, very bad basically every game this year. He's certainly not playing like a "very good #3 or #4 dman", he's been playing like a train wreck who shouldn't be in the NHL at all.
I've been a fan of his game for a long time, and thought he took a big step forward last year, was playing smarter and looked like a good 2nd pair dman. But something is up this year, it's not just the odd game, he's been playing very distracted, very sloppy hockey every night. I hope he can turn it around, because we've seen him play well before, but this has been a very poor start for Gards. IMO Babs needs to bench him for a few games, maybe even longer, to try to wake him up.
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
Nithoniniel
Registered User
It's interesting that Weaver on Leafs Lunch, who normally rag on Gardiner more than pretty much anyone, completely laid the brunt of blame for the first goal elsewhere. He was basically saying that Gardiner fell, it happens, and after that he's in a tough position. Polak, meanwhile, was way out of position, as he should have come in to the middle of the ice with Gardiner up towards the boards, and should have been ready to back Gardiner up rather than think offense first.
That ties into what I've mentioned about Polak in the previous games. His value as is at even strength is to be a safety blanket for a more offensive minded partner, but he's been really aggressive in trying to jump up and take chances. I've caught him numerous times being way out of position trying to jump a play and create a turnover high in the neutral zone, which has ended up with him just being completely lost instead. That's not good, that's not him playing his role.
Weaver also criticized the forwards a bit, but I don't know if I agree there. We had the breakout under control. I do think that's been an issue for us though. Even with the puck-carrying defender under pressure, our forwards seem to be thinking about how to get into the offensive zone. We need to play through the situations, and we don't. The whole team can't try to quick strike on possession switches every time.
I don't often agree with Weaver, but he definitely knows his stuff when it comes to defensive play, so that's where I listen intently.
That ties into what I've mentioned about Polak in the previous games. His value as is at even strength is to be a safety blanket for a more offensive minded partner, but he's been really aggressive in trying to jump up and take chances. I've caught him numerous times being way out of position trying to jump a play and create a turnover high in the neutral zone, which has ended up with him just being completely lost instead. That's not good, that's not him playing his role.
Weaver also criticized the forwards a bit, but I don't know if I agree there. We had the breakout under control. I do think that's been an issue for us though. Even with the puck-carrying defender under pressure, our forwards seem to be thinking about how to get into the offensive zone. We need to play through the situations, and we don't. The whole team can't try to quick strike on possession switches every time.
I don't often agree with Weaver, but he definitely knows his stuff when it comes to defensive play, so that's where I listen intently.
The Best Leafs Ever
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2017
- 2,147
- 781
Gardiner could've just kept the puck along the boards so that players will have to at least come there in order to get the puck but he had to just pass it right to the player who was rushing down the middle. How can you blame anyone else but Gardiner in that regards? Polak is also a human and he obviously didn't know that Gardiner would tumble for such a simple pass and turn it over like that, maybe he was going for a change since the bench was on the other side. Who knows?
Critical13
Fear is the mind-killer.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Doesn't matter what Gardiner is about to do. Polak needs to be in the middle of the ice with some depth regardless. It's a simple job, and he screwed it up. That's worse than misplaying the puck when you're sitting in your ass.
If Polak goes for a change before the puck is out of his own zone, he is again screwing up on a very simple concept. Change when the puck is far from your end.
Weaver had a long NHL career despite being small, slow, and with no puck skills to speak of, because he excelled at knowing things like the above, positioning and defensive reads. There are probably few better able to break down things like that than him. He also tends to rant against Gardiner whenever he gets the chance, so it's rather telling when he for once defends him.
Duke Silver
Truce?
It's the weak one-handed stick checks and easily getting bodied off the puck that drives me crazy. When you have the puck, you're not worried about what Gardiner's going to do to you to get it back. He's not hard on the puck. At all.
Gardiner with the puck on his stick and space to skate: valuable asset.
Pretty much any other time (without the puck, with the puck with pressure), he's frightening.
hes a veteran now ,and he makes young player mistakes ,but unless u have a no 4 type defenseman ready u cant move him ,
he will be a leaf after this year only if he will take less money and less term than zaitszev
ITM
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
- Jan 26, 2012
- 4,552
- 2,523
Nice to see Marner and Gardiner (and Andersen) round their respective corners...Throw in Komarov for good measure.
I've been a big critic of Gardiner's play to start the season. Really happy with his play over this win streak though, he's massively cut down the mistakes, and is playing with way more confidence. He's been playing like a quality top 4 dman recently, which makes a huge difference to our team. Keep it up Jake!
thewave
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2011
- 40,333
- 10,205
There is nothing to complain about now. Morgan is tidy and so is Jake and we're winning low scoring events. I even like Borgman and Carrick.
That's not because I stopped paying attention. They just got their acts together.
Keep in mind that Jake's development was stunted by Carlyle's idiotic coaching - make a mistake and you sit. Ridiculous way to handle a young defenceman on teams that were pretty much going nowhere.
He's a high-risk, high-reward player who really needs to make better decisions at this stage of his career. That said, I love watching him skate, and his stretch pass is one of the best in the league.
Hainsey's steady play has been a huge factor in Rielly's improvement. I think Gardiner would benefit similarly from the same type of partner, especially given his style of play
He's a high-risk, high-reward player who really needs to make better decisions at this stage of his career. That said, I love watching him skate, and his stretch pass is one of the best in the league.
Hainsey's steady play has been a huge factor in Rielly's improvement. I think Gardiner would benefit similarly from the same type of partner, especially given his style of play
For me, Jake is a neutral zone player... He is just a lost puppy in the d'zone under any kind of pressure, has no idea who his man is or where he should be or go lol He is not really an offensive threat surprisingly with his skill set... imo
