Speculation: Jack Eichel cont'd

[ORRFForever]

This is a pretty illogical take.

If Jack Eichel is a top 5, #1, Franchise C..... you don't trade him because you "MIGHT" have to pay 100k if a surgery goes wrong.

Paying for the surgery has nothing to do with trading Eichel.

(If you want to talk about the contract itself, that's a different issue, but nobody knows for sure about the details about insurance, contract and what happens if things go wrong... but I can at least buy that consideration as an argument).

$100K? More in the range of $30M- $40M. I was talking about the insurance on his salary.

 

[Djp]

This is a pretty illogical take.

If Jack Eichel is a top 5, #1, Franchise C..... you don't trade him because you "MIGHT" have to pay 100k if a surgery goes wrong.

Paying for the surgery has nothing to do with trading Eichel.

(If you want to talk about the contract itself, that's a different issue, but nobody knows for sure about the details about insurance, contract and what happens if things go wrong... but I can at least buy that consideration as an argument).

you obviously don’t comprehend how insurance works.

fact— buffalo insured the contract

fact— insurance isn’t required to cover the contract if he either doesn’t recover from experimental/ not recommended procedure and either never plays again or gets reinjured after returning.

ADR is experimental/ non recommended by doctors.

if Eichel wants ADR but he has to absorb the risk of losing money if he can’t play again or gets a reinjury of the surgical area.

 

[T REX]

you obviously don’t comprehend how insurance works.

fact— buffalo insured the contract

fact— insurance isn’t required to cover the contract if he either doesn’t recover from experimental/ not recommended procedure and either never plays again or gets reinjured after returning.

ADR is experimental/ non recommended by doctors.

if Eichel wants ADR but he has to absorb the risk of losing money if he can’t play again or gets a reinjury of the surgical area.

This has been mentioned 1000 times.

Why don't people understand.

Buffalo has too much to lose.

Eichel has zero leverage. None.

 

[socko]

I'll give you Marner if you agree to take Tavares too.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I'll give you Marner if you agree to take Tavares too.

Why not just do Eichel for Matthews, they have identical production this year

 

[DavidBL]

you obviously don’t comprehend how insurance works.

fact— buffalo insured the contract

fact— insurance isn’t required to cover the contract if he either doesn’t recover from experimental/ not recommended procedure and either never plays again or gets reinjured after returning.

ADR is experimental/ non recommended by doctors.

if Eichel wants ADR but he has to absorb the risk of losing money if he can’t play again or gets a reinjury of the surgical area.

As far as I can tell the bolded is conjecture not fact. The insurance contract would have to be published for it to be fact and as far as I know it's not. Unless you can point to a report that states sports contract insurance is void if certain treatments are used we cant call that statement fact.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Why not just do Eichel for Matthews, they have identical production this year

Oh boy.

 

[socko]

Why not just do Eichel for Matthews, they have identical production this year

That's a pretty good burn, but no deal. I'm offering the spoiled brat and the slow-motion robot. Take it or leave it.

 

[OG Eberle]

I'm NOT digging thru endless posts to find some source.

If you choose not to believe it, that fine.

If you can't take the 10s to find a source for a pretty bold claim you're making, probably best to either make it known it's your opinion vs a fact.

There's enough of these "zero source claims" in every day life. Don't need that creeping into HF either.

 

[OG Eberle]

For the record, one of the biggest issues with spinal fusion is how it limits your range of motion (ROM) post surgery. Depending on where and how many vertebrae are fused, it can severely limit someone for the rest of their life. Imagine not being able to drive anymore because you don't have the requisite ROM to do a shoulder check. Or having to turn your entire body to have a conversation with someone sitting next to you. Or being unable to bend over to tie your shoes. Etc...

This is as much about a quality of life beyond hockey as it is the ability to continue playing hockey.


Source: I'm a practicing physiotherapist and S&C coach of 10+yrs so happy to cite any research someone wants for this. I've also had spinal surgery myself so I know this song and dance personally... which is anecdotal evidence, but still worth something.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Mistake of wording on my part. Friedman said that all 5 teams that were interested in acquiring him would let him do the ADR surgery. It wasn't all other teams, it was all of the teams that were interested in acquiring him.

If you didn’t have eichel, and you only have to give up a sub-par package to get him…wouldn’t you be willing to let him get whatever surgery he wants and roll the dice?

 

[MarkusKetterer]

That's a pretty good burn, but no deal. I'm offering the spoiled brat and the slow-motion robot. Take it or leave it.

So spoiled brat for spoiled brat? Is the slow motion robot a spoiled brat too? If not, no deal!

 

[Dr Quincy]

you obviously don’t comprehend how insurance works.

fact— buffalo insured the contract

fact— insurance isn’t required to cover the contract if he either doesn’t recover from experimental/ not recommended procedure and either never plays again or gets reinjured after returning.

ADR is experimental/ non recommended by doctors.

if Eichel wants ADR but he has to absorb the risk of losing money if he can’t play again or gets a reinjury of the surgical area.

You obviously didn't read what the post I quoted to and responded to stated. The post stated that the Sabres wouldn't want to be responsible for paying for "the surgery"... maybe he meant contract, maybe he didn't, but he said surgery. If you think the Sabres are trading Jack Eichel because they don't want to pay for the surgery, you are delusionsal.

Fact: ADR is not experimental, and it is recommended by some doctors.

Fact: I didn't say that Eichel should be able to get the surgery he wants and have BUF on the hook, but you can argue that strawman if you want instead of responding to what I said.

Fact: I'm still waiting for a source that says insurance won't cover the contract... please post your source.

Fact: Please post the names of NHL players who have had cervical fusion surgery, other than Dorsett and Letang. Since this is 0 surgeries is "experimental and unproven", then 2 surgeries with 1 ending a players career can't be considered the safe route. So go ahead and tell me the 20 or 30 other NHL players who have gone on to have long careers after fusion.

 

[Volica]

Boy, Calgary’s started the season fairly strong; with his Lindholm is playing if you added Eichel this would be tough on teams.

I’ve heard the cost from the Flames end, I lean towards just paying it or something similar to it to make it happen.

 

[Djp]

You obviously didn't read what the post I quoted to and responded to stated. The post stated that the Sabres wouldn't want to be responsible for paying for "the surgery"... maybe he meant contract, maybe he didn't, but he said surgery. If you think the Sabres are trading Jack Eichel because they don't want to pay for the surgery, you are delusionsal.

Fact: ADR is not experimental, and it is recommended by some doctors.

Fact: I didn't say that Eichel should be able to get the surgery he wants and have BUF on the hook, but you can argue that strawman if you want instead of responding to what I said.

Fact: I'm still waiting for a source that says insurance won't cover the contract... please post your source.

Fact: Please post the names of NHL players who have had cervical fusion surgery, other than Dorsett and Letang. Since this is 0 surgeries is "experimental and unproven", then 2 surgeries with 1 ending a players career can't be considered the safe route. So go ahead and tell me the 20 or 30 other NHL players who have gone on to have long careers after fusion.

FACT —some doctors recommend taking cow dewormer…maybe that will work.

FACT health insurance won’t pay for some procedures if they feel it’s not necessary. Insurance wants Eichel to get back to playing so they are following doctor advice on getting fusion.

fusion has bern done on other pro athletes and they returned to play.

ADR works on patients who aren’t going to get high neck stress like a pro athlete. It works on regular folks who after doing it CANT do certain activities after surgery.

 

[tomd]

FACT —some doctors recommend taking cow dewormer…maybe that will work.

FACT health insurance won’t pay for some procedures if they feel it’s not necessary. Insurance wants Eichel to get back to playing so they are following doctor advice on getting fusion.

fusion has bern done on other pro athletes and they returned to play.

ADR works on patients who aren’t going to get high neck stress like a pro athlete. It works on regular folks who after doing it CANT do certain activities after surgery.

Everything you said after your first "fact" is meaningless since you got the first "fact" absolutely wrong. Sad.

 

[Dr Quincy]

FACT —some doctors recommend taking cow dewormer…maybe that will work.

FACT health insurance won’t pay for some procedures if they feel it’s not necessary. Insurance wants Eichel to get back to playing so they are following doctor advice on getting fusion.

fusion has bern done on other pro athletes and they returned to play.

ADR works on patients who aren’t going to get high neck stress like a pro athlete. It works on regular folks who after doing it CANT do certain activities after surgery.

Fact: ADR has bern done on other pro athletes and they returned to play.

You're right. Chris Weidman and don't have high neck stress.

Genius.

Your health insurance "fact" is meaningless since you have no idea if insurance would or wouldn't cover ADR.

If you do, post a source. I've already asked you once. If it's a "fact" you can post something in the CBA or SPC or some report that says Eichel's contract in particular wouldn't be covered.

All it takes is some proof... since it's a fact it shouldn't be trouble for you to provide.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Boy, Calgary’s started the season fairly strong; with his Lindholm is playing if you added Eichel this would be tough on teams.

I’ve heard the cost from the Flames end, I lean towards just paying it or something similar to it to make it happen.

What vost have you heard exactly? If it includes anyone on the current 1st line it should be an instant no. They are one of the hottest lines in the league right now

 

[Irie]

Fact: I'm still waiting for a source that says insurance won't cover the contract... please post your source.

I don't think the info has been released either way.

Earlier in the summer there was a report that Loyd's of London would not cover the contract in Eichel's scenario with regards to ADR, but the source was not even sure if they were the insurance holder, as that info was all confidential.

Eklund repeated the speculation, but he was not the original source, and no, I am not quoting Eklund, for what that is worth. I will try to find the original tonight or tomorrow when I get some free time.

It does make a ton of sense though. The insurance is on the hook for 34 million of the 50 million owed as of last summer. There is not an insurance company in the world that is going to honor a contract like that if the procedure fails and it was deemed unsafe by the doctor that the insurance company has designated to oversee the contract.

So while speculation, it is more than likely that there is some insurance questions associated with the ADR procedure that likely would effect the policy going forward if it was done. I would imagine that before the procedure would be approved, there would be some added premiums required before it would be OKed, if at all.

 

[ORRFForever]

If you can't take the 10s to find a source for a pretty bold claim you're making, probably best to either make it known it's your opinion vs a fact.

There's enough of these "zero source claims" in every day life. Don't need that creeping into HF either.

If it only takes 10 seconds, you go looking.

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

Buffalo gets
Nick schmaltz
Dysin Mayo
2021 2nd

AZ
Eichel
2021 3rd


Schmaltz comes in and steps in at center and Mayo is a D piece. Thoughts? Win win for both tanks.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Question: What happens if Jack just gets the ADR surgery himself? I’d assume that voids his remaining contract, he’s free to sign where he likes- I guess I don’t see why he wouldn’t just do that? Am I missing something? Sure, he’d likely lose a big chunk of change, but how many tens of millions do you need if you get a surgery that f***s up your quality of life? If he’s really confident in it and is really concerned about fusion- seems the only route for him at this point. What am I missing? How could the Sabres stop him?

 

[Irie]

Delete - double post

 

[Irie]

Question: What happens if Jack just gets the ADR surgery himself? I’d assume that voids his remaining contract, he’s free to sign where he likes- I guess I don’t see why he wouldn’t just do that? Am I missing something? Sure, he’d likely lose a big chunk of change, but how many tens of millions do you need if you get a surgery that f***s up your quality of life? If he’s really confident in it and is really concerned about fusion- seems the only route for him at this point. What am I missing? How could the Sabres stop him?

If he got the surgery the club he signed with would be unable to insure his new contract. (See Horton contract for reference)

There are not a lot of teams that would sign him to another 50 million dollar deal that could not be insured. He might have to take a 1 year prove it deal, and if he can't play at the same level, or he gets hurt again, he may never get another big contract like that.

So yes, he could do that, but he risks losing 4o million dollars if he did.

 

[jay from jersey]

Fact

FACT —some doctors recommend taking cow dewormer…maybe that will work.

FACT health insurance won’t pay for some procedures if they feel it’s not necessary. Insurance wants Eichel to get back to playing so they are following doctor advice on getting fusion.

fusion has bern done on other pro athletes and they returned to play.

ADR works on patients who aren’t going to get high neck stress like a pro athlete. It works on regular folks who after doing it CANT do certain activities after surgery.[/QUOTE
Fact different doctors have different opinions when dealing from patient to patient. There are no 2 cases that are ever identically the same, even though certain injuries main be measured on the same baseline to begin the recovery/corrective action.
Also, the so called horse Dewormer won the Nobel prize for helping the health of humans

Fact -different doctors have different opinions when dealing from patient to patient. There are no 2 cases that are ever identically the same, even though certain injuries main be measured on the same baseline to begin the recovery/corrective action.
Also, the so called horse Dewormer won the Nobel prize for helping the health of humans from Certain types of cancer, to certain types of fever and has resulted in success when used. Obviously, hence the Nobel prize .
However, sound bites like “Horse Dewormer” or “veterinary drug” continue to be a beta cuck talking points.