Speculation: Jack Eichel cont'd

[DavidBL]

First, not every other team is willing to let him have his surgery. From most reports, the vast majority would require fusion.

A handful of teams said they would allow ADR but talk is cheap.

Second, the Pagula aren't willing to burn $30-$40M in lost insurance to make Eichel happy. You wouldn't either.

How many teams are even interested in Eichel regardless of the surgery? Its not like 31 teams want him and only 5 are willing to do ADR. How many teams have actually been rumored? 10?

 

[AGENTHARRY]

Let's be honest the surgery is just an excuse It was his get out of Buffalo card without looking bad If the Sabres cave it will set a precedent Oh yeah remember before his ask for surgery became public he sent flowers to the nurses yeah not related to this at all

 

[ORRFForever]

How many teams are even interested in Eichel regardless of the surgery? Its not like 31 teams want him and only 5 are willing to do ADR. How many teams have actually been rumored? 10?

You never know. A lot of tire kicking and a lot of rumours but...

 

[Fatass]

If Jack got ADR (which has never been done on a hockey player) and it turned out poorly, the Sabres would have to pay Eichel's entire surgery - insurance would not cover their share.

If you were the Pagulas, you'd say no, too.

WHy do so many no other teams support Jack in his choice of surgery then?

 

[Empoleon8771]

First, not every other team is willing to let him have his surgery. From most reports, the vast majority would require fusion.

A handful of teams said they would allow ADR but talk is cheap.

Second, the Pagula aren't willing to burn $30-$40M in lost insurance to make Eichel happy. You wouldn't either.

What basis do you have to say that ADR is somehow a more risky surgery?

Just because the NHL has used older surgeries doesn't make newer surgeries inherently risky.

 

[ORRFForever]

WHy do so many no other teams support Jack in his choice of surgery then?

Do they?

We've never heard anything from any GM's - because that would be tampering. Mostly we hear rumours and anonymous sources.

 

[ORRFForever]

What basis do you have to say that ADR is somehow a more risky surgery?

Just because the NHL has used older surgeries doesn't make newer surgeries inherently risky.

Reports I've read.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Reports I've read.

It is viewed as "more risky" not because it has been proven as risky, but because there is less data on it.

Artificial Disc Vs. Anterior Cervical Discectomy and Fusion

"ACDF has been around decades longer than today’s artificial cervical disc options. While abundant data is available regarding the long-term safety and efficacy of ACDF, similar data is not yet available for cervical ADR. As a newer technology, one of the main risks of cervical ADR is not knowing how long the artificial disc will last, even though results thus far have been promising."

The entire argument is "it's newer, so less is known". That doesn't make it inherently more risky.

 

[ORRFForever]

It is viewed as "more risky" not because it has been proven as risky, but because there is less data on it.

Artificial Disc Vs. Anterior Cervical Discectomy and Fusion

"ACDF has been around decades longer than today’s artificial cervical disc options. While abundant data is available regarding the long-term safety and efficacy of ACDF, similar data is not yet available for cervical ADR. As a newer technology, one of the main risks of cervical ADR is not knowing how long the artificial disc will last, even though results thus far have been promising."

The entire argument is "it's newer, so less is known". That doesn't make it inherently more risky.

Fair enough.

Having said that, the insurance company covering Eichel's contract will bow out if he gets ADR so...

 

[explore]

WHy do so many no other teams support Jack in his choice of surgery then?

Because they're putting all the risk on the Sabres by putting conditions on the picks based on the number of games he plays after getting ADR, on top of not offering blue chip prospects/players for him

It's a bunch of Bargain Bins GMs kicking tires hoping to pull off another ROR heist

 

[ORRFForever]

Let's be honest the surgery is just an excuse It was his get out of Buffalo card without looking bad If the Sabres cave it will set a precedent Oh yeah remember before his ask for surgery became public he sent flowers to the nurses yeah not related to this at all

If you pay for enough 2nd opinions, someone will eventually tell you what you want to hear.

 

[ORRFForever]

It's a bunch of Bargain Bins GMs kicking tires hoping to pull off another ROR heist

^This.^

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

It is likely the insurance issue.

If the procedure would invalidate the insurance policy, the Sabres would could be on the hook for an extra 32 million of Eichels contract if he never plays again. (It would amount to 50 million vs 17.5 million)

Eichel won't be interested in possibly voiding his contract if he can't play. The NHL or the PA won't take on the financial risk to cover the contract.

All the posters in this thread blaming the sabres for not going along with Eichels wishes aren't taking into account the reality of the situation.

I'm sorry but do you know this? I've searched around a bit and can't find anything stating this. Wouldn't the Sabres state this publicly if true?

If it's not true (and I'm guessing it's not - I'm pretty sure Eichel's representatives would have looked into both insurance and contract implications), then this isn't a money thing. It's just a person looking out for himself and the organization protecting an asset. I tend to side with the person in that dynamic.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

It is viewed as "more risky" not because it has been proven as risky, but because there is less data on it.

Artificial Disc Vs. Anterior Cervical Discectomy and Fusion

"ACDF has been around decades longer than today’s artificial cervical disc options. While abundant data is available regarding the long-term safety and efficacy of ACDF, similar data is not yet available for cervical ADR. As a newer technology, one of the main risks of cervical ADR is not knowing how long the artificial disc will last, even though results thus far have been promising."

The entire argument is "it's newer, so less is known". That doesn't make it inherently more risky.

The Pegulas don’t want to pay $50M on a guinea pig. But if you want data on it, feel free the mess up Zohorna or Angello’s neck, then let them get ADR. Then you can have your data.

Or, you can look at Letang, who got fusion and seems to be ok.

 

[Dr Quincy]

If Jack got ADR (which has never been done on a hockey player) and it turned out poorly, the Sabres would have to pay Eichel's entire surgery - insurance would not cover their share.

If you were the Pagulas, you'd say no, too.

This is a pretty illogical take.

If Jack Eichel is a top 5, #1, Franchise C..... you don't trade him because you "MIGHT" have to pay 100k if a surgery goes wrong.

Paying for the surgery has nothing to do with trading Eichel.

(If you want to talk about the contract itself, that's a different issue, but nobody knows for sure about the details about insurance, contract and what happens if things go wrong... but I can at least buy that consideration as an argument).

 

[Dr Quincy]

Fair enough.

Having said that, the insurance company covering Eichel's contract will bow out if he gets ADR so...

Source for this please.

 

[Dr Quincy]

The Pegulas don’t want to pay $50M on a guinea pig. But if you want data on it, feel free the mess up Zohorna or Angello’s neck, then let them get ADR. Then you can have your data.

Or, you can look at Letang, who got fusion and seems to be ok.

Or you can look at Dorsett who got fusion surgery and had to retire.

If the case to be made is that ADR is risky because we don't know the results on NHL hockey players so that means fusion is better because we do know it has a 50% chance of success... then I'd say that's a pretty poor argument.

This is the risk of using anecdotal tiny sample sizes in order to make grand declarations.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Or you can look at Dorsett who got fusion surgery and had to retire.

If the case to be made is that ADR is risky because we don't know the results on NHL hockey players so that means fusion is better because we do know it has a 50% chance of success... then I'd say that's a pretty poor argument.

This is the risk of using anecdotal tiny sample sizes in order to make grand declarations.

Dorsett was lucky to even make the league. Regardless, Eichel is a lot of money to be a guinea pig for a surgery. Now if you wanna say that contract length and/or amount shouldn't matter, I'm not necessarily gonna disagree with that. But you can't deny that it is possibly a factor, outside of the facts that we know already.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Dorsett was lucky to even make the league. Regardless, Eichel is a lot of money to be a guinea pig for a surgery. Now if you wanna say that contract length and/or amount shouldn't matter, I'm not necessarily gonna disagree with that. But you can't deny that it is possibly a factor, outside of the facts that we know already.

I agree the risk is huge and I can understand any team not wanting it. But I keep on hearing "never tried on an NHL player"... and then 1 player who got fusion being named as proving fusion is more tried and true. I don't mean just you, but lots of posters. I assume there must be other NHL players who have had cervical fusion surgery and gone on to play at various levels of effectiveness (as would be true with any surgery).

But I never see any other names attached other than Letang. If he is indeed the only successful case, then I wouldn't put "1 case" over "0 cases" as being more safe.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I agree the risk is huge and I can understand any team not wanting it. But I keep on hearing "never tried on an NHL player"... and then 1 player who got fusion being named as proving fusion is more tried and true. I don't mean just you, but lots of posters. I assume there must be other NHL players who have had cervical fusion surgery and gone on to play at various levels of effectiveness (as would be true with any surgery).

But I never see any other names attached other than Letang. If he is indeed the only successful case, then I wouldn't put "1 case" over "0 cases" as being more safe.

I agree that there's probably been plenty that have. Either they've been forgotten (because of time), or were simply not good enough to make it to the NHL, or they stayed over in Europe. Other than Dorsett and Letang, the only player I remember getting it done was Grant Marshall when he broke his neck in the OHL. And that was late 80s/early 90s fusion

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

no solution

 

[Bernie Federko]

I feel bad for Buffalo fans. It's like we're watching the Truman Show where people are wearing buttons "How's it going to end?"

 

[Unspecified]

So tired hearing about this cluster f*** on a daily basis!

 

[HC7]

Take Mickey Marner for him. I can't stand to watch him play another game for the Leafs.

 

[ORRFForever]

Source for this please.

I'm NOT digging thru endless posts to find some source.

If you choose not to believe it, that fine.