Prospect Info: Isles Prospect Talk PART XI

[doublechili]

Olli Joulevi. There is a thread on the main board about it.... other names have been tossed around, but there's too much smoke around Olli for it not to be him and he's the only one that fits the criteria.

High pick out of the CHL that hasn't broken into the league. Picked by a Canadian team. Posted strong numbers in the CHL then regressed and was sent back to Europe. Was called out publicly by his coach and even healthy scratched. No one else fits the mold, not even close.

Actually, the guy who broke the story (Jeff Marek) has shot down that rumor saying it isn't Juolevi.

 

[PWJunior]

Actually, the guy who broke the story (Jeff Marek) has shot down that rumor saying it isn't Juolevi.

Could be damage control.

In any case, I think we're safe and that's all I really care about.

The story that really got me was the prospect with that huge tapeworm. That was crazy.

 

[Jester9881]

Actually, the guy who broke the story (Jeff Marek) has shot down that rumor saying it isn't Juolevi.

And he'd have no reason to backtrack and hide the prospect he was cautious about keeping secret beforehand?

Alright. Find me who it is then if not Juolevi. Find me someone that could even slightly be more of a fit using the criteria Marek gave.

 

[Jester9881]

Prominent NHL team
Recent high draft pick
Out of the CHL
Was a good player in the CHL
Hasn't played an NHL game

 

[PWJunior]

Prominent NHL team
Recent high draft pick
Out of the CHL
Was a good player in the CHL
Hasn't played an NHL game

Bellows is our possibility according to the criteria. I think we're disqualified with the prominent team thing so I'm satisfied.

 

[Jester9881]

Bellows is our possibility according to the criteria. I think we're disqualified with the prominent team thing so I'm satisfied.

Prominent team, and high pick.

 

[doublechili]

And he'd have no reason to backtrack and hide the prospect he was cautious about keeping secret beforehand?

Alright. Find me who it is then if not Juolevi. Find me someone that could even slightly be more of a fit using the criteria Marek gave.

Yeah, I guess that's possible. Risky credibility-wise though if it later comes out that he lied (even to protect the player). IMO the smarter move would just be to say nothing.

I honestly don't want to do the research to eliminate possibilities. But I don't believe Marek said the prospect has never played an NHL game - I think he only said he probably will not make the NHL (which I would interpret to mean as a career). Assuming that's the case, the list of possibilities expands.

 

[Jester9881]

Marek was doing fine until he gave enough info to shorten the list.Even when you take out "played in the NHL and make it "established NHL'er".

"Prominent NHL team" = Original six, Canadian Market or current/perennial contender in a big city. (13 teams)

Toronto (Matthews, Marner, Nylander Rielly)
Montreal (Sergachev, Galchenyuk)
NYR (Andersson)
Detroit (Rasmussen)
Chicago
Boston
Vancouver (Petterson, Olli Juolevi, Virtanen, Horvat)
Edmonton (Puljujarvi, Draisaitl, Nurse, Yakupov)
Calgary (Tkachuk, Bennett, Monohan)
Ottawa
Winterpeg (Laine, Ehlers, Trouba)
LAK
Penguins (Pouliot)

"Recent high pick" knocks 4 off of that list if we go back through the 2012 draft (5 years) and count top 10 picks (9 teams)
Chicago
Boston
LAK
Ottawa

Remove teams with obvious established picks like: (4 Teams)
Toronto
Montreal
Calgary
Winterpeg
Penguins

"Out of the CHL" knocks it back even further
Rangers (Lias Andersson)
Edmonton (Puljujarvi and 3 established NHL'ers)

Leaves two teams
Vancouver and Detroit. Since Petterson was drafted out of Sweden, and Virtanen/Horvat are established NHL'ers

That leaves
Olli Juolevi (Vancouver 5th overall in 2016) and
Michael Rasmussen (Detroit 9th overall in 2017)

Now that I laid out all the hard work, do a little simple research on both players and come to your own conclusion.

 

[Jester9881]

Before anyone asks, Tampa had two top 10 picks in that time and they are both established NHL'ers (Drouin and Koekkoek)
Washington has no top 10 pick in that time frame
Nashville only has Seth Jones who is obviously established

 

[doublechili]

Before anyone asks, Tampa had two top 10 picks in that time and they are both established NHL'ers (Drouin and Koekkoek)
Washington has no top 10 pick in that time frame
Nashville only has Seth Jones who is obviously established

Good research, but I think you're putting too much stock in his use of "prominent" (I think he brought this up on a radio show, so it's not like it was written and he crafted his language - "prominent" could have been fluff/meaningless for all we know).

Similarly, when he said "high draft pick" (again, something he said live, not written), in the context of a 7 round draft I don't think it's legit to limit it to top 10 picks. I would think any 1st round pick could qualify. I'd guess this would expand the list of possibilities greatly.Yankees' Brian Cashman calls ex-Devils GM Lou Lamoriello New York's best of last 50 years

 

[Jester9881]

Not that interested to waste any more time on the subject. I can point you to interviews where his coach called him out on his preparedness and scratched him for a few games. Or when a team mate did an interview and called him out on it. Believe what you wish, I think I strongly stated my case.

 

[doublechili]

Not that interested to waste any more time on the subject. I can point you to interviews where his coach called him out on his preparedness and scratched him for a few games. Or when a team mate did an interview and called him out on it. Believe what you wish, I think I strongly stated my case.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to be argumentative, BTW. Marek probably should have just kept this one under wraps from the get go.

 

[Jester9881]

Fair enough. I didn't mean to be argumentative, BTW. Marek probably should have just kept this one under wraps from the get go.

He never should have elaborated further on it.

 

[xECK29x]

He never should have elaborated further on it.

Correct, there was a much better way of bringing this discussion and topic up on the show. He killed a lot of connections.

 

[Jester9881]

It's important because we forget that these are people, and sometimes it isn't what happens on the ice that prevents these kids from becoming NHL players. Is it abnormal that this kid is that into video games? No way, but it goes to show the kind of commitment it takes to just make it to the show. Even the worst player is better than almost every slob sitting at home giving that player crap. I gave Brian Streit so much crap, but my 18-20 year old self was never as good as he will likely still be at 45. I remember going to a game when I was 12-13, watching warmups and wishing I could skate as well as Mick Vukota.... and I was a pretty decent skater. We would play hockey all day long until you couldn't see the puck/ball anymore... did that for almost 10 years and I still couldn't do reverse crossovers as smooth as a guy getting paid to punch peoples faces in.

But he probably worked 10X as hard as I did for twice as long to get there. Just something to keep in mind when trashing someone like MDC for not developing the way you like, or even Snow for drafting him.

 

[doublechili]

It's important because we forget that these are people, and sometimes it isn't what happens on the ice that prevents these kids from becoming NHL players. Is it abnormal that this kid is that into video games? No way, but it goes to show the kind of commitment it takes to just make it to the show. Even the worst player is better than almost every slob sitting at home giving that player crap. I gave Brian Streit so much crap, but my 18-20 year old self was never as good as he will likely still be at 45. I remember going to a game when I was 12-13, watching warmups and wishing I could skate as well as Mick Vukota.... and I was a pretty decent skater. We would play hockey all day long until you couldn't see the puck/ball anymore... did that for almost 10 years and I still couldn't do reverse crossovers as smooth as a guy getting paid to punch peoples faces in.

But he probably worked 10X as hard as I did for twice as long to get there. Just something to keep in mind when trashing someone like MDC for not developing the way you like, or even Snow for drafting him.

Great points. Pretty much every drafted player has worked their tail off to get to that position. And taking the next steps to eventually making the NHL is really, really hard. That's why most prospects don't pan out. So to blame it on gaming alone is probably not the reality. Every kid who doesn't make it can probably have some thing that someone from the outside could point at. At the end of the day making the NHL requires talent, physical/mental gifts, devotion and incredible hard work. It's actually pretty easy to NOT make the NHL for any number of reasons.

 

[Poliz24]

You guys think Toews most likely starts in the AHL and is the first call-up? Considering he is fully healthy and back to hockey shape. OR does that still belong to Aho in the D core.

 

[Jester9881]

I don't think Toews can start in the AHL unless he's hurt. I think he's out of options like Pulock was last year.

 

[SI]

I don't think Toews can start in the AHL unless he's hurt. I think he's out of options like Pulock was last year.

Toews can start the season in the AHL- he has an option left.

 

[seafoam]

I do think I remember Staple saying that Toews could start the year in the AHL, and because of his injury is very likely to do so.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Can't imagine Toews starts anywhere other than the AHL. Not after that injury.

Much of his fate then depends on what the team does with de Haan, Hickey, and Davidson.

Naturally, Lou will need to re-up Pulock and likely give him a long-term contract (4-5 years?).

I think the organization views Toews as being ahead of Aho. He's older and he not only had 45 points in his rookie AHL season (never saw that from the likes of Hamonic or de Haan), but then picked things up to 8-14-22 in 30 games in his sophomore year. That's a 20-35-55 pace over 75 games.

But that said, thumbs up to Aho who came over as an undersized Dman, played very decently in the show while showing a clear upwards trend in his play, and was a game-pusher for Bridgeport at the start and end of the season. We're talking about a kid who was 21/22 and put up 9-20-29 in 40 games his first AHL season. Naturally, he came in as a veteran after 4 years of SHL play.

Then again, Lou now needs to get to know these guys.

 

[Poliz24]

Can't imagine Toews starts anywhere other than the AHL. Not after that injury.

Much of his fate then depends on what the team does with de Haan, Hickey, and Davidson.

Naturally, Lou will need to re-up Pulock and likely give him a long-term contract (4-5 years?).

I think the organization views Toews as being ahead of Aho. He's older and he not only had 45 points in his rookie AHL season (never saw that from the likes of Hamonic or de Haan), but then picked things up to 8-14-22 in 30 games in his sophomore year. That's a 20-35-55 pace over 75 games.

But that said, thumbs up to Aho who came over as an undersized Dman, played very decently in the show while showing a clear upwards trend in his play, and was a game-pusher for Bridgeport at the start and end of the season. We're talking about a kid who was 21/22 and put up 9-20-29 in 40 games his first AHL season. Naturally, he came in as a veteran after 4 years of SHL play.

Then again, Lou now needs to get to know these guys.

Does Davidson really stand a chance at staying? I think there are already a few Hickey's in the organization with Aho or Vande Sompel. Would love to resign De Haan. Perhaps with the injury his value drops. Either way, I think Aho/Toews can make Pelech expendable. I think Mayfield should stay due to his physical style.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Does Davidson really stand a chance at staying? I think there are already a few Hickey's in the organization with Aho or Vande Sompel. Would love to resign De Haan. Perhaps with the injury his value drops. Either way, I think Aho/Toews can make Pelech expendable. I think Mayfield should stay due to his physical style.

Lesser so now that Lou will be making decisions.

I'd have thought he may stay if Snow was making the decisions.

And as much as I've always thought Hickey would just walk this summer, the guy had a 5-20-25, +20 season - on a team with this abysmal defense. That's... just about inexplainable.

 

[Poliz24]

Lesser so now that Lou will be making decisions.

I'd have thought he may stay if Snow was making the decisions.

And as much as I've always thought Hickey would just walk this summer, the guy had a 5-20-25, +20 season - on a team with this abysmal defense. That's... just about inexplainable.

Either way, does Hickey put up those stats in another 2-3 years after now, if we re-sign him?

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Lesser so now that Lou will be making decisions.

Not opposed to keeping him as a #7

I'd have thought he may stay if Snow was making the decisions.

If Snow was making the decisions, he would get a 5 yr deal and I truly believe that.

And as much as I've always thought Hickey would just walk this summer, the guy had a 5-20-25, +20 season - on a team with this abysmal defense. That's... just about inexplainable.

Great numbers and I like Hickey the person but it's time to move on. Eye test tells us otherwise, he's had some dreadful turnovers, some of the worst passes in our own zone. He was great in the playoffs but we need a new identity on the blue line. I just hope they don't rely on Devon Toews to be some stud right out the gate, but with Lou at the helm, I feel much more at ease. He's not going to go for Mickey Mouse shit like 3 goalies, deadline acquisitions of nobodies and relying on an AHL defense to get us in the playoffs.