Is there any doubt that a Prime Jagr would have decimated this league?

[daver]

I'm a Pens fan that watched both Jagr, Sid, and Geno in their primes. Jagr dominated in ways Sid and Geno never could. Sure Sid may be the superior 2-way player, but offensively Jagr is in a different league.

Don't forget, Jagr scored 120+ points at the age of 37.

Actually it's pretty easy to forget because he never did that.

If you think Jagr was on a different level offensively, do you think his peers were also on a different level from today's players? It simply doesn't add up. On a per game basis, Malkin in 2012 and Crosby in 2010 and 2013 were just as dominant as Jagr.

 

[bathdog]

I'm a Pens fan that watched both Jagr, Sid, and Geno in their primes. Jagr dominated in ways Sid and Geno never could. Sure Sid may be the superior 2-way player, but offensively Jagr is in a different league.

Don't forget, Jagr scored 120+ points at the age of 37.

I don't think you opinion is an unreasonable one to have, but throwing out stuff like this is just equally misleading as the guy saying he scored 150pts during DPE. Higher scoring seasons.

 

[Batis]

I see no reason to doubt that prime Jagr would have been just as dominant in todays league as he was during his prime. Then the question of course is whether winning 5 Art Ross trophies, being top 2 in scoring 7 times, being top 4 in the Hart trophy voting 7 times and winning 3 Pearson/Lindsay awards should count as having decimated the league? Because that is what Jagr did in his prime and probably roughly what he would do today as well.

I do believe that peak Jagr (during the 1999 calendar year) could have dominated the scoring race in todays NHL in a way that perhaps could be counted as having decimated the league. During the 1999 calendar year Jagr scored 152 points (63 goals and 89 assists) in 84 games. Jagr scored 43 points more than Selänne who was second in scoring and 59 points more than Kariya who was third in scoring during that calendar year. This is in my opinion clearly one of the highest absolute peaks outside of the Big 4.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Jagr would definitely dominate today's league in his prime / peak.

 

[authentic]

I see no reason to doubt that prime Jagr would have been just as dominant in todays league as he was during his prime. Then the question of course is whether winning 5 Art Ross trophies, being top 2 in scoring 7 times, being top 4 in the Hart trophy voting 7 times and winning 3 Pearson/Lindsay awards should count as having decimated the league? Because that is what Jagr did in his prime and probably roughly what he would do today as well.

I do believe that peak Jagr (during the 1999 calendar year) could have dominated the scoring race in todays NHL in a way that perhaps could be counted as having decimated the league. During the 1999 calendar year Jagr scored 152 points (63 goals and 89 assists) in 84 games. Jagr scored 43 points more than Selänne who was second in scoring and 59 points more than Kariya who was third in scoring during that calendar year. This is in my opinion clearly one of the highest absolute peaks outside of the Big 4.

Wow. Didn't realize he had a stretch quite that dominant. Beats out Crosby or Ovechkin's best quite easily. Also 1999 NHL wasn't an easy one to score in.

 

[daver]

Wow. Didn't realize he had a stretch quite that dominant. Beats out Crosby or Ovechkin's best quite easily. Also 1999 NHL wasn't an easy one to score in.

It was easier to score than any of the last 6 to 7 seasons.

The # of players in 1998/99 who were at 1.20 PPG - 7

The # of players from 2010/11 to 2016/17 (excluding strike-shortened season) who were at 1.20 PPG - 7

 

[deckercky]

It was easier to score than any of the last 6 to 7 seasons.

The # of players in 1998/99 who were at 1.20 PPG - 7

The # of players from 2010/11 to 2016/17 (excluding strike-shortened season) who were at 1.20 PPG - 7

PPG doesn't really matter - he was 40% higher than the next competitor.

Now, the dates for the stat are cherry picked for sure (and I believe a Bure injury knocked off the top competitor for the latter part of the period), but it demonstrates a period of proportional dominance seen only in the big four's stats.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Best winger of all time. Idgaf if Gordie says hi.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Jagr had exactly the build and exactly the play style to not only survive pre-lockout hockey, but to flourish in it.

In today's league he would absolutely ruin the leader boards.

 

[daver]

PPG doesn't really matter - he was 40% higher than the next competitor.

Now, the dates for the stat are cherry picked for sure (and I believe a Bure injury knocked off the top competitor for the latter part of the period), but it demonstrates a period of proportional dominance seen only in the big four's stats.

Of course PPG matters for the very reason you point out. This is a stupid premise to begin and made stupider by assuming that players would be injured in the current NHL.

As for your proportional dominance remark, I am sure Hull, Esposito or Mikita have a similiar dominance. Malkin's 2012 was just as dominant as Jagr's 1999 season on a per game basis.

 

[daver]

Jagr had exactly the build and exactly the play style to not only survive pre-lockout hockey, but to flourish in it.

In today's league he would absolutely ruin the leader boards.

Actually you can easily argue he thrived in the DPE because of his size and play style and would not be as effective in today's game or rather others would be closer to him.

I think he would be just as dominant.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Actually you can easily argue he thrived in the DPE because of his size and play style and would not be as effective in today's game or rather others would be closer to him.

I think he would be just as dominant.

Only if you think athletes are light years ahead of where they were in general in the 90s.

25-year-old Jagr with pair of Crazylights is all I'm saying.

 

[deckercky]

Malkin's 2012 was just as dominant as Jagr's 1999 season on a per game basis.

Malkin's 109 pts is 12-13% over the next highest scorer (Stamkos' 97 pts).

Jagr's 127 pts is 19-20% over the next highest scorer (Selanne's 107 pts).

Jagr's season is much more dominant.

 

[Alex Jones]

He would decimate the league at any time in history, that's why he's a legend

 

[TheAngryHank]

7 pages and no livewell, hope he is ok.

 

[daver]

Malkin's 109 pts is 12-13% over the next highest scorer (Stamkos' 97 pts).

Jagr's 127 pts is 19-20% over the next highest scorer (Selanne's 107 pts).

Jagr's season is much more dominant.

What part on a "per game basis" didn't you get.

 

[Fantomas]

Prime Gretzky... 70Pts? He's somehow 70% less effective? Prime Have would be what Crosby was in his prime.

Gretzky was twice the player Crosby ever was.

 

[CartographerNo611]

Idk, it was different in the 90s. Strength over speed was big since you had to carry a couple D-man while skating. If he started today he would of trained differently and would be as freakishly strong on the puck?

I’m not an old man, but I can see a lot of current players not surving the 90s. I remember Adam Footes last game he was allowed to use the fore arm shiver at what 38, and just wrecked a younger player with “superior” physical training. Fore arm shiver like that today would be boarding or a cross check minor.

Stick Crosby back in 94 he would of had 2 or 3 100 point seasons at best and no Hart’s. Playoffs were an entirely different beast compared to the last 9 years. He would be injured twice as much just due to the insane difference in physicality that was allowed back then. He has had issues playing healthy in a league, especially the last 4 years that have been soft as hell.

 

[Batis]

Of course PPG matters for the very reason you point out. This is a stupid premise to begin and made stupider by assuming that players would be injured in the current NHL.

Who said anything about assuming that players would be injured in the current NHL? I said that I believe that Jagr at his absolute peak could have totally dominated the current NHL based on his domination over his peers during the 1999 calendar year. I never said that Jagr would dominate more now than he did back then. And it is not as if Jagrs dominance during that calendar year becomes that much less impressive if we look at PPG instead of points. If I did not miss any player with a significant amount of games played this is the top 4 in PPG during that year.

Jagr: 152 points in 84 games: 1.810 PPG
Bure: 53 points in 39 games: 1.359 PPG
Sakic: 87 points in 65 games: 1.338 PPG
Selänne: 109 points in 83 games: 1.313 PPG

I would probably still say that Selännes numbers are the second most impressive since he had a pretty similar PPG as Bure and Sakic over a larger sample of games. So I dont really think that looking at PPG makes Jagrs dominance that calendar year much less impressive.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

And where was this decimation ever in the playoffs? Crosby>jagr easily

 

[Riddum]

He would decimate the league at any time in history, that's why he's a legend

Without Gretzky and Lemieux, yes

 

[authentic]

Idk, it was different in the 90s. Strength over speed was big since you had to carry a couple D-man while skating. If he started today he would of trained differently and would be as freakishly strong on the puck?

I’m not an old man, but I can see a lot of current players not surving the 90s. I remember Adam Footes last game he was allowed to use the fore arm shiver at what 38, and just wrecked a younger player with “superior” physical training. Fore arm shiver like that today would be boarding or a cross check minor.

Stick Crosby back in 94 he would of had 2 or 3 100 point seasons at best and no Hart’s. Playoffs were an entirely different beast compared to the last 9 years. He would be injured twice as much just due to the insane difference in physicality that was allowed back then. He has had issues playing healthy in a league, especially the last 4 years that have been soft as hell.

This is crap. He would be just fine back then as he has been today. A few 100 point seasons? More like numerous 130+ point seasons.

 

[authentic]

Who said anything about assuming that players would be injured in the current NHL? I said that I believe that Jagr at his absolute peak could have totally dominated the current NHL based on his domination over his peers during the 1999 calendar year. I never said that Jagr would dominate more now than he did back then. And it is not as if Jagrs dominance during that calendar year becomes that much less impressive if we look at PPG instead of points. If I did not miss any player with a significant amount of games played this is the top 4 in PPG during that year.

Jagr: 152 points in 84 games: 1.810 PPG
Bure: 53 points in 39 games: 1.359 PPG
Sakic: 87 points in 65 games: 1.338 PPG
Selänne: 109 points in 83 games: 1.313 PPG

I would probably still say that Selännes numbers are the second most impressive since he had a pretty similar PPG as Bure and Sakic over a larger sample of games. So I dont really think that looking at PPG makes Jagrs dominance that calendar year much less impressive.

That's almost Gretzky like domination.

 

[authentic]

And where was this decimation ever in the playoffs? Crosby>jagr easily

Jagr did very well in the playoffs, it's not his fault his teams couldn't make it far when he was in his prime. He had a pretty healthy run of being the highest points per game player in the league in the playoffs.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

And where was this decimation ever in the playoffs? Crosby>jagr easily

Where was Crosby in the playoffs from 2010 to 2015?

I'll tell you where he wasn't - outperforming Jagr from 1995 to 2001.