Is there any doubt that a Prime Jagr would have decimated this league?

[NewUser293223]

You mean he put up more points in the games he played really well and not so many points in the games he didn't play as well?

You just blew my mind.

Well somebody was always gonna do it for you. And the rest of the world, obviously.

 

[KingBran]

Lots of doubt.

He would be on the same level as he was back in his prime... Top tier. Not "decimating" anything.

Can't wait for 15-20 years from now and people will be talking about prime Crosby / Ovechkin destroying everyone in the current NHL.

 

[daver]

Well somebody was always gonna do it for you. And the rest of the world, obviously.

Sorry, I thought my response was good enough to point out the ridiculousness of your post.

So please enlighten us all on what we should consider Crosby in 2010/11. Is he a 1.65 PPG player (his actual PPG) over the games he played or a 0.93 PPG player as you seem to want to make him out to be?

 

[NewUser293223]

Imagine a 45 year old Sid playing today.

Actually, Sid is the wily, skilled and small sort and unless a hit to the head stops him, he could have a long and successful career deep into his thirties. It's not impossible to imagine he has a bit of the early-thirties slump that even Jagr had, then finds a new motivation and keeps going. I've learned not to ever write off the great players and and Sid is one of them. I just happen to think that Daver takes his love too far.

 

[NewUser293223]

Sorry, I thought my response was good enough to point out the ridiculousness of your post.

So please enlighten us all on what we should consider Crosby in 2010/11. Is he a 1.65 PPG player (his actual PPG) over the games he played or a 0.93 PPG player as you seem to want to make him out to be?

Deleted, too mean. Daver, you're on my ignore list, because I hate verbally assaulting people who border on mentally ill, yet I can't help it when talking to you.

Seek professional help for your Crosby fetish.

 

[NoMessi]

Deleted, too mean. Daver, you're on my ignore list, because I hate verbally assaulting people who border on mentally ill, yet I can't help it when talking to you.

Seek professional help for your Crosby fetish.

hahaha, your first post was pure gold.

And yes, Jagr is the best player since Lemieux, ofc he would dominate.

 

[NewUser293223]

hahaha, your first post was pure gold.

And yes, Jagr is the best player since Lemieux, ofc he would dominate.

I was being mean. One thing is for sure, Daver is quite possibly the biggest fan of anyone I have ever seen. The other day, I read his conversation with someone who asked whether daver ever talked about anything other than Sid, which had somebody else pointing out Daver had joined in 2003, so he probably must have talked about someone / something else at one point or another...

Well well... Guess what:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/search/415925/?page=12

 

[leafsfan1234]

He would be lucky to hit 50pts.

 

[Riddum]

Lots of doubt.

He would be on the same level as he was back in his prime... Top tier. Not "decimating" anything.

Can't wait for 15-20 years from now and people will be talking about prime Crosby / Ovechkin destroying everyone in the current NHL.

Oh ok, so he would be at the same level that allowed him to win the Art Ross 4 years in a row... and be the first man not named Lemieux and Gretzky to win the trophy. The level that made him the best player not named Gretzky or Lemieux. I see.

 

[KingBran]

Oh ok, so he would be at the same level that allowed him to win the Art Ross 4 years in a row... and be the first man not named Lemieux and Gretzky to win the trophy. The level that made him the best player not named Gretzky or Lemieux. I see.

Yeah. Not decimating anything. He would be good. Not sure why you seem to have taken offense to my post lol.

Sorry I dont drool over Jager?

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

The ONLY way to do this comparison is to take the players EXACTLY as they were. You seem to want to make one player a lot better than he really was, and THEN compare him to other players EXACTLY as good as they are.


You seriously don't understand how dishonest and unfair that is?

With your logic Beethoven could've been the best hockey player in the world, had he been born in 1992. Makes no sense.

Lmao, literally every premise/question in this post is a logical fallacy.
First up is your false dichotomy: No, there are multiple ways to compare players of different eras. It is not just your way or no way.
Second, strawman: You aren't even trying at this point; that clearly isn't what he is trying to do, but saying that is, makes it easier to attack
Third, loaded question.
Fourth, strawman, again.
With your logic, wait, you don't have any logic.

 

[psycat]

^

Daxi, you may be mixing up DPE and the 80s, elite players hardly had a walk in the park late 90s to mid 00s.



If belief is is irrelevant here, then why are you implicitly suggesting Crosby would have finished with 1.30 "something"? Isn't that belief too?



But of course. Coaches, roles and usages surely can't vary between different era.

Lets look.

The best offensive forwards post lockout are:

Kovalchuk
MSL
B. Richards

Good to know.

Lets look.

These players "earned" higher TOI than Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin career high, and the lists are only this short because Ovechkin had high TOI during his peak.

In 97/98.

Fleury
Oates
Jagr
Bure
Selanne
Lindros

In 98/99.

Jagr
Sakic
Kariya
Straka
Forsberg
Fleury

In 99/00.

Bure
Kariya
Straka
Sakic
Jagr



Yes, this season makes a good benchmark. It's not like it deviates from Crosby's norm. It's not like it's an extremely small sample size. Lets use it as benchmark.





Keyword absolute, which is how their PPG's were initially listed.

Did they really? Forsberg generally saw pretty low TOI. In 97/98 Jagr beat Forsberg by 11 points while playing 5 games more, and while also seeing 1 minute more ES TOI and 1:15 minutes more PP TOI.

I mean FWIW Martin St. Louis got as many Art Rosses as Crosby :^)

 

[AzHawk]

yeah

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I mean FWIW Martin St. Louis got as many Art Rosses as Crosby :^)

Corey perry has the same amount of harts as jagr. Two can play that game.

Out if the 5 major awards (hart, Smythe, rocket, ross, Lindsay)


Crosby 3 out of 5 crosby has more than jagr....

 

[bathdog]

I mean FWIW Martin St. Louis got as many Art Rosses as Crosby :^)

Hehe - MSL's career is weird. Really great played (but imo not close to being the most impactful player in the league) - went undrafted. 2 time Ross winner while having the good fortune of the two biggest run away winners this side of the millennium getting injured.

 

[Riddum]

Corey perry has the same amount of harts as jagr. Two can play that game.

Out if the 5 major awards (hart, Smythe, rocket, ross, Lindsay)


Crosby 3 out of 5 crosby has more than jagr....

When you realize that Puck Daddy bloggers had a vote, you know the voting system is terrible.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Actually Prime Stevens would have ended his career after the prime Avalanche acquired prime Stevens to round out their $200 million roster (prime cap) to win their 7th cup.

 

[Pez68]

I suggest watching this YouTube clip of his highlights.


How many guys do you see doing this kind of stuff today? The answer is zero. The answer to this question is...ZERO DOUBT.

 

[CzEK]

Prime Jagr under current rules would hardly ever lose the puck legally. His puck protection, which is argubly the best ever, would allow him dominate more than in 90s imo. Back then he wasnt slow either.

 

[Pez68]

Prime Jagr under current rules would hardly ever lose the puck legally. His puck protection, which is argubly the best ever, would allow him dominate more than in 90s imo. Back then he wasnt slow either.

Guys couldn't take the puck from him in the clutch and grab era. On a few of those goals, he fights through 3-4 penalties. He also had ridiculous speed. You watch some of those highlights and the speed he's moving and handling the puck just blow your mind. He's a one of a kind player. No player has ever had his combination of size, speed, agility, hands, and shot. How good he is, is overshadowed by the fact that he played at the same time as two of the best players ever. He would decimate the league the same way those guys would.

 

[DFF]

he was playing with bark and hooby

What the f*** does this mean? Those 2 makes him look good? Why are they not doing it for their team now?

 

[daver]

Guys couldn't take the puck from him in the clutch and grab era. On a few of those goals, he fights through 3-4 penalties. He also had ridiculous speed. You watch some of those highlights and the speed he's moving and handling the puck just blow your mind. He's a one of a kind player. No player has ever had his combination of size, speed, agility, hands, and shot. How good he is, is overshadowed by the fact that he played at the same time as two of the best players ever. He would decimate the league the same way those guys would.

These posts never make any sense. If Jagr thrived in the DPE because he of his size and puck protection, why would be stand out even more than he did in an era where those characteristics aren't as important?

The best regular season producers right now are fast and/or smallish forwards with great hands.

 

[Nick Hansen]

These posts never make any sense. If Jagr thrived in the DPE because he of his size and puck protection, why would be stand out even more than he did in an era where those characteristics aren't as important?

The best regular season producers right now are fast and/or smallish forwards with great hands.

Jagr was both pretty fast and had great hands in his prime. So I don't get your point. Did you even see him play?

 

[daver]

Jagr was both pretty fast and had great hands in his prime. So I don't get your point. Did you even see him play?

The point was there is no reason to think he would be more dominant in today's game. I think his skills translate to any era but not any worse or better than anyone else's.

Using the other poster's logic, I could easily argue that because smaller players are less interfered with in today's game, they would be closer to Jagr than they were in the DPE. I don't believe that as everyone's numbers went down in the '90s, not just smaller players.