Is there any doubt that a Prime Jagr would have decimated this league?

[Tobias Kahun]

Prime gretzky 70 points? did I read that properly?

 

[mouser]

I don't know why people say the game is 'faster than ever'

It's slower (granted, it's a bit better this year) and players are lacking in creativity more than they ever did. The 90s were filled with superstar talents, the Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Sakic, Forsberg, Bure, Fedorov, Yzerman, Hull, Lindros, Kariya, Selanne, Modano, Fleury, Gilmour, etc etc.

Today's 'best-players', save for a handful, are glorified grinders valued for their 'two-way play'. When a 30-30 guy like Bergeron is proclaimed as one of the best Cs.. sorry, I don't buy it.

The players overall are faster then ever. That doesn't mean the games themselves play out faster.

 

[TheAngryHank]

The players overall are faster then ever. That doesn't mean the games themselves play out faster.

I'm going to disagree,i don't think players are that much faster but the game is slightly becauce of the two line pass.Like today in the 90s there were fast guys and everyone else.I would put the fastest of that era vs todays speedsters. Teemu ,Sakic,Feds,Bure etc...were also good with the puck at speec and shoot on the fly. I personally don't see the gap.

 

[authentic]

I'm going to disagree,i don't think players are that much faster but the game is slightly becauce of the two line pass.Like today in the 90s there were fast guys and everyone else.I would put the fastest of that era vs todays speedsters. Teemu ,Sakic,Feds,Bure etc...were also good with the puck at speec and shoot on the fly. I personally don't see the gap.

The gap is in the pace of the game and the average players speed. Nearly everyone can skate pretty well now, even 12 or so years ago their were still a lot of slow defensemen, unskilled bottom liners and strictly goons in the league.

 

[TheAngryHank]

The gap is in the pace of the game and the average players speed. Nearly everyone can skate pretty well now, even 12 or so years ago their were still a lot of slow defensemen, unskilled bottom liners and strictly goons in the league.

Bottom pairings just have a different role these days. Used to be those guys punnished players for entering their zone,guys like Hatcher were good at that,though not extremely fast.Chara isn't fast yet still plays and played and was effective in that era.I agree the Scott Parkers are gone and replaced with T Glass of the new slightly faster much less physical NHL.
To be the game was more fun to watch back when when idiots like Barniby were around

 

[saffronleaf]

He's closer to 50 than he is to 40, and apparently players are done at 30 on here. It's also a sustainable pace for him given what we saw last season, around 50 points for a guy his age? Is there anyone in the league older than 38 right now capable of this?

Maybe Marleau? But he's exactly 38.

 

[saffronleaf]

Forsberg would had decimated this league.

So many great players were stymied by the dead puck era. I feel bad for all those players who had their primes between '96 and '04.

Sundin, Forsberg, Lindros (with blindside headhunting made illegal).. and many others.

 

[authentic]

Maybe Marleau? But he's exactly 38.

Yeah I had him in mind when I said it, oldest I could think of.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

100% would. He put 150+ during the clutch and grab dead puck era and actually had speed. He wouldve destroyed this league now. Lemieux even more.

 

[authentic]

So many great players were stymied by the dead puck era. I feel bad for all those players who had their primes between '96 and '04.

Sundin, Forsberg, Lindros (with blindside headhunting made illegal).. and many others.

Sundin is basically the only notable forward who managed to stay healthy throughout that era.

 

[authentic]

Bottom pairings just have a different role these days. Used to be those guys punnished players for entering their zone,guys like Hatcher were good at that,though not extremely fast.Chara isn't fast yet still plays and played and was effective in that era.I agree the Scott Parkers are gone and replaced with T Glass of the new slightly faster much less physical NHL.
To be the game was more fun to watch back when when idiots like Barniby were around

It was great to watch no doubt, more excitement, dominating players, hits, fights, character and emotion, what hockey's all about. Not so much anymore though, but it's undeniable the speed, skill level and team play is better from top to bottom.

 

[saffronleaf]

Sundin is basically the only notable forward who managed to stay healthy throughout that era.

Yup. For me the impressive thing about players like Sundin that made him succeed was the ability to keep playing with the extreme clutching and grabbing -- basically carrying the other team's defender on your back. With that gone... players like that I think would have performed way better.

 

[mouser]

I'm going to disagree,i don't think players are that much faster but the game is slightly becauce of the two line pass.Like today in the 90s there were fast guys and everyone else.I would put the fastest of that era vs todays speedsters. Teemu ,Sakic,Feds,Bure etc...were also good with the puck at speec and shoot on the fly. I personally don't see the gap.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I wasn't claiming today's best players are faster then yesterday's. I was saying "overall" players are faster today.

Would have probably been better to say "on average" players are faster today. The speed of bottom 6 forwards and lower pairing defensemen has increased since yesteryears.

 

[authentic]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I wasn't claiming today's best players are faster then yesterday's. I was saying "overall" players are faster today.

Would have probably been better to say "on average" players are faster today. The speed of bottom 6 forwards and lower pairing defensemen has increased since yesteryears.

Also the pace of the game, the speed players move, transition and cycle the puck.

 

[mouser]

100% would. He put 150+ during the clutch and grab dead puck era and actually had speed. He wouldve destroyed this league now. Lemieux even more.

Sigh, is it too much work to check Jagr's career stats before posting?

 

[JJ68]

Put it this way: prime Jagr in this era isnt losing a scoring title unless he plays less than 60 to 65 games. He sure as heck aint losing one to Benn.

I mean the guy is doing what he does in this era at 46. The best of today wont even be able to play past 40, and certainly not well. And Jagr played in a game that was much more physically demanding.

He's a beast. Nobody today could touch him in his prime.

 

[The Panther]

Is there any doubt that if Howie Morenz had been born in 1995 he would be destroying today's League?

Is there any doubt that if Mario Lemieux had been born in 1910 he would have destroyed the proto-NHL?

When Gretzky was 5-10 years past his prime he outscored Jagr, but Jagr today would destroy the NHL while Gretzky would get 70 points if he was lucky.

I think this is an intelligent thread. Carry on!

 

[aufheben]

He decimated the league he was in...

I never understood what was so interesting about hypothetical hockey scenarios. Especially for someone like Jagr who couldn't be further from a "what could have been" player.

 

[DenisSamson3]

Mental state is important also. Before the 4 min mile was done, it was deemed as too physically demanding. After 1 guy actually completed it, 22 others completed the mile in under 4 minutes the following year.
So the players of today keep up with their peers. I'm sure the better players of before would be able to keep up if given the chance.

 

[Machinehead]

I never understood what was so interesting about hypothetical hockey scenarios. Especially for someone like Jagr who couldn't be further from a "what could have been" player.

Fun fact: If Forsberg was healthy, and playing today, and there was a blue moon in the month of January, he would put up 350 points.

 

[Machinehead]

Is there any doubt that if Howie Morenz had been born in 1995 he would be destroying today's League?

Is there any doubt that if Mario Lemieux had been born in 1910 he would have destroyed the proto-NHL?

When Gretzky was 5-10 years past his prime he outscored Jagr, but Jagr today would destroy the NHL while Gretzky would get 70 points if he was lucky.

I think this is an intelligent thread. Carry on!

It's super weird.

Everyone from the 80's and 90's is ridiculously romanticized on this site except, somehow, Gretzky.

He only put up points because bad goaltending or something and didn't actually have any skill, just a 190 IQ and a lot of luck.

 

[The Panther]

He only put up points because bad goaltending or something and didn't actually have any skill, just a 190 IQ and a lot of luck.

Yes, and he had that luck for 80 games per year and every playoff for 12 seasons, plus regular international tournaments against the best players in the world, consistently, game in and game out.

Oh, and also goaltending only became good at the exact moment Gretzky stopped leading the NHL in goals.

 

[Machinehead]

Yes, and he had that luck for 80 games per year and every playoff for 12 seasons, plus regular international tournaments against the best players in the world, consistently, game in and game out.

Oh, and also goaltending only became good at the exact moment Gretzky stopped leading the NHL in goals.

No it became good when shift ended. That's why nobody else in the same era scored 90 goals.

 

[Knave]

Is McDavid decimating the league right now?

 

[NewUser293223]

Credibility shot after "prime Gretzky would score about 70 points"

I'm not sure you guys got it. I think he meant to ridicule the circulating statement of some that prime Gretzky would have scored seventy points these days (at best).