Is Patrick Marleau a Hall of Famer?

[DFF]

. Scoring 500+ goals and 100+ game winners is truly great.

it depends, if it takes you 20 yrs to do it then it's not that great.

 

[Halla]

500+ goals. nearly 1100 pts.
14 (soon to be 15) 20+g seasons
7 times hitting 30g or more

oh and hasnt missed a game in about a decade.

Marleau is a lock. not first ballot, but he will be in

 

[Halla]

it depends, if it takes you 20 yrs to do it then it's not that great.

36 players in NHL history have more goals
60 players have more points

by the time he retires, he is likely to be top 25 for goals and top 40 for points.
over 100+ years, pretty good no?

"not that great" lol. there have been what 50,000 players that have played in the NHL at one time or another?

 

[Halla]

Never top five in points and was never considered a top five player in the game. Was stripped of the " C" multiple times in SJ. No.

sp basically a guy who is top 5 for a few years, tails off entirely and ends up average for the better part deserves it more than Marleau?

hilarious

 

[GreatGonzo]

500+ goals. nearly 1100 pts.
14 (soon to be 15) 20+g seasons
7 times hitting 30g or more

oh and hasnt missed a game in about a decade.

Marleau is a lock. not first ballot, but he will be in

You really think there is anything significant about that?

36 players in NHL history have more goals
60 players have more points

by the time he retires, he is likely to be top 25 for goals and top 40 for points.
over 100+ years, pretty good no?

"not that great" lol. there have been what 50,000 players that have played in the NHL at one time or another?

Good, but not as great as your making it. Consistent, but not that elite....if he ever was, he wasn't for that long.

You need to stop looking at just point totals and really look at the context. This is a player who has only 3 PPG seasons, only 2 seasons of anything significant as a goal scorer, and no top 10 point finishes.

He has no hardware, Little international success, and has fallen off production wise over the past 3-4 seasons.

So what exactly makes him a HOFer?

Pat Verbeek, Pierre Turgeon, Jeremy Roenick, and Peter Bondra all have 500+ goals, all except Bondra have 1000+ points. None are in the HOF.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

36 players in NHL history have more goals
60 players have more points

by the time he retires, he is likely to be top 25 for goals and top 40 for points.
over 100+ years, pretty good no?

"not that great" lol. there have been what 50,000 players that have played in the NHL at one time or another?

How many hart ballots? First, second team all star nods?

How many times was he the premier guy in the league?

 

[Commander Clueless]

I think the lack of hardware makes it questionable, but it's certainly possible. He's had a fantastic, consistent career and his totals are impressive.

 

[DFF]

"not that great" lol. there have been what 50,000 players that have played in the NHL at one time or another?

Absolutely, "great" should not be used for guys like Marleau. It's for guys like Jagr, Modano, Sundin, Iginla...etc...guys that are the best of their generation.

But again it's just my opinion. Great is subjective...some people think a big Mac is great lol

 

[bobermay]

You really think there is anything significant about that?

Good, but not as great as your making it. Consistent, but not that elite....if he ever was, he wasn't for that long.

You need to stop looking at just point totals and really look at the context. This is a player who has only 3 PPG seasons, only 2 seasons of anything significant as a goal scorer, and no top 10 point finishes.

He has no hardware, Little international success, and has fallen off production wise over the past 3-4 seasons.

So what exactly makes him a HOFer?

Pat Verbeek, Pierre Turgeon, Jeremy Roenick, and Peter Bondra all have 500+ goals, all except Bondra have 1000+ points. None are in the HOF.

Considering only 26 players in the history of the NHL has had 15 20+ goal seasons, I think it says something...

Not only that, if Marleau is healthy the next two seasons, he'll be 5th all-time in Games Played... That alone warrants HHOF IMO. He's also 7th all-time in Game Winning Goals...

Considering ALL NHL players ahead of Marleau in the games played department has or WILL be inducted in the HHOF, I think its likely Marleau will too...

 

[Voight]

Considering only 26 players in the history of the NHL has had 15 20+ goal seasons, I think it says something...

Not only that, if Marleau is healthy the next two seasons, he'll be 5th all-time in Games Played... That alone warrants HHOF IMO. He's also 7th all-time in Game Winning Goals...

Considering ALL NHL players ahead of Marleau in the games played department has or WILL be inducted in the HHOF, I think its likely Marleau will too...

You can't seriously think playing a lot games is going to affect his HHOF chances?

 

[Voight]

I can't believe people are actually trying to say if Recchi's in Marleau should be in.

 

[bobermay]

You can't seriously think playing a lot games is going to affect his HHOF chances?

What do you think the criteria is for a player to be inducted into the HHOF?

Straight from the website:

Playing ability, sportsmanship, character and contributions to his or her team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.

Being near the top of the list in NHL GP, GWG, 20+G seasons, All-Time SJS great, 2-time Olympic gold metal winner, 2-time WHC gold metal winner... etc would fit the above criteria for me.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I didn't ignore anything.....you made that point and I simply pointed out how silly it was considering Marleau has played with Thornton. It's a point you used against Recchi while trying to make a case for Marleau....which is silly.

Marleau didn't? Have you watched the Sharks? Most(if not all) of Marleaus best seasons were while he played on Thorntons line and while on the PP with Thornton. I suggest you actually do research before saying anything.

Your basing your entire argument on stats that not only don't exist but are flawed in itself. The fact that you have to "adjust" his stats to make him look superior doesn't help your case.

What? He sits 8th in points during that time span...last time I checked, that's within the top 10. He also finished within the top 10 in assists twice, and once within the top 10 in points....your the one who has constantly stated how he played in a higher scoring era, which is unfair for Marleau...I provided DPE stats.

What is this top 20 nonsense?
Recchi: Top 10
Points: 4x(Best: 3rd)
Assists: 4x(Best: 1st)
Goals: 1x
Marleau: Top 10
Points: 0
Assists: 0
Goals: 3x(Best: 4th)

Why are you deliberately moving the goal posts when the stats are right in front of you? Not just that, but you do realize Recchi was 37 in 2006, right? Marleau was 26....

I understand, but Recchi wasn't some compiler....he hit 100 points 3x and a PPG 6x. He sits 6th among players in points, and 7th in assists in a decade span among the 1990s. He sits 3rd ALL TIME in points, 3rd in asssits, and 9th in goals among Right Wingers...while sitting 20th in goals, 15th in assists, and 12th in points all time. He was a great hockey player. Not just that, but his best seasons('91: 113 points) in Pitt, Lemieux only played 23 games and Recchi led the club in points, assists, and tied for goals. He did the same thing in Philly in '93. Recchi wasn't Andreychuk, he was an elite Winger who was consistently at the top in his position.

You may not agree with it, hell...you might not even like it, but his cups had A LOT to do with his induction. Your fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Era doesn't make up for their huge gaps offensively. Recchi spent a MAJORITY of his years playing in Lower scoring eras. From 89-96, he has 635 points in 546 games. From 97-11, he has 898 points in 1106 games...within that time frame, he sits 6th in points and 5th in assists. Do you know where Marleau sits from 98-04? 80th.....Recchi sits 9th in that same time frame. The whole different eras argument your attempting to make doesn't work, Recchi played in the same era and did just fine...all while marleau was barely a blimp on the radar.

You want to talk about adjusting eras and different time frames? Marleaus production took off after the lockout when the game opened up and became more speedy, at the same time, Joe Thornton came to town and they were put on the PP together. Soon after, Marleau was put on his wing. If your going to nit pick Recchi, at least do the same for Marleau who benefited greatly from a faster game and from a generational playmaker.

I have literally watched every single shift of Marleau's career as a Shark. The idea that he was mostly playing on Thornton's wing during his prime is simply false. The times he did play on his wing he was definitely great and produced but that isn't the bulk of his prime and that's a fact so you may want to take some of your own advice and do some research. Where exactly are you getting your DPE stats from because his DPE top ten finishes are only once. And again, you completely disregard the eras that each player played in during their careers and you either fundamentally misunderstand what the eras are and how you adjust for them because they were markedly different or ignore that in which case it is completely pointless to talk to you about this because you're refusing to have an honest discussion about it. The times Recchi hit 100 points were pre-DPE which hasn't been replicated since. With regards to the Lemieux 26 game season, you're conveniently ignoring that there were also guys like Paul Coffey and a pretty good 18 year old Jaromir Jagr on that team with sprinkles of guys like Ron Francis, Bryan Trottier, Joe Mullen, and Larry Murphy who were all Hall of Famers. And that Cup win that year was pretty much all Lemieux. And yes, eras do make up for the huge gaps offensively because that's pretty much entirely what it's based on.

Again, it's complete revisionist history on your part to believe that the Cups side of things is anything other than a throwaway line that sounds nice for an induction ceremony but it had nothing to do with why he got inducted. And when you talk about when the lockout opened up the game it still wasn't to the degree that Recchi was able to play in during the first six or seven years of his career and that open play post-2005 lockout didn't last even that long. It took a few years after Thornton arrived for Marleau to be put on his wing and that only lasted two or three seasons. That's it. It's not some huge bulk of his prime. It's not even close.

 

[Voight]

What do you think the criteria is for a player to be inducted into the HHOF?

Straight from the website:



Being near the top of the list in NHL GP, GWG, 20+G seasons, All-Time SJS great, 2-time Olympic gold metal winner, 2-time WHC gold metal winner... etc would fit the above criteria for me.

Do you not realize they also value individual hardware and statistical dominance (to an extent) ?

Being an all time Sharks great means literally nothing (contributions to their team has more to do with things like cups), some Gold medals are nice but he was never a standout/core player on any of those teams. Playing a lot of games & having so many 20G seasons is a good example of fortune and consistency... but doesn't help you make the HHOF. Having a bunch of GWG is a piece of trivia and nothing more.

He is severely lacking in playing ability (in comparison with other HHOF'ers) and the contributions to the game of hockey department.

 

[bobermay]

Do you not realize they also value individual hardware and statistical dominance (to an extent) ?

Being an all time Sharks great means literally nothing (contributions to their team has more to do with things like cups), some Gold medals are nice but he was never a standout/core player on any of those teams. Playing a lot of games & having so many 20G seasons is a good example of fortune and consistency... but doesn't help you make the HHOF. Having a bunch of GWG is a piece of trivia and nothing more.

He is severely lacking in playing ability (in comparison with other HHOF'ers) and the contributions to the game of hockey department.

Good Argument... you're basically saying... Marleau's achievements don't meet my standards, so he shouldn't be in the HHOF. How is GWG nothing but a piece of trivia? Its a strong indication of his contributions to his teams...

Marleau has done things that very few in hockey history has done... YET for some people, that means jack all...

 

[HFpapi]

My problem with a guy like Marleau being in the hall is, his career has overlapped with far too many players who were considered far superior at their peak than Marleau has ever been, but themselves will not make the hall.

ex: Markus Naslund, Todd Bertuzzi, Dany Heatley, Marc Savard, Ziggy Palffy, Alex Kovalev, Sergi Gonchar, Jason Allison...the list can go on...all peaked higher but are not HHOF caliber...Marleau having a bit more longevity but less impressive peak doesn't do it for me

Hall of very good for me

 

[GreatGonzo]

Considering only 26 players in the history of the NHL has had 15 20+ goal seasons, I think it says something...

Not only that, if Marleau is healthy the next two seasons, he'll be 5th all-time in Games Played... That alone warrants HHOF IMO. He's also 7th all-time in Game Winning Goals...

Considering ALL NHL players ahead of Marleau in the games played department has or WILL be inducted in the HHOF, I think its likely Marleau will too...

So because he has played around the same amount of games as Yzerman, means that he is equal to him in terms of worthiness?.....

These Stats your using to further your claim don't really mean much. When is the last time a player got in for scoring a bunch of 20 goal seasons, and playing a lot of games?

I have literally watched every single shift of Marleau's career as a Shark. The idea that he was mostly playing on Thornton's wing during his prime is simply false. The times he did play on his wing he was definitely great and produced but that isn't the bulk of his prime and that's a fact so you may want to take some of your own advice and do some research. Where exactly are you getting your DPE stats from because his DPE top ten finishes are only once. And again, you completely disregard the eras that each player played in during their careers and you either fundamentally misunderstand what the eras are and how you adjust for them because they were markedly different or ignore that in which case it is completely pointless to talk to you about this because you're refusing to have an honest discussion about it. The times Recchi hit 100 points were pre-DPE which hasn't been replicated since. With regards to the Lemieux 26 game season, you're conveniently ignoring that there were also guys like Paul Coffey and a pretty good 18 year old Jaromir Jagr on that team with sprinkles of guys like Ron Francis, Bryan Trottier, Joe Mullen, and Larry Murphy who were all Hall of Famers. And that Cup win that year was pretty much all Lemieux. And yes, eras do make up for the huge gaps offensively because that's pretty much entirely what it's based on.

Again, it's complete revisionist history on your part to believe that the Cups side of things is anything other than a throwaway line that sounds nice for an induction ceremony but it had nothing to do with why he got inducted. And when you talk about when the lockout opened up the game it still wasn't to the degree that Recchi was able to play in during the first six or seven years of his career and that open play post-2005 lockout didn't last even that long. It took a few years after Thornton arrived for Marleau to be put on his wing and that only lasted two or three seasons. That's it. It's not some huge bulk of his prime. It's not even close.

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but your simply flat out wrong.

Marleau was on Joes wing roughly from '09-'14. He scored almost 200 goals within that time span, and had his best goal scoring seasons within that time frame too...coincidence? I don't think so.

I don't understand your question about the DPE stats....Recchi has one top 10 finish in points and two in assists during the DPE, as well as being not just a productive Winger, but player.

I'm not the one who doesn't understand. You keep talking eras as if Recchi played in the 80s while Marleau is a post lockout player. There careers overlap and for the most part, a majority of Recchis career. I mean you do realize, using adjusted stats....Recchi is 9th overall in points all time right? Marleau is tied 31st....this takes into account eras and stats and has Recchi within the top 10...look right to you?

Except you didn't say that, you said he played with Mario Lemieux, and besides that, he led that whole Pitt team in nearly every offensive category with all those amazing players on that team. Your being very contradicting Citing how Recchis stats are padded because he played with such great players, all while being oblivious to the fact that Marleau played many years with Thornton.

Your putting words in my mouth. You need to stop and actually read what I'm saying before typing...I CLEARLY said that I don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean the committee feels the same way. Is that really hard to understand? Is it ridiculous? Yes, but it's happened numerous times when inducting a player, so let's not be naive.

Marleau went from 28 goals and 57 points in '04....to 34 goals and 86 points. 44 points on the PP, including 20 goals...who do you think was on the pp with him?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but your simply flat out wrong.

Marleau was on Joes wing roughly from '09-'14. He scored almost 200 goals within that time span, and had his best goal scoring seasons within that time frame too...coincidence? I don't think so.

I don't understand your question about the DPE stats....Recchi has one top 10 finish in points and two in assists during the DPE, as well as being not just a productive Winger, but player.

I'm not the one who doesn't understand. You keep talking eras as if Recchi played in the 80s while Marleau is a post lockout player. There careers overlap and for the most part, a majority of Recchis career. I mean you do realize, using adjusted stats....Recchi is 9th overall in points all time right? Marleau is tied 31st....this takes into account eras and stats and has Recchi within the top 10...look right to you?

Except you didn't say that, you said he played with Mario Lemieux, and besides that, he led that whole Pitt team in nearly every offensive category with all those amazing players on that team. Your being very contradicting Citing how Recchis stats are padded because he played with such great players, all while being oblivious to the fact that Marleau played many years with Thornton.

Your putting words in my mouth. You need to stop and actually read what I'm saying before typing...I CLEARLY said that I don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean the committee feels the same way. Is that really hard to understand? Is it ridiculous? Yes, but it's happened numerous times when inducting a player, so let's not be naive.

Marleau went from 28 goals and 57 points in '04....to 34 goals and 86 points. 44 points on the PP, including 20 goals...who do you think was on the pp with him?

Except, no. He was on the top line with Thornton and Setoguchi, Thornton and Heatley, and Thornton and Pavelski but it was just consistently the span of three seasons. After that, he moved up and down the lineup largely playing with Couture. So I'm not going to bother with you the rest of the way because you don't know what you're talking about. lol

 

[GreatGonzo]

Except, no. He was on the top line with Thornton and Setoguchi, Thornton and Heatley, and Thornton and Pavelski but it was just consistently the span of three seasons. After that, he moved up and down the lineup largely playing with Couture. So I'm not going to bother with you the rest of the way because you don't know what you're talking about. lol

You honestly believe it was 3 seasons?....

You do realize he was just taken off the line in 2015 right? That's not 3 seasons.

 

[Territory]

100% yes. I'm also so sick of reading "oh he wasn't a top 5 player in any season" "hall of very good" etc.

The hall of fame is about the career. Not single seasons. He has had a hall of fame caliber career. 500+ goals. Over 1000 points. An epic ironman streak. Tons of game winners. International success.

He will get in.

 

[bobermay]

So because he has played around the same amount of games as Yzerman, means that he is equal to him in terms of worthiness?.....

These Stats your using to further your claim don't really mean much. When is the last time a player got in for scoring a bunch of 20 goal seasons, and playing a lot of games?

Again, this is the criteria for the HHOF:

Playing ability, sportsmanship, character and contributions to his or her team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.

HHOF is a form of recognition for an outstanding contribution to hockey. Nobody is suggesting Marleau is "equal to Yzerman in terms of worthiness"... However, Marleau has done MANY things as a hockey player that MOST do not... that makes him unique and deserving of recognition.

Nobody is saying Marleau should be in the HHOF just because he's had 14 (likely 15+) 20 goal seasons... However, an accumulation of everything Marleau has done is unique and should be recognized... The amount of games played and production with one franchise, being one of the best players of all time at GWGs... TWO gold medals...

Only player who has had 15+ 20 goal seasons who has not been inducted into the HHOF is Keith Tkachuk, Iginla, Hossa and Jagr... Three of these guys are still not retired...

Marleau has had a HHOF deserving career IMHO... and if he were to win the Cup with the Leafs that would cement things in stone as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but your simply flat out wrong.

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but you spelled 'your' wrong...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You honestly believe it was 3 seasons?....

You do realize he was just taken off the line in 2015 right? That's not 3 seasons.

Except no that isn't the case. Sorry. 2013-14 was Pavs/Hertl-Thornton-Burns...12-13 was Galiardi-Thornton-Burns...But I was wrong in three seasons. It was four. 2008-09-2011-12.

 

[sparxx87]

I think he should be added to the bronze statue on front, the one with the players on the bench.

You can argue whether you think he deserves it or not, but based on the criteria from the Hall of Fame, Patrick Marleau is a Hall of famer.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Again, this is the criteria for the HHOF:


HHOF is a form of recognition for an outstanding contribution to hockey. Nobody is suggesting Marleau is "equal to Yzerman in terms of worthiness"... However, Marleau has done MANY things as a hockey player that MOST do not... that makes him unique and deserving of recognition.

Nobody is saying Marleau should be in the HHOF just because he's had 14 (likely 15+) 20 goal seasons... However, an accumulation of everything Marleau has done is unique and should be recognized... The amount of games played and production with one franchise, being one of the best players of all time at GWGs... TWO gold medals...

Only player who has had 15+ 20 goal seasons who has not been inducted into the HHOF is Keith Tkachuk, Iginla, Hossa and Jagr... Three of these guys are still not retired...

Marleau has had a HHOF deserving career IMHO... and if he were to win the Cup with the Leafs that would cement things in stone as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but you spelled 'your' wrong...

What are these "many things" that Marleau has done?...

Iginla, Hossa, and Jagr have done much more and have better careers for the Hall than Marleau....that's obvious.

Oh my, I spelt you're wrong?! *gasp....

Except no that isn't the case. Sorry. 2013-14 was Pavs/Hertl-Thornton-Burns...12-13 was Galiardi-Thornton-Burns...But I was wrong in three seasons. It was four. 2008-09-2011-12.

That's why I said "roughly."

Hertl played 37 games in 2014....who do you think was on the wing?

Besides, 09-12 was Marleaus prime and best years as a player....I wonder why? The lines shifted here and there, Marleau would be on and off again some seasons.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That's why I said "roughly."

Hertl played 37 games in 2014....who do you think was on the wing?

Besides, 09-12 was Marleaus prime and best years as a player....I wonder why? The lines shifted here and there, Marleau would be on and off again some seasons.

After Hertl got hurt in 2014, it was Pavelski that replaced him. 2009-12 was not the entirety of Marleau's prime as a player. His prime started much earlier and ended a little later than 2012. But like before, there's enough here that I can disregard your opinion on this because of your lack of understanding of the player and his team so we've gotten as far as we're going to get here.