Is Patrick Marleau a Hall of Famer?

[GreatGonzo]

After Hertl got hurt in 2014, it was Pavelski that replaced him. 2009-12 was not the entirety of Marleau's prime as a player. His prime started much earlier and ended a little later than 2012. But like before, there's enough here that I can disregard your opinion on this because of your lack of understanding of the player and his team so we've gotten as far as we're going to get here.

Pavelski was always on Thorntons wing that season.

Ok...so when did Marleau hit his prime? Because it definitely wasn't before Thornton.

I mean, look at his stats between that time frame....your going to say he wasn't at his best stat wise?
09: 76-38-33-71
10: 82-44-39-84
11: 82-37-36-73
12: 82-30-34-64

Marleau is a good player in his own right, but Thornton made him a great player and a great goal scorer. Your the one who seems to be under the impression that his 500 goals and 1000 points doesn't directly correlate to playing with Thornton.

 

[Kale Hulls]

We should just give the puck the credit for scoring goals since we all know hockey players cant score goals without a puck.

This is what your argument sounds like btw.

 

[socko]

Patrick Marleau is not a HOFer.

Sure Andreychuk wasn't a strong case at all, but he sits 14th in goals, 29th in points, with a cup. He compiled, but he compiled enough to be significant and put up big enough numbers season by season to be a big enough name.

Housley? Once again, one of the best offensive defenseman to ever play. 4th in points, 5th in assists, and 4th in goals among D-men all time. Obviously it doesn't matter how bad defensively he was.

These aren't the strongest arguments, but they are stronger than Marleau, who...although was a great and consistent goal scorer for a good period of time, solid defensively, and longevity...had a very weak peak, weak finishes, and no hardware.

Andreychuk had to wait 11 years to be inducted, Housley had to wait 12. If Marleau ever did reach the Hall, it wouldn't be for many many years, and it has to be a significantly weak year.

Marleau isn't even a HOF talent so to speak. Although a great player in his own right, he very much took full advantage of player along side Thornton.

We need to stop looking for reasons why a player should be inducted, that's where we are going wrong. It should be the other way around. Marleau simply doesn't have enough to be in there. 500 goals and 1000 points are amazing achievements, but is that really the line we are drawing with NO context what so ever?

Marleau is a 2nd tier, or "hall of very good" and there is nothing wrong with leaving it at that.

Andreychuk is also first all-time in PP goals. Which any career stat that first place doesn't belong to Gretzky is impressive. A big no from me on Marleau.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Just put everyone in the hall of fame!! Seriously though....

 

[Ben White]

Just put everyone in the hall of fame!! Seriously though....

Exactly. If a guy like Marleau gets in they might as well just shut the hall down cause it won't mean anything anymore.

 

[socko]

He's kind of like Mike Gartner minus 200 goals. Fast, soft, never won anything. Gartner had a better shot.

 

[Hockeyholic]

He's kind of like Mike Gartner minus 200 goals. Fast, soft, never won anything. Gartner had a better shot.

This. God it's so frustrating that they let Sundin, Federko, Lanny MacDonald, Andreychuk, Nieuwendyk, Recchi in. Going strictly by point totals is ridiculous. Recchi was a very consistent player; never great. Sundin the same. It's been watered down the last several years.

 

[bobermay]

This. God it's so frustrating that they let Sundin, Federko, Lanny MacDonald, Andreychuk, Nieuwendyk, Recchi in. Going strictly by point totals is ridiculous. Recchi was a very consistent player; never great. Sundin the same. It's been watered down the last several years.

Do HHOFers have to be elite...? In otherwards... can one deserve recognition for his contributions towards hockey (their team) WITHOUT being an elite of the elite player in their prime...? Why shouldn't a player be achnowledged for longevity in the game? Why can't most elite players supperior to Marleau play as many games Marleau has?

I'm NOT saying most good players should go in the HHOF... but if a player has done things very few others have... does that not deserve recognition?

How often do players win TWO Olympic gold medals AND TWO World Championships?
How many players play > 1500 NHL games? Nearly all for one club?
How many players have played 19 seasons for one club?
How many players play in 16+ playoffs in the NHL?
How many players have played 99% of the games they could play?
How many players have scored > 500 NHL goals?
How many players get 1100+ points?
How many players have 15+ 20 goal seasons?
How many players have 101+ Game Winning Goals?

Very few players have been consistently as good as Marleau has been. Not only that, but offensive production has slowed down in the new NHL which probably impacted Marleau too.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Do HHOFers have to be elite...? In otherwards... can one deserve recognition for his contributions towards hockey (their team) WITHOUT being an elite of the elite player in their prime...? Why shouldn't a player be achnowledged for longevity in the game? Why can't most elite players supperior to Marleau play as many games Marleau has?

I'm NOT saying most good players should go in the HHOF... but if a player has done things very few others have... does that not deserve recognition?

How often do players win TWO Olympic gold medals AND TWO World Championships?
How many players play > 1500 NHL games? Nearly all for one club?
How many players have played 19 seasons for one club?
How many players play in 16+ playoffs in the NHL?
How many players have played 99% of the games they could play?
How many players have scored > 500 NHL goals?
How many players get 1100+ points?
How many players have 15+ 20 goal seasons?
How many players have 101+ Game Winning Goals?

Very few players have been consistently as good as Marleau has been. Not only that, but offensive production has slowed down in the new NHL which probably impacted Marleau too.

Good players can be honored by their respective organizations. Yes, ultimately I think the best of the best should be inducted. My minimum requirement: 500 goals, 1,000 points, at least three ( Smythe, Art ross, Mvp) major awards during the run of a career, at least five first time all stars. Exceptions can be made for guys who were in the top five mvp voting at least three times. Oh yeah, point per game player too.

 

[bobermay]

Good playrrs can be honored by their respective organizations. Yes, ultimately I think the best of the best should be inducted. My minimum requiremrnt: 500 goals, 1,0000 points, at least three ( Smythe, Art ross, Mvp) major awards during the run of a career, at least five first time all stars. Exceptions can be made for guys who were in the top five mvp voting at least three times. Oh yeah, point per game player too.

So you want to leave it up to completely subjective awards to determine who the elite of the elite are?

 

[socko]

Guys like Roenick and Tkachuk who had better careers and weren't as soft as Charmin would have to get in first.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Good players can be honored by their respective organizations. Yes, ultimately I think the best of the best should be inducted. My minimum requirement: 500 goals, 1,000 points, at least three ( Smythe, Art ross, Mvp) major awards during the run of a career, at least five first time all stars. Exceptions can be made for guys who were in the top five mvp voting at least three times. Oh yeah, point per game player too.

I’d also prefer the Hall to have higher standards, but those are so tough numerous deserving stars wouldn’t make the cut - Yzerman, Sakic, Forsberg, Fedorov, Modano, Stastny, Hawerchuk, Bossy, Oates, etc.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Good players can be honored by their respective organizations. Yes, ultimately I think the best of the best should be inducted. My minimum requirement: 500 goals, 1,000 points, at least three ( Smythe, Art ross, Mvp) major awards during the run of a career, at least five first time all stars. Exceptions can be made for guys who were in the top five mvp voting at least three times. Oh yeah, point per game player too.

Do you have any idea how many worthy players would be booted from the Hall by your standards?

Not every HOFer is going to win a AR, Hart, or Smythe. Not every HOFer is going to receive AS Honors...and not every HOFer is going to be a PPG.

 

[GreatGonzo]

This. God it's so frustrating that they let Sundin, Federko, Lanny MacDonald, Andreychuk, Nieuwendyk, Recchi in. Going strictly by point totals is ridiculous. Recchi was a very consistent player; never great. Sundin the same. It's been watered down the last several years.

Sundin was one of the best players of the DPE, Is a model of consistency, and an impressive internationl resume.

He doesn't belong in the same conversation as guys like Andreychuk, Nieuwendyk, and Recchi.

 

[Voight]

He's kind of like Mike Gartner minus 200 goals. Fast, soft, never won anything. Gartner had a better shot.

Gartner was a much better goal scorer and was considered one of the best at his position for a solid decade.

Sundin was one of the best players of the DPE, Is a model of consistency, and an impressive internationl resume.

He doesn't belong in the same conversation as guys like Andreychuk, Nieuwendyk, and Recchi.

Its amazing how many people think Sundin got in just because he was the face of the leagues marquee franchise.

They often forget

- his consistency, Excluding his rookie season, the half-lockout season and his half season with Vancouver, Sundin scored at least 70 points in every season of his career
- 95 pts in 79 international games, well over PPG
- 2x second AST
- 2x top 10 points, 3x top 10 goals

 

[garyturner3]

I voted no because I don't believe he should be in there. But eventually I imagine he will. It seems after enough time passes they left everybody in if they had longevity and great career stats. The fact that players like Andreychuk get in really lowers the bar for me. Amazing longevity and career numbers yes, but the guy made TWO all star games in his 20+ career season. IMO the hall should be reserved for players that were among the best in the game for a long period of time. ie. players up for Hart trophies, 1st team all stars, etc. Andreychuk has never even been in the conversation as one of the game's best for an individual season.