Is Matthews underrated on these boards?

[LeafsNation75]

last year Marner put up 60 points for us and helped us get into the playoffs while Barzal wasn't in the league. if we have Barzal instead we might have missed the postseason

I agree with all of what you said. I'm just saying what I read last night and how this specific person wanted to focus on what Barzal has been doing this season and forgetting how amazing Marner was last season.

 

[Matthews34]

Marner is over rated even last year. He's really not that good. He's too carefree and light hearted to be truly special. When we drafted him I thought he was a fiery and fierce competitor but we're seen none of that at the NHL level. I'm pretty certain he's going to be a 50 point winger for the rest of his career.

 

[Daisy Jane]

this is typical grass is always greener mentality. you'd be saying the opposite if Barzal was being forced to play defensive hockey for the Leafs while Marner was getting to tear it up in NYI in a purely offensive role

trust me no.
Mess does not like Marner at all, and never had.
he was v. much hoping we would draft Barzal in 2015.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

does Babcock even run the PP? I'm sure he has a say but I thought some other guy was in charge of it

DJ Smith maybe? Either way the instructions are probably the same.

EDIT: It’s Jim Hiller who runs powerplay.

 

[Superstar]

As long as you're both aware that I was using Leivo's existence on that list to refute another persons argument.....which means I agree with you.....and that my sarcasm needs work......

Your Leivo numbers refuted nothing...unless you like to take things and data out of context...his sample size is insufficient...and how old is he compared to Matthews? How many years in the pros has he had the chance to develop over Matthews...not to mention the figures you copied/pasted are off...lol. It's funny that I didn't have to pull numbers like the way you tried to do to realize how amazing Matthews numbers are as another poster pointed out...I just watched the way he plays, see how he scores and the goals and points he racks up in even strength with very limit powerplay time compared to other "superstars", as well as having significantly lower TOI than other "top" forwards in the NHL due to the way Babcock manages his icetime. The NHL is a finite league, with finite number of players, and a further constraint on the number of top players. The math details only further support Matthews superstar status.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

DJ Smith maybe? Either way the instructions are probably the same.

Yeah and we definitely have to change it up. A hot power play can easily make a difference in a playoff series

 

[Daisy Jane]

DJ Smith maybe? Either way the instructions are probably the same.

DJ smith is defense/PK
Hiller is powerplay

 

[Superstar]

It really depends on your definition of a SUPERstar....Some would say the NHL has 5 of them, others would say there's 50.

- Crosby
- Ovechkin
- McDavid
- Malkin

Are the only guys that no one can argue against.....who's Matthews gonna replace?

Also, I'm aware that Matthews may have some advanced stats that are better then some names listed above.......but if we use your argument, you may notice.......

Even Strength points per 60 min:

1. McDavid 2.98 (134gms)
2. Barzal 2.85 (57gms)
3. Marchand 2.80 (119gms)
4. Malkin 2.80 (113gms)
5. Stamkos 2.67 (71gms)
6. Kucherov 2.66 (128gms)
7. Gaudreau 2.60 (126gms)
8. Leivo 2.52 (25gms)
9. Scheifele 2.50 (117gms)
10. Matthews 2.49 (128gms)
11. Getzlaf 2.47 (105gms)

Leivo is a ******* SUPERSTAR !

Now please give Leivo the respect he deserves & tell me he's a SUPERSTAR ! I mean....

..."the figures defend themselves"..."it's quite obvious he's a superstar"..."compare his output to the so called top centers"...

Disagree?

..."LOL"..."I guess you haven't seen much"...

These numbers are already off as pointed out by another poster...yes, let's take Leivo's limited sample size out of context...not to mention he's 24 years old and still not a regular player in the NHL...maybe you should tell Lou to sign him to a 7 year $49 million contract on those numbers. Yep, by your definition Leivo is a superstar and Matthews is only a "star in the making"...man, Matthews is not even a star, let alone a superstar...only a star in the making.

There are enough non-Leafs fans selling this team short all the time and now some are selling Matthews short too..."a star in the making"...that's laughable.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

DJ smith is defense/PK
Hiller is powerplay

thanks I didn't know that. I assume Babcock has influence but not the final say

 

[7even]

Don't like the poll. Don't think it's a joke that an HF poll didn't have him 10 because, I mean come on, it's HF. The poll section is basically a high school cafeteria. Can't take it seriously enough to get upset about it. But I do think he's starting to get underrated.

 

[drewjenks]

Your Leivo numbers refuted nothing...unless you like to take things and data out of context...his sample size is insufficient...and how old is he compared to Matthews? How many years in the pros has he had the chance to develop over Matthews...not to mention the figures you copied/pasted are off...lol. It's funny that I didn't have to pull numbers like the way you tried to do to realize how amazing Matthews numbers are as another poster pointed out...I just watched the way he plays, see how he scores and the goals and points he racks up in even strength with very limit powerplay time compared to other "superstars", as well as having significantly lower TOI than other "top" forwards in the NHL due to the way Babcock manages his icetime. The NHL is a finite league, with finite number of players, and a further constraint on the number of top players. The math details only further support Matthews superstar status.

OK Superstar....you win.

Matthews is pretty damn good. I mean, he's no Superstar like Leivo.....but some day. And I agree with your assessment on Babcock.....he needs to give Leivo more ice time.

Anyway, I'm glad you came around! Ya weren't making make much sense there for a while.

Enjoy the game......Superstar.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Don't like the poll. Don't think it's a joke that an HF poll didn't have him 10 because, I mean come on, it's HF. The poll section is basically a high school cafeteria. Can't take it seriously enough to get upset about it. But I do think he's starting to get underrated.

I say Matthews started to become underrated the moment the Leafs won the draft lottery in 2016, because he would get more praise if he was playing on another team.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Now I have seen it all. On a thread praising Barzal because of his third 5 point game, someone said he can be just as good or even better than Crosby and McDavid, along with being a better player than Matthews.

 

[drewjenks]

These numbers are already off as pointed out by another poster...yes, let's take Leivo's limited sample size out of context...not to mention he's 24 years old and still not a regular player in the NHL...maybe you should tell Lou to sign him to a 7 year $49 million contract on those numbers. Yep, by your definition Leivo is a superstar and Matthews is only a "star in the making"...man, Matthews is not even a star, let alone a superstar...only a star in the making.

There are enough non-Leafs fans selling this team short all the time and now some are selling Matthews short too..."a star in the making"...that's laughable.

Hey Superstar....Don't worry bro.

I already cleared it up with the other poster. I just had to let him know that I was being sarcastic. Those stats you were using as the crux of your argument.....man.....they really made Leivo look like a superstar. Hard to argue with those hard facts....so you got this

Matthews didn't look bad either. Not Leivo good.....but still not bad.

I'm glad you reinforced the point about your data so much....you know, that it can't be refuted & all....I needed that to see the light about Leivo. If you didn't remind me 5 or 6 times like you did, I probably wouldn't have realized what Superstar Leivo really is.

Anyways bro....you should really give Matthews more credit. I think he's better than a star in the making. Maybe one day you'll get that too.

Leivo though......WOW......You made me believe......what a Superstar !

 

[7even]

I say Matthews started to become underrated the moment the Leafs won the draft lottery in 2016, because he would get more praise if he was playing on another team.

He started being underrated then but was pretty fairly acclaimed last year. I think the injuries this year have taken him out of the spotlight. That and people really under-appreciate his goal scoring, somehow. Combination of where his goals come from and a lack of understanding just how elite his production is at evens. Plus a healthy portion of people who just want to see him fail, which is kind of pathetic in my opinion.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He started being underrated then but was pretty fairly acclaimed last year. I think the injuries this year have taken him out of the spotlight. That and people really under-appreciate his goal scoring, somehow. Combination of where his goals come from and a lack of understanding just how elite his production is at evens. Plus a healthy portion of people who just want to see him fail, which is kind of pathetic in my opinion.

Maybe the injuries are some reason why, however everything else where Matthews gets put down is down right insulting.

 

[Daisy Jane]

thanks I didn't know that. I assume Babcock has influence but not the final say

no problem

yah for the most part. Hiller was his guy in Detroit too.

 

[LeafsNation75]

no problem

yah for the most part. Hiller was his guy in Detroit too.

I think you meant to say Drew Miller.

Jonas Hiller played in Anaheim and Calgary.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think you meant to say Drew Miller.

Jonas Hiller played in Anaheim and Calgary.

Noo.
assistant coach Jim Hiller.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Noo.
assistant coach Jim Hiller.

Oh that's right my mistake. Sometimes I forget who the assistant coaches are because all we hear from is Babcock.

 

[Mats13]

It really depends on your definition of a SUPERstar....Some would say the NHL has 5 of them, others would say there's 50.

- Crosby
- Ovechkin
- McDavid
- Malkin

Are the only guys that no one can argue against.....who's Matthews gonna replace?

Also, I'm aware that Matthews may have some advanced stats that are better then some names listed above.......but if we use your argument, you may notice.......

Even Strength points per 60 min:

1. McDavid 2.98 (134gms)
2. Barzal 2.85 (57gms)
3. Marchand 2.80 (119gms)
4. Malkin 2.80 (113gms)
5. Stamkos 2.67 (71gms)
6. Kucherov 2.66 (128gms)
7. Gaudreau 2.60 (126gms)
8. Leivo 2.52 (25gms)
9. Scheifele 2.50 (117gms)
10. Matthews 2.49 (128gms)
11. Getzlaf 2.47 (105gms)

Leivo is a ******* SUPERSTAR !

Now please give Leivo the respect he deserves & tell me he's a SUPERSTAR ! I mean....

..."the figures defend themselves"..."it's quite obvious he's a superstar"..."compare his output to the so called top centers"...

Disagree?

..."LOL"..."I guess you haven't seen much"...

I'm not gonna get into the accuracy of the numbers, but are you so oblivious that you cannot see the massive flaws in sample size?

Leivo has played very few games and very few minutes, he is quite clearly an outlier.

Look at the rest of your top 10. Those are all superstars (with the exception of Barzal, who could easily be a superstar in the not too distant future).

Literally 10/11 names you've listed disagree with the point you're making. You chose the 1/11 that supported your argument. You did this in the same post that you basically called out other posters for selectively picking stats.

I mean you can't make this stuff up. Your own post is the only argument needed against your post.

Edit: nvm just realized this post is refuting another one. You should really quote the post you're refuting in the future.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Now someone else says Barzal is already better than Matthews, plus him getting assists is just as important. Matthews only scores 40 goals as a rookie and everyone wants to ignore that fact.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Oh that's right my mistake. Sometimes I forget who the assistant coaches are because all we hear from is Babcock.

it's okay i could have been clearer

 

[Mats13]

Now someone else says Barzal is already better than Matthews, plus him getting assists is just as important. Matthews only scores 40 goals as a rookie and everyone wants to ignore that fact.

It's best to just stay off the mainboards.

It's full of a bunch of inferiority complex driven keyboard warriors who act like they watch every player in the league.

Truth is they know very little about the Leafs, but they act like they're experts because that way they can trash the "average" 6th best team in the league.

 

[LeafsNation75]

it's okay i could have been clearer

Don't worry about it.

It's best to just stay off the mainboards.

It's full of a bunch of inferiority complex driven keyboard warriors who act like they watch every player in the league.

Truth is they know very little about the Leafs, but they act like they're experts because that way they can trash the "average" 6th best team in the league.

I think your right about that and I will take your advice.