Is Matthews underrated on these boards?

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It's best to just stay off the mainboards.

It's full of a bunch of inferiority complex driven keyboard warriors who act like they watch every player in the league.

Truth is they know very little about the Leafs, but they act like they're experts because that way they can trash the "average" 6th best team in the league.

eh they are usually good for a laugh. the last thing you should do is take them seriously though

 

[LeafFever]

Leaf players are in general horribly underrated.
But look, HF loves Phil Kessel now! Go figure...
That stat Matthews has in leading the entire league in ES goals since he entered the NHl is quite stunning. It is so hard to score 5 on 5 nowadays.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think he's well liked because he's a Toronto Maple Leaf, but if you look at all the Matthews vs. threads he's pretty highly regarded, however begrudgingly.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Leaf players are in general horribly underrated.
But look, HF loves Phil Kessel now! Go figure...
That stat Matthews has in leading the entire league in ES goals since he entered the NHl is quite stunning. It is so hard to score 5 on 5 nowadays.

I entirely disagree with all of this.

The only reason they love Kessel now (as opposed to when he was a leaf) is because he's now won two cups. He did amazingly in the playoffs, both cup wins. In fact, I believe the league wide consensus on Kessel was that you shouldn't build around him (like the Leafs were doing), but that he'd be the perfect final complimentary piece towards winning a cup (which is precisely what he was for the Pens... twice).

There's no bias/agenda against us. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. The league wide reputation for leaf fans is that we dramatically overrate our players, and then act like the world's against us when nobody else agrees. I think that's far closer to the truth.

In regards to Matthews, I think the entire league is pretty unanimous in thinking he's amazing. It's just that it's his sophomore year, and there's more he'll have to prove before he'll be considered elite league wide.

 

[Superstar]

In addition...for their respective teams, Matthews is currently tied 3rd with McDavid in 5v5 primary points behind MacKinnon and Kucherov...yeah, Matthews is just mediocre, what a plug.

 

[drewjenks]

I'm not gonna get into the accuracy of the numbers, but are you so oblivious that you cannot see the massive flaws in sample size?

Leivo has played very few games and very few minutes, he is quite clearly an outlier.

Look at the rest of your top 10. Those are all superstars (with the exception of Barzal, who could easily be a superstar in the not too distant future).

Literally 10/11 names you've listed disagree with the point you're making. You chose the 1/11 that supported your argument. You did this in the same post that you basically called out other posters for selectively picking stats.

I mean you can't make this stuff up. Your own post is the only argument needed against your post.

Edit: nvm just realized this post is refuting another one. You should really quote the post you're refuting in the future.

OMG I'm with you my man.

I was directly mocking a super rude guys criticism of my post & I was using his stats.

Leivo is not a superstar....clearly. All the dumb stuff I said is in quotes....because they are direct quotes from his comments to me.

Basically he thought that his stats were irrefutable in determining that Austin Matthews was a superstar. Leivo out performed him in those stats....which is a pretty good way to show they're very refutable. Austin Matthews is a star back that man deserved all the sass he got.

Good day sir

 

[Peiskos]

If there's one thing I've learned as a Leafs fan its that our players will always be underrated, it just comes with the territory of being the most popular and polarizing hockey team in the history of the world. It comes with a unique situation of having both the most fans and the most haters simultaneously.

 

[Legion34]

I entirely disagree with all of this.

The only reason they love Kessel now (as opposed to when he was a leaf) is because he's now won two cups. He did amazingly in the playoffs, both cup wins. In fact, I believe the league wide consensus on Kessel was that you shouldn't build around him (like the Leafs were doing), but that he'd be the perfect final complimentary piece towards winning a cup (which is precisely what he was for the Pens... twice).

There's no bias/agenda against us. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. The league wide reputation for leaf fans is that we dramatically overrate our players, and then act like the world's against us when nobody else agrees. I think that's far closer to the truth.

In regards to Matthews, I think the entire league is pretty unanimous in thinking he's amazing. It's just that it's his sophomore year, and there's more he'll have to prove before he'll be considered elite league wide.

Ummmmmm Kessel lost mainboard polls to cammelleri, strome. Eberle etc. It was a running gag. People called him a cancer etc. He was the most hated player here. Not a “complimentary peice”

If your theory is correct that people thought he was a finishing peice, and then did that in Pittsburgh..... why would opinions change?

 

[Semantics]

Found this on the Oilers board:



(Of course, they talked about a few players on the list, but Matthews was conveniently invisible to them.)

He looks to have a strong case for being the best 5v5 forward in the NHL. And that's with missing 10 games.

 

[LeafFever]

I entirely disagree with all of this.

The only reason they love Kessel now (as opposed to when he was a leaf) is because he's now won two cups. He did amazingly in the playoffs, both cup wins. In fact, I believe the league wide consensus on Kessel was that you shouldn't build around him (like the Leafs were doing), but that he'd be the perfect final complimentary piece towards winning a cup (which is precisely what he was for the Pens... twice).

There's no bias/agenda against us. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. The league wide reputation for leaf fans is that we dramatically overrate our players, and then act like the world's against us when nobody else agrees. I think that's far closer to the truth.

In regards to Matthews, I think the entire league is pretty unanimous in thinking he's amazing. It's just that it's his sophomore year, and there's more he'll have to prove before he'll be considered elite league wide.

Oh come on. Kessel was the most hated player on the main boards for 5+ years. He was mocked at every turn. And all those people now deny they hated Kessel. They all claim it was all from Leaf fans. And of course old threads are bumped up proving them wrong everyone ignores them.
It's not normal for a guy who can be PPG with Tyler Bozak as his centre to be crapped on that much. You honestly think in Arizona he would be mocked that much? Please see the ridiculous all-star game where he was picked last for proof. The next year Logan Couture was picked last and no one noticed.
And yes, Leaf fans are known to overrated their players. But is it because we do? Or is it because every Leaf player is underrated by the masses? The Matthews poll proves that.
There is an agenda against Toronto. Go travel the country and see what other media says about the city and team. There a horrible jealousy that quite frankly, is very embarrassing.
You seem to be taking a lot of your "Facts" from the Leaf haters. just because they tell you Leaf fans overrate their players does not make it fact. Please see how they value Leaf players on the main board to understand that they are in fact underrating Leaf players at every turn.

 

[LeafFever]

Found this on the Oilers board:



(Of course, they talked about a few players on the list, but Matthews was conveniently invisible to them.)

He looks to have a strong case for being the best 5v5 forward in the NHL. And that's with missing 10 games.

It's in now to knock the Hal/Larsson trade but the second it happened I thought it was a disaster. You do not trade a young first line star like Hall for a dfensensive Dman who is slow and provides no offense. Hall was always great with a PPG average-Even with Edmonton.
Chia has stripped the Oilers of a lot of depth and made them far slower with his moves. They might just be the slowest NHl team. No one notices because McDavid is perhaps the fastest player in the NHl. The rest of the lineup is painfully slow.

 

[bodechek]

I didn't vote, because I don't really care what other team's fans think about Matthews or the Leafs. The Toronto Maple Leafs have been a joke to them for the longest time because of the poor management of the team (making lateral moves and expecting to go forward). Now that we have a great player in Matthews and a good team with direction, they now have to find other things to pick on. I find it humorous that Sabre fans feel the Matthews has already hit the ceiling on his potential where as Eichel has yet to reach his. They are both in their early twenties and have yet to reach their full potential. But whatever they want to think so they can feel good about their team. I don't care, The Leafs look good, the Marlies are kicking ass in the AHL. This organization is finally going in the direction that I had hope they would for so many years. No more giving up on young talent for an experienced veteran that is so close to retirement.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Found this on the Oilers board:



(Of course, they talked about a few players on the list, but Matthews was conveniently invisible to them.)

He looks to have a strong case for being the best 5v5 forward in the NHL. And that's with missing 10 games.

yeah I'd probably consider him the best. he's tied for #1 in 5v5 goals and is 7th in points

 

[Morbo]

First of all he's a Leaf, so there's everything that comes with that on HFBoards.

but really, the fact that he is the player everyone wants to measure their guy against around here says it all.

 

[Semantics]

Chia has stripped the Oilers of a lot of depth and made them far slower with his moves. They might just be the slowest NHl team. No one notices because McDavid is perhaps the fastest player in the NHl. The rest of the lineup is painfully slow.

He had the easiest GM job in the NHL. Could have come in and literally done nothing and the Oilers would have been a top team now and for the next decade+ just from McDavid, the talent they had, and future draft picks.

It's almost like he was trying to sabotage the franchise. A conspiracy theorist might accuse him of being an agent of the Houston Oilers and not actually be all that crazy.

 

[Superstar]

Oh come on. Kessel was the most hated player on the main boards for 5+ years. He was mocked at every turn. And all those people now deny they hated Kessel. They all claim it was all from Leaf fans. And of course old threads are bumped up proving them wrong everyone ignores them.
It's not normal for a guy who can be PPG with Tyler Bozak as his centre to be crapped on that much. You honestly think in Arizona he would be mocked that much? Please see the ridiculous all-star game where he was picked last for proof. The next year Logan Couture was picked last and no one noticed.
And yes, Leaf fans are known to overrated their players. But is it because we do? Or is it because every Leaf player is underrated by the masses? The Matthews poll proves that.
There is an agenda against Toronto. Go travel the country and see what other media says about the city and team. There a horrible jealousy that quite frankly, is very embarrassing.
You seem to be taking a lot of your "Facts" from the Leaf haters. just because they tell you Leaf fans overrate their players does not make it fact. Please see how they value Leaf players on the main board to understand that they are in fact underrating Leaf players at every turn.

Yep, alot of folks have selective memory...even Healy, Hughson and Simpson on HNIC, so called professionals were taking shots at Kessel every chance they got, every Saturday night, when he was a Leaf...now, they suck up to him, praise him or keep their mouth shut.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Ummmmmm Kessel lost mainboard polls to cammelleri, strome. Eberle etc. It was a running gag. People called him a cancer etc. He was the most hated player here. Not a “complimentary peice”

If your theory is correct that people thought he was a finishing peice, and then did that in Pittsburgh..... why would opinions change?

It seemed to me that most non leaf fans on hfboards saw him precisely for what he was at the time, and rated him accordingly. A mediocre one dimensional winger who averaged 70 points who had the potential to be lethal in the proper situation.

I don't understand the confusion. When Kessel was mediocre, everybody thought that he was mediocre. When Kessel took the next step and started winning cups left right and centre, everybody acknowledged it. To claim that it's all just "anti leaf bias" is pure sillyness.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yep, alot of folks have selective memory...even Healy, Hughson and Simpson on HNIC, so called professionals were taking shots at Kessel every chance they got, every Saturday night, when he was a Leaf...now, they suck up to him, praise him or keep their mouth shut.

Kessel has now played 50 playoff games spanning two seasonss while putting up ppg post season numbers, leading to two cup wins.

Make no mistake... if Kessel wasn't putting Conn Smythe type numbers up two post seasons in a row, people wouldn't be singing such praises. And why would they?

In other words, leaf fans claiming that Kessel could be elite in deep playoff runs doesn't hold nearly the same weight as Kessel actually doing it..

It's very very possible that when everybody was calling Kessel one dimensional and lazy, it's because, at the time, he actually was one dimensional and lazy. Now that he's not, and he's putting up Conn Smythe numbers, people are applauding him. What is confusing about that?

 

[Gallagbi]

Kessel has now played 50 playoff games spanning two seasonss while putting up ppg post season numbers, leading to two cup wins.

Make no mistake... if Kessel wasn't putting Conn Smythe type numbers up two post seasons in a row, people wouldn't be singing such praises. And why would they?

In other words, leaf fans claiming that Kessel could be elite in deep playoff runs doesn't hold nearly the same weight as Kessel actually doing it..

It's very very possible that when everybody was calling Kessel one dimensional and lazy, it's because, at the time, he actually was one dimensional and lazy. Now that he's not, and he's putting up Conn Smythe numbers, people are applauding him. What is confusing about that?

The fact he was a good playoff performer pre, during and now post Leafs doesn't help this argument. He's a very similar player now to what he was in Toronto as well, he hasn't made many strides as a player since leaving, but his situation has certainly improved.

 

[Morbo]

Kessel has now played 50 playoff games spanning two seasonss while putting up ppg post season numbers, leading to two cup wins.

Make no mistake... if Kessel wasn't putting Conn Smythe type numbers up two post seasons in a row, people wouldn't be singing such praises. And why would they?

In other words, leaf fans claiming that Kessel could be elite in deep playoff runs doesn't hold nearly the same weight as Kessel actually doing it..

It's very very possible that when everybody was calling Kessel one dimensional and lazy, it's because, at the time, he actually was one dimensional and lazy. Now that he's not, and he's putting up Conn Smythe numbers, people are applauding him. What is confusing about that?

well, probably that being a point per game playoff performer for both Toronto and Boston didn't stop idiots from calling him one dimensional and lazy and a guy you couldn't win with.

whoops.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The fact he was a good playoff performer pre, during and now post Leafs doesn't help this argument. He's a very similar player now to what he was in Toronto as well, he hasn't made many strides as a player since leaving, but his situation has certainly improved.

Playing 7 playoff games his entire tenure as a leaf is hardly comparable to putting up Conn Smythe numbers two cup winning post seasons in a row.

Imagine that... put up Conn Smythe numbers while winning two cups in a row and... gasp... people will start thinking higher of the player. I still don't understand what's confusing about any of this.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

well, probably that being a point per game playoff performer for both Toronto and Boston didn't stop idiots from calling him one dimensional and lazy and a guy you couldn't win with.

whoops.

Yep. Playing well in 7 playoff games as a leaf spanning 6 seasons should have garnered him the precise same amount of league wide respect as winning two cups in a row while putting up Conn Smythe type numbers.

Just listen to yourself...

 

[Menzinger]

It seemed to me that most non leaf fans on hfboards saw him precisely for what he was at the time, and rated him accordingly. A mediocre one dimensional winger who averaged 70 points who had the potential to be lethal in the proper situation.

I don't understand the confusion. When Kessel was mediocre, everybody thought that he was mediocre. When Kessel took the next step and started winning cups left right and centre, everybody acknowledged it. To claim that it's all just "anti leaf bias" is pure sillyness.

Kessel was never “mediocre”.

He’s been one of the most consistent players in the NHL - his style and level of play with the Pens has been no different than he was a Leaf.

 

[Superstar]

Kessel has now played 50 playoff games spanning two seasonss while putting up ppg post season numbers, leading to two cup wins.

Make no mistake... if Kessel wasn't putting Conn Smythe type numbers up two post seasons in a row, people wouldn't be singing such praises. And why would they?

In other words, leaf fans claiming that Kessel could be elite in deep playoff runs doesn't hold nearly the same weight as Kessel actually doing it..

It's very very possible that when everybody was calling Kessel one dimensional and lazy, it's because, at the time, he actually was one dimensional and lazy. Now that he's not, and he's putting up Conn Smythe numbers, people are applauding him. What is confusing about that?

Kessel hasn't changed much...he's still pretty much who he is...an elite, game-breaking scoring 1st line winger with good vision and underrated passing ability. He was mocked and hated when he was a Leaf, surrounded by mostly a cast of misfits at the time and still produced at a high level...there was also unfair expectation placed on his shoulders as a winger because of what Burke gave up for him. If Nylander could produce like Kessel did with Bozak as his centre instead of Matthews, would you think he's a dud? Kessel was a PPG playoff performer even before he joined the Leafs, scored 36 goals in 70 games for the Bruins as a 21 year old, yet there were plenty who doubted that he could score anything without Savard. From the hate Kessel got, you would think he's a dud. It was objectivity out the window when Kessel was a Leaf.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Kessel was never “mediocre”.

He’s been one of the most consistent players in the NHL - his style and level of play with the Pens has been no different than he was a Leaf.

Let's not make it Kessel. Let's make it literally anybody else.

Imagine this player averaged 70 points a season but had "suspect" defensive play. Now, imagine that player gets traded, and then wins two cups in a row while putting up Conn Smythe numbers both post seasons. Wouldn't said player now have a much more positive reputation league wide? You know... due to the two cup wins and two Conn Smythe worthy post seasons? Wouldn't people, league wide, respect that player more? Or would that just be "leaf hate"?