Is Matthews underrated on these boards?

[Halla]

So with the current top C poll, its on pick 10 and Matthews wont make it.
the HF community has decided that the kid who leads the league in ES goals and is 2nd in total goals (behind only Kucherov) since becoming an NHLer, isnt one of the top 10 C in this league.

Mackinnon with career highs of 24g/63pts across 5 seasons is apparently better.
Kopitar is apparently so much better defensively that it makes up for the fact Matthews has 33 more goals than him since last year.
Now Barkov who is a fine 2 way player but has never gotten 25g or 6opts is getting strong consideration?

do you think HF boards are voting against him just because he is a leaf? it seems a lot of people jump to the next non leaf option after their guy has been picked

40g/69pts/+2 in 82 games as a rookie
25g/43pts/+23 in 46 games as a sophomore

all this getting less than 18 mins/night and sharing PP time evenly with Bozak

Click to read more...

 

[7even]

I think his goal scoring is getting overlooked but hey there's a lot of good centres

 

[93LEAFS]

Its just the main board overvaluing the most basic of statistics (try to get them on secondary assists or effects of ice time) and prior reputation.

That combined with certain posters who won't touch anything Leafs related leads to this. We know how valuable he is, and we wouldn't trade him for anything less than McDavid. And the only centers we'd obviously take over him for 1 season is basically Crosby, McDavid and Malkin. People forget how dramatically he has out performed in his 2 years in the league.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

he's underrated but the fact is someone deserving is going to be left off a list of the top 10 centers, because there's simply more than 10 deserving

 

[Mr Hockey]

I would put him in and around #10, there are some really good centers in this league.

 

[Liminality]

I think he'll gain the respect in a couple of years when he's done it consistently and is a bit older. They'll have no excuses to use by then. (although they'll try)
Doesn't help that he missed 10 games so his total points don't look as impressive as others.

 

[Cor]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-10th-best-centre.2445949/

Needs 15+ votes to be ranked 10th.. go!

 

[Halla]

I think he'll gain the respect in a couple of years when he's done it consistently and is a bit older. They'll have no excuses to use by then. (although they'll try)
Doesn't help that he missed 10 games so his total points don't look as impressive as others.

yet the same people had no trouble appointing mcdavid the best player in the world after half a rookie season.

 

[Nithoniniel]

MacKinnon is setting the world on fire right now, Kopitar is an absolute two-way beast, and Barkov is a top 5 center for me. I mean, if you list those guys, I don't have issues with Matthews being behind them on a list for now.

 

[firstemperor]

To be frank, Matthews is already better than a couple of the players above him. People just overstate pedigree when young stars like Matthews are exceptions to the rule. I give fans a pass for anointing McDavid the next one, because he is indeed the total package.

Leafs have been regularly losing 50-50, 40-60 votes on the main boards for a while now. A lot of that has to do with our board becoming apathetic towards venturing there, and a number of opposing fans making up the opposition quite regularly. That said, I don't really have a problem with certain guys being above him for now there, like MacK.

 

[613Leafer]

he's underrated but the fact is someone deserving is going to be left off a list of the top 10 centers, because there's simply more than 10 deserving

By definition that's wrong.

There can't be more than 10 top 10 centres in the league.

 

[Confucius]

Lists, who takes lists seriously? Just look at (TSN's?) list of NHLs. All time top 25. Jagr 2nd in all time points and longevity but he comes in at number 23.....

Oh and that list the (NHL?) put out about a top 100, Malkin didn't even make it.

 

[Bluelines]

MacKinnon is setting the world on fire right now, Kopitar is an absolute two-way beast, and Barkov is a top 5 center for me. I mean, if you list those guys, I don't have issues with Matthews being behind them on a list for now.

Sure MacKinnon is scoring but being hot right now does not make him a better center. If you look at the entirety of both of their games Matthews is by far better with out the puck, there isn't even a discussion, Matthews wins the who's a better defender.

On the offence, Matthews has scored more 5 on 5 than ANY player in the league since he joined, he has the 3rd most goals scored and that is with less PP time. From an offensive perspective Matthews is better.

So with the puck he is better and without the puck he is better, does that not make him a better player?

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

At the moment there are 24 other centers ahead of him point wise throughout the league so I don't think he is quite there yet obviously. Nonetheless, he is an allstar/calder winner and a first line center but there are others clearly ahead of him at this point. He is still young and will continue to shine. No big deal. I won't lose sleep over the ranking.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I voted Matthews since he's my favourite player on my favourite team.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Sure MacKinnon is scoring beign hot right now does not make him a better center. If you look at the entirety of both of their games Matthews is by far better with out the puck, there isnt even a discussion, Matthews wins the who's a better defender.

On the offence, Matthews has scored more 5 on 5 than ANY player in the league since he joined, he has the 3rd most goals scored and that is with less PP time. From an offensive perspective Matthews is better.

So with the puck he is better and without the puck he is better, does that not make him a better player?

I think he is. I'm just saying that I'm not surprised that MacKinnon is voted in before, as people tend to overreact to the current season. Or at least, that's what I meant. Going back, I can see that I framed it more like that's my own opinion.

As I see the centers of the league:

Tier 1: Crosby, McDavid
Tier 2: Malkin, Kopitar, Bergeron, Barkov
Tier 3: Tavares, Getzlaf, Matthews, Stamkos, Scheifele, Bäckström, Eichel, Seguin

 

[BertCorbeau]

Yes, but that's largely because her fanbases purely dislike the Leafs and won't acknowledge anything good they have. Kessel is a great example. Part of the reason is likely because of some of the louder voices on the Leafs sides of things being overtly boisterous.

Regardless I could care less about what other fanbases think especially about player rankings. There will always be bias. If Matthews' brings a cup to Toronto, that's enough for me.

 

[613Leafer]

Goals against / 60 minutes stats:

Bergeron: 1.069
Backstrom: 1.625
Matthews: 1.657
Kopitar: 1.778
Stamkos: 1.934
Couturier: 2.110
Monahan: 2.123
Toews: 2.132
M. Koivu: 2.142
Giroux: 2.198
Kuznetsov: 2.318
Seguin: 2.461
McDavid: 2.497
Draisaitl: 2.556
Crosby: 2.780
Barkov: 2.796
MacKinnon: 2.887
Pavelski: 2.888
Eichel: 2.910
Thornton: 2.959
Tavares: 3.094
Malkin: 3.119

And it's not like Matthews is benefiting from playing on an elite defensive team, he actually has the single best goals against relative to teammates stat on this entire list (-1.31), and is the only guy on the list other than Bergeron (-1.14) with a goals against relative to teammates greater than 1.00.

Stamkos for example despite having a great goals against / 60 overall, only has a goals against relative to teammates of -.03, meaning it's not really him that's good defensively, he just happens to play for an elite defensive team.

Matthews is putting up elite defensive numbers, while playing for an average defensive team. He has better goals against stats than Kopitar, Toews, M. Koivu, etc, guys regularly considered among the best defensive centres in the league.

Player Usage Charts - Hockey Abstract can get the numbers here.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Vote to get him over the top for 10th place !
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-10th-best-centre.2445949/

 

[Commander Clueless]

I think Matthews just needs more time to be considered top 10 by everyone. He's frankly a ridiculous player, and I don't think that's just my blue and white goggles.


I do find there's a significant anti-Leaf bias on these boards, but that's often more than compensated for by the bias from the army of Leaf fans on here.

I don't know if it's the chicken or the egg, but either way it makes main board discussion regarding the Leafs frustrating more often than not.

 

[ACC1224]

Why do people need validation from a bunch of strangers with Leaf envy?
Matthews is great, enjoy!

 

[TheTotalPackage]

To be honest, I think he is underrated on the main boards and slightly overrated on this Leafs board.

 

[PuckMagi]

I think he's the best player in the NHL right now... but that's just my opinion. The guy is a goal scoring machine and he would be even better with a better left winger.

I feel like he's getting less ice time and less PP time than other top centers in the league... yet he still scores a ton of goals.

 

[LeafGrief]

Give the boards time. They're notoriously slow to adapt to new players unless a guy plays for their own team. Matthews will keep making his case one game at a time.

But the polls section is total garbage and only good for getting your blood pressure up. According to that cesspool, every young player within 10 points of Marner or Nylander are better. Especially since people have started posting options for leafs fan, XYZ fan, neutral fan, it's an absolute gongshow and a who's who of ridiculous posters.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Who cares. Leaf envy has been around the internet ever since online message boards were invented. It’s just the rotating cast of 19 year old posters that change.