Is Makar the second best player in the league?

[JackSlater]

I doubt it. He's probably the best defenceman but I wouldn't put him second overall at this point.

 

[norrisnick]

I doubt it. He's probably the best defenceman but I wouldn't put him second overall at this point.

Why wouldn't you consider the best defenseman as in contention for #2 overall?

 

[JackSlater]

Why wouldn't you consider the best defenseman as in contention for #2 overall?

Because I believe that at least two players are better than he is, even if he is the best defenceman.

 

[LightningStorm]

I think he barely edges out Matthews for 2nd.

 

[Soundwave]

He's got a fair case.

I have it as

1. McDavid
2. Makar

3/4/5 is a toss up between Matthews, Draisaitl, MacKinnon

6. Josi
7. Kucherov
8. Vasilevsky
9. Shesterkin
10. Gaudreau

 

[dahrougem2]

They're the same tier and you can argue for either

Matthews has 2 rockets, 1 hart, 1 Ted Lindsay, 2 All-NHL team selections. He's scoring at a 62 goal, 106 point pace since Makar came into the league

The only player in the world you can "easily" argue over Matthews is McDavid. The rest have similar, or inferior trophy case and production

List the trophy case all you want. Makar dominates the game in a way Auston Matthews is simply incapable of doing on both ends of the ice.

 

[Buck Naked]

Why is he overrated?

I mean, have you looked at his point per game rates in the regular season and playoffs and where they stack up? He’d be sitting on two Norris’s in his first three years had he not been hurt in his second season.

I think it goes without saying that he has to achieve more and keep piling up the numbers, but he certainly has the potential to be one of the best defenceman of all-time.

Because not everyone does what you do. You're view of Makar seems sober enough where you recognize his potential to hang with the big boys one day. Some people go to great lenghts to claim he's the best D since Orr though, that's what makes him overrated in my book.

 

[Buck Naked]

But if Makar has more individual awards than any other defenseman in the history of the league through a players age 23 season, sans Orr, how exactly is he overrated if he is being compared to the all time greats. Obviously, there is still hopefully a long career to go, but when a player has a start to a career like this, they are going to be compared to the best. Happened with Crosby, and happened with McDavid.

Because his resume is tiny in comparison. Sure, he's done a lot at a young age, but who knows how well he holds up? Will he be in the race at 35+? He shouldn't be compared to players with 7 Norris Trophies, or players who were top 4 Norris candidates 17 years in a row until he's got some more hardware to his name. No one dispute that he's excellent, but one Norris is not enough for all time great status.

Bobby Orr played in a semi professional era that also had expansion so a bunch of minor league level goalies entering the league. Ran up stats in an era where the NHL wasn’t exactly a legit/pro league.

So now Makar is even better than Orr?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Josi had the most #1 votes for the Norris and would've won it if some voters didn't purposely leave him out of it entirely.

It's fine if you think he's the best but I don't know how this is "AINEC"

Josi also plays rover quite often. Makar is a better defenseman.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I wish we could see Makar on some shit team, it might give us a better feel for his dominance. He's grown up on a contender.

In a vaccuum, I think I would take him over Matthews. I know his contract doesn't play into this, but this man should fire his agent. Likely the most team-friendly contract in the league over the next 6 years.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Matthews 4 sure

 

[Taluss]

I think 2nd but I understand the arguments bumping him down

 

[triggrman]

I'm not a hard yes or hard no on this. I think he's a special player, but I don't know if he's already the 2nd best in the league. He's looking like a generational type player for sure.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I get what you’re saying I just think Cale has another level of skill that will lead him to be excessively elite year in and year out. Like he’s legit the best defensemen since Orr IMO.

Cale is different than Karlsson because he’s able to control both ends of the rink. EK always gave up a little too much.

Let’s settle down a bit. Way too early to have him above Bourque and Lidstrom

 

[leafsfan5]

List the trophy case all you want. Makar dominates the game in a way Auston Matthews is simply incapable of doing on both ends of the ice.

I mean, that's just not true lol. How do you think Matthews got those trophies? He dominates the game on a level that only a handful of players can match

 

[Coffey]

Let’s settle down a bit. Way too early to have him above Bourque and Lidstrom

lol I've seen people compare him to Orr already

 

[missionAvs]

Mcdavid is 2nd. Mack is first.

The hot takes thread is here bro. Your 2023 season hot takes!

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He's top 5.

 

[Muffin]

lol I've seen people compare him to Orr already

Yea that "people" is Gretzky.

 

[nbwingsfan]

lol I've seen people compare him to Orr already

I’ve seen this place say McDavid is only a good offensive guy and not someone you’ll ever win with.

This place says a ton of crazy things

 

[Hockeyholic]

No way he's the second best player in the world.


Because he's the best player in the world.

 

[nbwingsfan]

No way he's the second best player in the world.


Because he's the best player in the world.

What is a valid argument for him being above McDavid other than “Cup Win”?

 

[Coffey]

What is a valid argument for him being above McDavid other than “Cup Win”?

"Personal opinion"

 

[Haatley]

The hot takes thread is here bro. Your 2023 season hot takes!

A hot take is having the guy who just led his team to the Stanley cup as number one, who is the same guy that most rankings have at number 2? Okay, friend.

"Personal opinion"

What exactly is it that McDavid is so much better at? The 0.1 points per game difference?

Edit - didn't realize was about Makar.

 

[Killer Orcas]

I'm taking him 2nd in league quite easily. He's like a unicorn do everything 1D that's right handed and still hasn't even hit his prime defensively. I mean what more does someone need to do to be considered number 2 behind McDavid?